A Snare for the Innocent

I have a better clue as to what is happening after reading here about relationships, but I am sure the same problems have caught me unawares for not understanding the facts beforehand that have effected many before me.
I left Udon after my first visit a couple of years ago. I was married to a Thai wife then and I had commited a 2800 baht monthly that looked reasonable to meet the needs she and her son had at the time. I didn't have that much more income and when the US dollar exchange rate dropped I found myself living on a balance of $50 monthly back in the States. Being on SSD I ran into the most difficult time with SS and their work program, but that is neither here or there for the time being.
I was trapped in a year and a half of hard times while I was away. I endured a bit too much to get back here. I got back to Udon three months ago. Holding onto an income of 34000 baht currently and with the wife making less than 6000 baht more monthly, that is about nearly 40000 baht. The wife, while I was away did not do what we had commited the money towards but instead went out and bought a new truck without first negotiating with me back in the States. I returned here with a big truck payment, truck insurence and tax and to find out that we are sending her son to college now. She has us living at a cost level monthly of near 50000 baht and we have less than 40000 baht. We need new windows in the home, my inlaws and a man quoting the price just left my home and they are looking for 27000 baht. I have 22000 baht banked here for medical issues if they should arise. I spoke to my wife three months ago about cutting the cost of living but it is like talking into a void. A good amount of money she spends on odd stuff and if I tell her we must go to the market to buy a little bit that we need, the cart gets loaded up with double the amount that I had intended to purchase.
I can't seem to effectively communicate that we can't keep up this way to her. I don't think that the pain in the neck time that I had back in the States to try to hold onto things for us here can even penitrate her mind. That's OK I can't expect it to.
I have to make decisions, like whether to stay here or not and how to handle the situation. I am handling it all well, that is I am stable and used to having allot of troubles, but there are so many other things pressing in on me with the complexes that getting older bring. There seems to be no work available here and even if I spend money on a TEFL course then I am in a catch 20 with not being able to work more than 45 hours a month legally according to SSD laws and even if I was able to teach (which I don't really want to) then the maximum pay would only be enough for a single to live on modestly.
Just thought to share this here since I have been reading the board as a member for a while. I am of the mind that my wife is probably rather innocent considering what I have learned about Thai culture, their thought and relationship to the Western Husband.
If I should decide to try to visa her to the US we have another set of problems on top.

sadly some T/G think farlongs have a well full of money that never runs dry
there are some things I would suggest but it would be a waste of my time since you would not listern to them. I have posted some saying for farlongs here are a few
never give them more than you can afford to lose because you will lose it
if you can not wear it and it does not fit in your suitcase you don't own it
if you buy expensive item in the T/G name finance it for the long term this way if she screws up you walk away she is stuck paying for it or loses it this includes car & house
you know the answer to your problem the qustion is are you willing to make that step and do it

[quote="aznyron"]if you buy expensive item in the T/G name finance it for the long term this way if she screws up you walk away she is stuck paying for it or loses it this includes car & house
/quote]

Just thought this valid point warranted reiteration !!!

I don't envy you, I'm lucky my wife never seems to fail to live within the budget. That being said it is more then your income.

I would think it very difficult to make truck paymets Ect and pay fro university.

Only seems to be two answers and maybe combining them would help. One is you have to work , do so quietly and no more then you can tolerate. Secondly you can't control the wife put you can control your part of the money. You have to say no. Be willing to take the yeeling tha will go wiht it.

Thai's are used to a norm to spending what they have and no look for tomorrow, uip obviusly understand that, but that doesn't mean you have to buy into it. You have to take care of yourself here, very few Thai families are going to help a farrang in trouble. But it does happen. Personally I would not want to find out if my wifes family would or would not.

In the end the ball is in your court and it is up to you to do what you need to do.

Just a few thoughts here and there.

You don't say how long you have been married, or lived together before you went back to the USA. If you have not been living with her, it is difficult to know whether her motives are genuine and she's just incapable of managing money well, or if she is trying to squeeze the most out of you.

You could try bringing home the harsher realities, by for example:

Saying that you will have to sell the truck to pay for the windows (Don't let on about your medical emergencies budget). Unless perhaps she can think of another way of financing them.

Ask her what she would think or do, if on your way back you had bought a new truck without consulting her and you now have two, on monthly finance!. Maybe you could say you have!

When she goes shopping, give her a pre-determined (pre-agreed) amount of money e.g. 500 or 1000 or 1500 baht, and then stay out of the way when she shops and pays.

Are you thinking of leaving her? It does sound like you need to put your foot on the (her) ball, and get a very clear understanding about what is and isn't acceptable.

You could ask her to help you work through the math (ensuring that you don't over-state, or preferably do understate your income). Though whilst she might see and agree with the conclusions, it may end up just being "water off a duck's back"!!

I agree very much with Bob, patriot and aznyron's comments.

I am making notes on the replies.
Thanks, I remember reading some of these things on udonmap earlier, it has been a help in understanding this whole situation better.
This marriage is going near the three years mark, I don't mistrust my wife but I have learned her to be grabbing a little too hard at the economics without the mutual understanding of things, that is to say without much concern for mine or our own personal well being.
We will have to take time again to talk about things, something I find that the Thai wife would rather keep at a minimal, one reason why I have been dealing rather patiently with it all. I see the bottom coming up, she doesn't have the perspective but I will admit that the woman is not totally unreasonable. She seems to have somewhat of a good mind and intention for things in spite of her own mistakes and desires. In the background the fear of coming up at a total loss of the gain on the economic security probably leads to the release of some tensions on her part and that is to be expected. I feel sad for her that she would have to face the loss of anything materially and would much rather see her keep the little she has but you just can't give what you don't have. I have learned to make due on minimal myself. She knew my circumstances economically from the begining and did conive a bit as it has become visable (basic human manipulations for gain and self interest) but our stature and minds are set in different uderstandings of reality. There is nothing one can do about some things, you can't change any one, one could only hope to be patient with another.
I am going to keep a perspective on the answers coming in from you people and watch over myself.
I'll be back to read the replies over tomorrow. I am surprized that I have a connection to my network tonight (TOT). It is down allot of the time, they gave away free modems with the purchase of their high speed line and the phone line is nearly always too busy.

At the risk of exposing too much of my personal life, let me relate this to you:

In a previous life I had a GF who was very loyal and I believe loved me very much, but she kept on asking for too much, - well for things I couldn't at that time afford or give. - Land, a house, a shop to sell clothes from and other things - not all at once to be fair. Then later she told me how her friend had a boyfriend from Korea who had bought her several houses and land. I would explain to her that if I didn't keep enough money in my Thai bank account, I wouldn't be able to renew my visa to stay here any more. But that didn't seem to have the desired affect.

After this went on for a while, one day in desperation, I politely and quietly said to her something like: " I am sorry, but I think it better that you look for new boyfriend, one who can give you the things you want, one that can buy you land and 6 houses etc etc, because I am afraid I cannot give you those things". And I gave her some additional information about my then current financial limitations. For about 20 minutes, she was sad and upset. Then a bit later, she said to me: "Ok don't worry about the house, or the land, or even getting married. I just want to stay/be with you. Don't worry". I believe she even spoke of her getting a job!

That told me a heck of a lot, - About her feelings for me and her true priorities. Ok maybe those things would have crept back on the Agenda again later.

What I think I am suggesting is that maybe by calling her bluff, you might get her to understand your situation, or at least stop her asking or taking too much.

arjay wrote:At the risk of exposing too much of my personal life, let me relate this to you:

In a previous life I had a GF who was very loyal and I believe loved me very much, but she kept on asking for too much, - well for things I couldn't at that time afford or give. - Land, a house, a shop to sell clothes from and other things - not all at once to be fair. Then later she told me how her friend had a boyfriend from Korea who had bought her several houses and land. I would explain to her that if I didn't keep enough money in my Thai bank account, I wouldn't be able to renew my visa to stay here any more. But that didn't seem to have the desired affect.

After this went on for a while, one day in desperation, I politely and quietly said to her something like: " I am sorry, but I think it better that you look for new boyfriend, one who can give you the things you want, one that can buy you land and 6 houses etc etc, because I am afraid I cannot give you those things". And I gave her some additional information about my then current financial limitations. For about 20 minutes, she was sad and upset. Then a bit later, she said to me: "Ok don't worry about the house, or the land, or even getting married. I just want to stay/be with you. Don't worry". I believe she even spoke of her getting a job!

That told me a heck of a lot, - About her feelings for me and her true priorities. Ok maybe those things would have crept back on the Agenda again later.

What I think I am suggesting is that maybe by calling her bluff, you might get her to understand your situation, or at least stop her asking or taking too much.

that was a great perspetive on any Relationship


since i am still a bit new on all this (just finished my first year at WBU)
i have not had any real problems yet, and frankly i hope i never do, but i do want a complete idea of what may or may not lay ahead

thats the way they are , if you go to tesco's they want to buy up everything in sight !
they have no concept of thrift or economic management. they live for today and to hell with tomorrow. For most guys this means they get bled dry so its up 2 you how you play it.

I will not disagree with above but will ask a question. How does perception figure in here? What does that mean.

I have read on here that the going salary is B6000 with the high end being B10000 per month for even a family.

Now ask your self, take your current monthly income, multiply it by 4 and ask if you would not go out and buy the things you only dreamed of before.

I think (notice I said think) most of us would act in a similar way.

Does that help with the question at hand. Maybe! Sometimes looking through someone elses eyes helps you get a clearer picture.

I will not disagree with above but will ask a question. How does perception figure in here? What does that mean.

Noun 1. perception - the representation of what is perceived; basic component in the formation of a concept
percept, perceptual experience
internal representation, mental representation, representation - a presentation to the mind in the form of an idea or image
figure - a unitary percept having structure and coherence that is the object of attention and that stands out against a ground
ground - a relatively homogeneous percept extending back of the figure on which attention is focused
pattern, form, shape - a perceptual structure; "the composition presents problems for students of musical form"; "a visual pattern must include not only objects but the spaces between them"
visual percept, visual image - a percept that arises from the eyes; an image in the visual system
2. perception - a way of conceiving something; "Luther had a new perception of the Bible"
conceptualisation, conceptuality, conceptualization - an elaborated concept
3. perception - the process of perceiving
basic cognitive process - cognitive processes involved in obtaining and storing knowledge
perceptual constancy, constancy - (psychology) the tendency for perceived objects to give rise to very similar perceptual experiences in spite of wide variations in the conditions of observation
detection, sensing - the perception that something has occurred or some state exists; "early detection can often lead to a cure"
beholding, seeing, visual perception - perception by means of the eyes
auditory perception, sound perception - the perception of sound as a meaningful phenomenon
aesthesis, esthesis, sensation, sense datum, sense experience, sense impression - an unelaborated elementary awareness of stimulation; "a sensation of touch"
somaesthesia, somatesthesia, somatic sensation, somesthesia - the perception of tactual or proprioceptive or gut sensations; "he relied on somesthesia to warn him of pressure changes"
tactile sensation, tactual sensation, touch sensation, feeling, touch - the sensation produced by pressure receptors in the skin; "she likes the touch of silk on her skin"; "the surface had a greasy feeling"
4. perception - knowledge gained by perceiving; "a man admired for the depth of his perception"
cognition, knowledge, noesis - the psychological result of perception and learning and reasoning
discernment, perceptiveness - perception of that which is obscure
insight, penetration - clear or deep perception of a situation
cognizance - range or scope of what is perceived
5. perception - becoming aware of something via the senses
sensing
sensory activity - activity intended to achieve a particular sensory result
looking, looking at, look - the act of directing the eyes toward something and perceiving it visually; "he went out to have a look"; "his look was fixed on her eyes"; "he gave it a good looking at"; "his camera does his looking for him"
listening, hearing - the act of hearing attentively; "you can learn a lot by just listening"; "they make good music--you should give them a hearing"
lipreading - perceiving what a person is saying by observing the movements of the lips
tasting, taste - a kind of sensing; distinguishing substances by means of the taste buds; "a wine tasting"
smelling, smell - the act of perceiving the odor of something



per·spec·tive (pər-spěk'tĭv) Pronunciation Key
n.

A view or vista.
A mental view or outlook: "It is useful occasionally to look at the past to gain a perspective on the present" (Fabian Linden).
The relationship of aspects of a subject to each other and to a whole: a perspective of history; a need to view the problem in the proper perspective.
Subjective evaluation of relative significance; a point of view: the perspective of the displaced homemaker.
The ability to perceive things in their actual interrelations or comparative importance: tried to keep my perspective throughout the crisis.
The appearance of objects in depth as perceived by normal binocular vision.

The relationship of aspects of a subject to each other and to a whole: a perspective of history; a need to view the problem in the proper perspective.
Subjective evaluation of relative significance; a point of view: the perspective of the displaced homemaker.
The ability to perceive things in their actual interrelations or comparative importance: tried to keep my perspective throughout the crisis.
The technique of representing three-dimensional objects and depth relationships on a two-dimensional surface.

adj. Of, relating to, seen, or represented in perspective.


[Middle English, science of optics (influenced by French perspective, perspective), from Medieval Latin perspectīva (ars), feminine of perspectīvus, optical, from perspectus, past participle of perspicere, to inspect : per-, per- + specere, to look; see spek- in Indo-European roots.]

per·spec'tiv·al adj., per·spec'tive·ly adv.

(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
perspective

c.1380, "science of optics," from O.Fr. perspective, from M.L. perspectiva ars "science of optics," from fem. of perspectivus "of sight, optical" from L. perspectus, pp. of perspicere "inspect, look through," from per- "through" + specere "look at" (see scope (1)). Sense of "art of drawing objects so as to give appearance of distance or depth" is first found 1598, influenced by It. prospettiva, an artists' term. The fig. meaning "mental outlook over time" is first recorded 1762.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper
WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This perspective

noun
1. a way of regarding situations or topics etc.; "consider what follows from the positivist view" [syn: position]
2. the appearance of things relative to one another as determined by their distance from the viewer

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.

actualy answered your own question here
but

Does that help with the question at hand. Maybe! Sometimes looking through someone elses eyes helps you get a clearer picture

sorry...just being a bit of a Smart @$$

I'll offer my 2 cents.

Budget, budget, budget. It seems you understand the concept, the wife doesn't.

Take control of the money that you bring in. Offer to cover the living and eating expenses.

Eat from Thai markets and street venders as much as possible. Do little or no Thai cooking at home. Farang food is usually cheaper at home than at the farang restaurants.

She bought the truck. Let her take care of it. She's sending the boy to college. Let her take care of it. If one or both of these have to go, let her decide.

Give her a weekly stipend to supplement her own income. With your income, no more than 2,000 baht a week. Give it to her on the same day each week, or split it over 2 days a week. Her money management skills are limited and you can help a little this way.

Save at least 10% of your income each month. Split it for long term savings and unplanned expenses that exceed your income.

If you're unable to ride a motorcycle, buy an old pickup or car for transportation as her truck will probably be gone soon, as it should be.

Most Thai people are raised in poverty mentality and it doesn't include future thinking or budgeting. Money today is for today, not tomorrow. It's a fairly simple model to understand, but very difficult to change. If you do not take control of the finances the money will continue to be used until it is gone.

Don't give up, just take control. It's your money after all.

I think UdonExpat is right on.

Early on, my TW had absolutely no discipline about handling money. If she had it, she spent it. It was a source of constant fights between us.

After a few months, I began giving her a weekly allowance. She has to buy all of our groceries, meals, clothes and household items with the money she has. More importantly, any money she gives to her family also comes from that budget.

Our arguments about money have virtually disappeared and she has become a damn good money manager.

Giving your TW or TGF a allowance and strictly enforcing it is probably the best advise I can offer.

well here were I put my foot in my mouth as usual i would run not walk but run away from her
but that was my first answer but I knew you would not listen to me
it not about being poor it about GREED
just ask your self what would she do if you were not in the picture ?
like many of us I came to Thailand to find a understanding & loyal wife
well I was duped the first time around but I did not marry her
lost money but the thing I lost most was my dream of being together in a happy home
she destroyed it by her greed.
what did she do she saw I was a fool with my money giving her almost every thing she wanted so she decided to find another fool like me and she did some guy from the UK well like all stupid greed women she wrote him a email and mailed it to me
or maybe she did it to get rid of me
but I did find the guy from the UK and emailed him now she has no one from what I heard last now I have a women who is more frugal than I am and she comes from a poor family she want me to SAVE money for our future I laugh because my future is over all I have is today
my answer is wise up and look else were being a door mat will not work for the long term
it just a short term fix which will only destroy you in the end
hate me if you want but I only gave you my honest answer