Another electrocution and who cares attitude!

This is Thailand , land of "Sabai Sabai" , personally i am impressed that Thailand is much safer than i expected, but sorry to hear about the villager

fdimike wrote:I strongly urge everyone reading this forum to buy one of these cheap little polarity checking electricians screwdrivers and check your outlets. An ungrounded, incorectly grounded or revversed polarity outlet is a potential major health hazard. It is especially dangerous here in Thailand because most people walk around their home barefoot.

Unlike most here, I am an electrician and I have seen these screwdriver neons that are faulty and can connect you directly to the supply. Be advised to leave electrical to those who are trained not those who might think "they know a fair bit about electricity". Polarity of the outlet Active and Neutral makes no difference. Of course the earth should be connected to the earth pin but you can be assured that a cheap little neon screwdriver definetely is not the way to check the system here. Where there is a switch controlling the outlet, the switch must be in the Active conductor.
From what I have seen in Thailand, the MEN (multiple earth neutral) does not appear to be enforced at each and every consumer as it should be for proper fault protection. Sticking an earth rod in the ground and connecting earths from outlets is a start but it still results in a high impedence path back to the transformer star point from the earth rod under fault or "leaky" conditions. Meaning there is still a high risk of electrocution leading to a fatality as the person in contact with the faulty piece of equipment is in pararrel with this fault circuit. Given Thailand's electrical methods, Safety switches will give you the required protection.
Safety switch ....earth leakage circuit breaker...... all the same thing just different names. There are however, some which are exclusively for detecting earth leakage and will trip accordingly at 10, 30 or even 50 milliamps although the common requirement is one at 30 milliamp. Others incorporate a circuit breaker to detect overcurrent as well and these are sometimes known as "combo's" for obvious reasons. We use quite sophisticated equipment to check earthing systems and the operation of safety switches and do not use cheap little neon screwdrivers.
Get a safety switch fitted by an electrician.

I have this site bookmarked and I use for reference only. Maybe it'll help someone gain a better understanding of electrical installations.

http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/

I guess I've misunderstood the post. I thought the problem was a live wire out in a farm field that was not properly insulated, so when the man's body came in contact with it, he was electrocuted. This has nothing to do with grounding other than if the circuit been on a GFI or Safe-T-Cut he would have probably not been killed.

I still maintain that a live wire on most farms anywhere in the world is not likely to be on a GFI circuit and this accident could have happened anywhere in the world. It was the improper insulation of the wire that was the problem.

When I built my house I had it properly grounded and had a whole system Safe-T-Cut installed. I did this because of the primitive state of electrical service work and servicemen. To expect largely uneducated servicemen to read installation instructions is folly in the extreme. Most electricians are little more than ignorant men willing to risk their lives to earn a few baht. When I did outlet checks in my home more than half of them were not properly grounded and had to be fixed. The electrician thought it was not important, but did it because he wanted to get paid. There are no enforced electrical building codes, no licensing of electricians, and no one but yourself to be responsible. If you rent the situation is even more dangerous.

UdonExpat wrote:I still maintain that a live wire on most farms anywhere in the world is not likely to be on a GFI circuit and this accident could have happened anywhere in the world. It was the improper insulation of the wire that was the problem.

I've got to disagree with this statement. My hobby farm had ALL POWER circuits protected and I'm guessing that most farms in Aust at least are the same. Also in Aust we do not normally place an RCD on lighting circuits and in my case I did not have my refrigerator on an RCD circuit either.

If the RCD was installed on the main isolator board then all areas should be protected even the victims dodgy wiring down in the shed that killed him. As we know most all village installations only have one isolator and one fuse or CCT breaker between the meter and consumer outlets, lights etc.

My home here in Thailand is split into 5 separate circuits and because they do not have a MEN (Multible Earth Neutral) here I used dual pole CCT Breakers as I had measured my neutral a more than 50 volts above earth on occasions. The star point of our stepdown transformer, which is about 500 meters away, is the only point at which the Neutral gets bonded to Earth. The two lighting circuits are not on RCD. (My choice).

I have 3 x 2 meter copper coated earth stakes all bonded and tied to a large earth bar. My power distribution is via 2.5 mm 2c + e TPS (Thermo Plastic Sheathed) cable. The lighting is 1.5mm 2c +e TPS cable. I did not let the Thais touch anything electrical or plumbing when building the place.

Well, I'm impressed with the safety in Australia. My US farm experience is 40 years old, so perhaps the same is now going in there. The developed countries to keep trying to make things safer.

Bluejets

While I've already admitted I am not an electrician nor an electrical engineer my father was a building contractor which exposed me at an early age to much of what I posted here.

I do know that the polarity of an electrical outlet IS important and can be potentially lethal if incorrectly wired. I've already given a simple explanation using a lamp. There is an entire country called the United States which has mandated polarized outlets in ALL construction for many years now to help prevent lethal shocks. The same applies to electrical extension cords. All electrical extension cords come with polarized outlets. It is a part of the electrical code in the US which is stringently enforced. This same country also mandates double insulation in power tools for the same reason and GFCI breakers in all hair dryers.

I did not advocate using the neon lighted screwdriver for anything other than checking polarity. It's simple to use and accurate for CHECKING POLARITY. I would not use it for anything more than that unless you happen to need a small screwdriver. If you're worried about the reliability of the screwdriver buy 2 different brands (they're cheap enough) and double check your work. In either case the screwdriver is insulated thereby protecting the user from a shock.

Additionally, GFCI circuit breakers are mandated in ALL wet areas both inside and outside the construction in the US because there were many electrical deaths in these areas despite the fact that most people in the US wear shoes inside unlike here in Thailand. Going barefoot on a tile/concrete floor or ground amplifies the risk potential for an electrical shock.

Grounded (3 wire) outlets are also mandated in ALL construction in the US. A ground rod is driven into the ground close to the main circuit panel of the construction to provide safety for the occupants.

HI Bluejet, I have watched some of the sparkies around the base I work at in Iraq doing the grounding and bonding of buildings. They do have some fancy meters to test their work. Takes the guess work out if you know what you are doing.

Maybe fdimike is comparing the US 110 voltage to the 220 voltage of the rest of the world. If it makes a difference.

I was reading in the link provided by Papaguido, the section on earthing (grounding on our side of the pond), it said that, "More than 1 main earth rod can be dangerous unless they are spaced from each other correctly." ??? So, if one is good, two isn't necessarily better? I was thinking that, my house being a steel frame (if it ever gets to being a house), I was going to drive a ground rod to ground the frame itself. Or should I just ground it to the main ground rod?

Farang1 wrote:Maybe fdimike is comparing the US 110 voltage to the 220 voltage of the rest of the world. If it makes a difference.

Whilst in Aust it's 240 Volts single phase and 415 Volts 3 phase hence the requirement for strict safety regulations. 110 volts in the US might give you a good kick in the arse but 240 really does some damage. Maybe that is why udonexpats US farm is different.

Farang1 wrote:HI Bluejet, I have watched some of the sparkies around the base I work at in Iraq doing the grounding and bonding of buildings. They do have some fancy meters to test their work. Takes the guess work out if you know what you are doing.

Maybe fdimike is comparing the US 110 voltage to the 220 voltage of the rest of the world. If it makes a difference.

I was reading in the link provided by Papaguido, the section on earthing (grounding on our side of the pond), it said that, "More than 1 main earth rod can be dangerous unless they are spaced from each other correctly." ??? So, if one is good, two isn't necessarily better? I was thinking that, my house being a steel frame (if it ever gets to being a house), I was going to drive a ground rod to ground the frame itself. Or should I just ground it to the main ground rod?

Yes, the meters are necessary and applying 240 or 110 to any installation still warrants the same amount of caution and respect so no difference there. I think fdimike needs to reassess whatever he has been told or read because most of it is rubbish.
Earth grids which use a system of rods to improve the conductivity are usually spaced at 2 rod lengths apart wholly and soley because it works best this way. They are connected together usually by welding the joint and then burying the bare copper conductor and the rods in a grid pattern.There is no danger in using multiple rods that are bonded together but no point in a domestic situation when single rod is used with men system.
Bonding your house frame to the main earth is usual practise here. I would NOT attempt to use multiple rods connected to different pieces all over the place. I would again stress the point about using a safety switch, especially in Thailand. Use on lights, power, the lot.