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Another touch of arrogance from US Senators

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Re: Another touch of arrogance from US Senators

Postby BobHelm » July 25, 2010, 9:03 pm

Just a fact instead of Tex's usual rubish based on his xenophobia.
Any serious details about the posibility of UK Government involvement in this release & the posibility of it being due to requests from BP have come from The Sunday Times.
Today's Sunday Times will not make good reading for any American who believes that the release came as a surprise to the current American administration. It did not. Letters were exchanged before this release happened between Alex Salmond (The leader of the Scottish Parliment) and Richard LeBaron, debuty head of the US Embassy in London, on August 12th. 2009 a week before Megrahi was released.
In LeBaron's letter he says...
Nevertheless, if Scottish authorities come to the conclusion that Megrahi must be released from Scottish custody, the US position is that conditional release on compassionate grounds would be far preferable alternative to prisoner transfer


Feigning surprise & attempting to divert away from the truth of the matter - indeed shameful by those in positions of power within the USA... :shock:
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Re: Another touch of arrogance from US Senators

Postby patriot » July 25, 2010, 9:37 pm

Texpat WILL write:

" ... well what do you expect from a *****, Nationalistic pamphlet. Shame on the British for misleading the american public.
Shameful .. "

There Tex I've saved you the bother.

Rule Britannia!!
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Re: Another touch of arrogance from US Senators

Postby jackspratt » July 25, 2010, 9:43 pm

A small point of correction patriot.

The Times is actually the product of an "American", once removed from Oz - better known as the "Dirty Digger".

But I doubt they will bring this inconvenient revelation up up on Rupert's baastard love child, the "fair and balanced" Faux News. :D
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Re: Another touch of arrogance from US Senators

Postby arjay » July 26, 2010, 12:14 am

The real arrogance is when Britons come out with this incredulous faux outrage at the US Senate -- in light of their own government's colossal bungling.

No it's not Texpat, the real arrogance comes from the complete non-sensical and provocative shite that you post! And that's a fact. There is no substance in what you post. I'm also sure you don't really believe any of it yourself. [-X You just like to try and wind others up. Do us all a favour and post something of meaningful and genuine substance, provable or based on real material, rather than emotive rubbish. ;) You do yourself no credit whatsoever. Shame be upon you. [-X
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Re: Another touch of arrogance from US Senators

Postby Texpat » July 26, 2010, 12:51 am

Release mass murderers you convicted claiming they're going to die (wink, wink)-- on humanitarian (what?) grounds ...
Foul the entire Gulf of Mexico because of slipshod workmanship and reckless safety measures ...

But claim the real shame comes from people involved wanting answers -- now that's arrogance of the worst degree.

Astonishing.
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Re: Another touch of arrogance from US Senators

Postby Bandung_Dero » July 26, 2010, 7:01 am

This adds a new twist!

Britain's Sunday Times has published leaked documents which show that the Obama administration was prepared to accept the conditional release of Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi.

The US government has condemned the Scottish government's decision to release Libyan national Megrahi last August, amid questions about what role lobbying by oil giant BP played in the decision.

Scottish authorities say the decision was made on compassionate grounds because Megrahi was suffering from terminal cancer. Scottish authorities at the time said he was expected to have only three months to live, but he is still alive nearly a year later.

Now The Sunday Times has obtained a letter from the US embassy to Scottish first minister Alex Salmond, written a week before the release, which appears to show that Washington was prepared to accept at least a conditional release.

While wanting Megrahi behind bars, the letter says a conditional release would be "far preferable" to a prisoner transfer to Libya.

The embassy wrote that making Megrahi live in Scotland would mitigate a number of strong US concerns.

So far there has been no response to the leak from the White House.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010 ... ion=justin
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Re: Another touch of arrogance from US Senators

Postby nkstan » July 26, 2010, 7:29 am

I wonder if there was ''some''doubt about his being guilty???Therefore ''some'' relief of conscious by having a humanitarian excuse! :oops:

As far as I'm concerned,he was convicted and should have served his sentence until death!The only compassionate role,once it was determined that he was supposedly dying,would have been to expedite his appeal process!

What really amazes me that amongst the liberals that think there is an ability to talk and negotiate the problems between the West and Islamic governed countries is their inability to recognize the meaning behind the ''Heroes Welcome'' given to this guy by the Gov't leadership and the People of Libya,giving no credit to the ''humanitarian'' release actions of the West! :evil:

All this furor about the USA knowing about the release ahead of time,is deflective rhetoric!Obviously the USA position was ''under house arrest or monitored release'' in Scotland,for Humaniarian reasons as he was supposedly on his death bed! [-X

Humanitarian concepts are all BS anyway,the World people,in general,especially political arms of the people are self centered and basicly selfish in their thinking and actions,anything else is diplomatic pandering to gain those selfish desires! :roll:
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Re: Another touch of arrogance from US Senators

Postby UdonExpat » July 26, 2010, 11:09 am

The US government opposed Al-Megrahi's release. It seems the writing was already on the wall concerning his release when the US Embassy wrote the letter 8 days prior, so the letter included a preference for staying in Scotland rather than being released to Libya.

The news media are taking many slants with this, so it's possible to find articles to support different points of view.

This one is from Fox News. I'm a bit surprised to find it there as Fox is usually among the first to present facts in a way to do the most damage to the present administration.

Although Fox News claims the contents of the memo have been published I've been unable to find any such publication and the US Government is reported as refusing to publish the memo.

White House Reportedly Preferred Scotland to Libya for Released Lockerbie Bomber

Published July 25, 2010
FoxNews.com

The Obama administration told Scottish officials last August that, although it opposed any release of the Lockerbie bomber, it would rather see him released in Scotland than transferred to a Libyan prison, according to a secret memo obtained by The Sunday Times in London.

The publication of the memo's contents comes just days after President Obama, at a press conference with British Prime Minister David Cameron, said "all of us ... were surprised, disappointed and angry" by the Scottish government's decision to free Abdel Baset al-Megrahi last year.

Al-Megrahi's release last year was approved based on "compassionate" grounds, on the belief that he had months left to live. The case has sparked renewed controversy recently on reports that al-Megrahi may survive much longer.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07 ... latestnews


The Guardian first disclosed the memo in August 2009, but apparently didn't publish it. So who knows?

This is from the Guardian's original article disclosing the memo. (Al-Megrahi's family was living in a home in Scotland purchased by Libya.)

It also emerged that MacAskill had formally asked the US embassy in London for permission to release a letter written earlier this month, which said the US government believed that giving Megrahi compassionate release was "far preferable" to transferring him to serve the rest of his sentence in a Libyan jail under the prisoner transfer agreement ratified by the UK government in April.

Informed government sources said the US embassy letter still firmly rejected sending Megrahi home to his family: the US wanted Megrahi to stay in Scotland, effectively under house arrest. They knew in advance that releasing Megrahi would prove deeply controversial.

But MacAskill told MSPs yesterday that allowing Megrahi to remain in Scotland would have been unnecessarily expensive: Strathclyde police had said it would take at least 48 officers to provide round-the-clock security.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/2 ... bomber-snp
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Re: Another touch of arrogance from US Senators

Postby Texpat » July 26, 2010, 2:57 pm

Naturally, the Brit papers are trying to tie Bobo into this, pathetically trying to share part of the blame. They're trying to twist the story using headlines suggesting Bobo approved of al Megrehi's release and return.

That is simply not the case and further sullies the soiled tatters of Britain's current reputation.

Why can't they follow the lead of their PM and admit it was a gigantic blunder? All this scrambling around and tap dancing only makes them seem more foolish.
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Re: Another touch of arrogance from US Senators

Postby BobHelm » July 26, 2010, 3:28 pm

"No facts Tex" strikes again :D :D
This time even worse than usual - everything said by nearly every poster (himself excluded) repudiates what he says...what does he do - continue to spout his xenophobic crap.
He really is just so funny in his posts that it really does lighten my day to read them!! :D
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Re: Another touch of arrogance from US Senators

Postby arjay » July 26, 2010, 4:05 pm

Not only that, but I can't work out what his posts have to do with the topic title. :? :-k

Texpat frequently mentions "distractions", I guess his xenophobic and indiscriminate mud-slinging posts are designed to try and "distract" us from the actual topic (and its true validity), -as shown at the top of each and every post. :roll:
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Re: Another touch of arrogance from US Senators

Postby JimboPSM » July 27, 2010, 12:38 am

nkstan wrote:I wonder if there was ''some''doubt about his being guilty???........... :oops:

There are a few conspiracy theories along those lines, this is a link to one from Tam Dalyell, a former Labour MP (Member of the UK Parliament) from 1962 to 2005.

If "invited", he would undoubtedly accept, but it is quite likely (from his past performances) that what he might say would not be palatable to some ears - he has been connected to a number of controversies through his "colourful" political career.

Tam Dalyell is not your normal run of the mill conspiracy theorist, he has an interesting history; he went to school at Eton, went to Cambridge studying History and Economics where (very surprisingly to me) he was Chairman of the Conservative Association - only changing to Labour after the Suez crisis.

He has been a very effective Parliamentary debater and a real thorn in the side to both Conservative and Labour Governments - when in full flow he makes George Galloway (who made a clown out of Norm Coleman at a previous Senate hearing) look like a bit of a pussy cat.

Note: I am not endorsing or defending his theories - just confirming that there are doubts in some quarters (which may or may not have any factual legitimacy).
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Re: Another touch of arrogance from US Senators

Postby UdonExpat » July 27, 2010, 7:28 am

I sure hope those arrogant US Senators find out who profited from the release of this mass murderer.

It's obvious Scotland didn't care about the 270 victims, as most of them were Americans.

US officials warned Scotland over al-Megrahi

By JENNIFER QUINN, Associated Press Writer Jennifer Quinn – Mon Jul 26, 5:08 pm ET

LONDON – American officials were dead-set against the release of the Lockerbie bomber and warned Scottish authorities that scenes of jubilation in Tripoli over his return would upset victims' families, a newly released document showed Monday.

The Aug. 12, 2009 letter from Richard LeBaron, the charge d'affaires at the U.S. Embassy in London, to Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond sets out the views of the American government as Scotland grappled with whether to release Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, the only person convicted in the bombing attack on Pan Am Flight 103.

"The United States maintains its view that in light of the scope of Megrahi's crime, its heinous nature, and its continuing and devastating impact on the victims and their families, it would be most appropriate for Megrahi to remain imprisoned for the entirety of his sentence," the letter says, declaring the U.S was not willing to support his release on either compassionate grounds or under a prisoner transfer agreement.

The release of the correspondence comes ahead of a hearing this week in Washington into the circumstances surrounding the Aug. 20 release of al-Megrahi, convicted in 2001 of the attack on the jetliner in the skies above the small town of Lockerbie, Scotland. The December 1988 bombing killed 259 people — mostly Americans — on board the plane, and another 11 on the ground.

The senators will also probe whether an exploration deal between Libya and London-based oil company BP had an impact on the decision to release al-Megrahi.

Britain and Libya began negotiating their prisoner transfer agreement in 2007, and it came into effect last April. BP has acknowledged it had expressed concern to the British government about the progress of the prisoner transfer deal, but said it had not raised the case of al-Megrahi.

The British government has said there is no evidence BP was involved in Scotland's decision to release him, and Scottish authorities have said they had no contact with BP over al-Megrahi

BP signed a $900 million exploration agreement with Libya in May 2007................

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100726/ap_ ... _lockerbie
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Re: Another touch of arrogance from US Senators

Postby arjay » July 27, 2010, 1:36 pm

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, may I again may I point out that the topic here, was about what I, as the OP, perceived as the "arrogance" of US Senators inviting other government Ministers and officials to attend US Senate hearings.

I find it very frustrating when posters, for whatever reason, seek to take the thread off onto other topics, for example, onto the merits of releasing al Megrahi or what punishment was warranted for the offence he committed. (The reasons behind the "invitations" is irrelevant to the principles involved. My point was that such "invitations" were IMO both arrogant and unconstitutional ). I wonder if some posters do that to deflect things away from the validity of the point/criticism made in the OP. I suspect some simply seek to take every opportunity to post their anti British views.

If posters which to pursue/discuss other topics or issues, related or otherwise, they are free to start a new topic for the purpose. Indeed I would actively encourage them to do so. Posters can then choose which threads to participate in, clearly knowing the topic title and thus the likely thread content. The fact that some posters seem to prefer to highjack existing threads and either pull them off topic, or use them to indulge their xenophobic type remarks, suggests to me that in the latter case their motives are less than honourable, having the sole intention of stirring the pot.
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Re: Another touch of arrogance from US Senators

Postby tigerryan » July 27, 2010, 6:55 pm

Arjay, It's not arrogant because I say so. Its been established that the congressman involved have no legal authority to compel the British subjects to comply. How could they and who ever said they could?. I don't understand why you would include the "constitutionality" presumably the US Constitution why would it have anything to do with it? I don't remember anything in the constitution that prevents a congressman or myself from calling out at the top of his lungs that this situation is a complete Fjob and summonsing all to answer (as a side note US congressmen don"t even know what the constitution is anyway). I also don't understand how your can have topic discussion without looking at the cause of the subject matter.

I think the disconnect is that most people don't think like Scottish Lawyer's.
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