Death at Big C Junction

by **Galee** » December 18, 2011, 8:07 am

Nasty accident at the Big C junction last night.
When I drove by at about 10.30pm there was a lot of ambulance and police vehicles there. About 20 metres towards the Global House lights there was a body covered with a white sheet. About 150 metres further along the road a lorry had pulled over and was blocked in by a vehicle.
I'm guessing that the lorry ran a red light.

by **BobHelm** » December 18, 2011, 8:55 am

For some reason that I cannot fathom (now that traffic going directly over the ring road can go on the overpass) that has to be one of the most dangerous junctions in Udon. I have had countless near misses there with drivers completely ignoring both the lights & the general rule about which side of the road to travel on.
Whenever possible I use another route!!

by **parrot** » December 18, 2011, 9:38 am

That's a bad intersection during the daytime......let alone at night. Although any 4 way intersection with a traffic light at 10:30PM is an invitation for an accident.

by **pienmash** » December 18, 2011, 10:04 am

The roads /driving here is at best deadly .. i am very careful now at any junction/traffics lights as running red is so common here its scary , weher on a motorbike , car or big overloaded truck n trailer ,,,,, at the end of the day you youreslf can be aas careful and steady a driver as you like but its the other maniacs out there that can still end innocents lives ...... on tv last night the main national news a lorry went off the road and smashed into a roadside house on the 304 highway while the family inside where watching tv ,,, you just cant legislate for stuff like that except the driver did a runner as per norm.

I liken the young Thai boy racers to the characters in the Mad Max movies of old Mel Gibson as Max .

Mash

by **parrot** » December 18, 2011, 8:11 pm

The British Embassy recently commented on road accidents......http://ukinthailand.fco.gov.uk/en/news/ ... =694093882

I'm skeptical of the 7468 fatalities mentioned.....as that'd be a mere 20 deaths per day for the entire country, or about 97 deaths per province per year. A 2 minute google check revealed a wide range of "official figures" -- 12,858 in 2005, 11,048 in 2009, or For the past 5 years, 2002-2006, some 66300 people died in road traffic accidents in Thailand or an average of 13260 deaths per annum.....all reported by different organizations.
Anyway you cut it, the roads out there are dangerous. Rider/Driver beware!

by **JimboPSM** » December 19, 2011, 3:53 am

As Parrot says there are many statistics out there; I looked for one with some kind of comparative data which would help to quantify the relative degree of danger from country to country.

I found one on Wikipedia which has “Road fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants”, it is sourced from a WHO report; here are some selected extracts:

Thailand – 19.6

It should be noted that while the data that I have included is not strictly comparable as it does not all come from the same year (it is either from 2006 or 2007 as indicated) it is still in my opinion a reasonably good indicator; in addition as some of the WHO data is sourced from government bodies the methodology for defining "fatalities" may vary and may also be subject to political influence.

The above figures show that, relatively speaking, US roads are more dangerous for European citizens than Thailand roads are for US citizens :shock:

It would be interesting to know how much the quality, availability and cost of emergency medical treatment impacts on the fatality rates :-k

The Wikipedia article can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate

The WHO “Global Status Report On Road Safety” can be found here (WARNING large 4.9 MB file):

http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2 ... 40_eng.pdf

by **fatbas***d** » December 19, 2011, 8:31 am

parrot wrote:I'm skeptical of the 7468 fatalities mentioned..

I am never the first away from those lights, let someone else test the the water before me.
One thing to bear i mind re figures, Thailand only counts fatalities at the scene so if you croak on the way to, or in the hospital, you are not in official terms, a road fatality.

by **lepidoptra** » December 19, 2011, 12:49 pm

fatbas***d wrote:I am never the first away from those lights, let someone else test the the water before me.

Are you sure it's not your reflexes that stops you being first away.

Further along the road towards town, the police, has been busy issuing tickets for traffic light offences.
Maybe they consider that the Big C junction just too dangerous to be able to enforce the law :shock:

by **LoongLee** » December 20, 2011, 3:14 am

Sorry gentlemen,,,, the statement "Road fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants" is a perfect example of meaningless stats.

What difference does it make how many "inhabitants" there are? What is the "road fatalities per 100,000 licensed drivers" ,,,,, that may mean something regarding dangerous driving habits........... LL

by **fatbas***d** » December 20, 2011, 8:09 am

lepidoptra wrote:Are you sure it's not your reflexes that stops you being first away.

Further along the road towards town, the police, has been busy issuing tickets for traffic light offences.

Nothing wrong with my reflexes Lepidopey, I was at one time the Thailand Wave 100 drag racing champ. $\:D/$ whereas as you seen to have problem reacting to change of lights from green to red.
Personally If I was the eagle eyed cop involved in spotting your dangerous indiscretion, instead of fining you a mere 200bt I would have you tied to a post and have you flayed with a whip until the skin came off your back.

by **dbriggins** » December 20, 2011, 8:13 am

LoongLee wrote:Sorry gentlemen,,,, the statement "Road fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants" is a perfect example of meaningless stats.

What difference does it make how many "inhabitants" there are? What is the "road fatalities per 100,000 licensed drivers" ,,,,, that may mean something regarding dangerous driving habits........... LL

How about fatalities per 100,000 registered vehicles?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

According to this one...US: 15 fatalities per 100k vehicles, Thailand: 118.8 per 100k vehicles. UK: 7 per 100k vehicles. The champ? Malta with 4.6. Iceland comes in close second with 5. Driving in Togo looks like...Well, and accident waiting to happen.

by **JimboPSM** » December 20, 2011, 12:25 pm

From the WHO report (which is well worth a read):

.... From a public health perspective and for the purpose of making comparisons, the use of rates per 100,000 population is a more useful measure of the size of a problem than absolute numbers, and is also useful for assessing performance over time and for giving an indication of risk.

This is the page for Thailand from the WHO report (it is page 202 of the report or 213 of the pdf file):

The most vulnerable road users in Thailand account for four out of every five fatalities:

Most vulnerable (80.8%)

Others (19.2%)

by **Khun Paul** » December 20, 2011, 2:20 pm

I have read all the stats and seen the results of many many accidents and I will reiterate what I have stated before ' WHILE THAILAND VIEWS LIFE AS CHEAP THEN IT WILL NEVER CHANGE '

The insurance companies and even the Government itself pays a pittance for a life lost, coupled with the Thai complete disregard for any laws, especially those relating to driving anything, then we will always have a disaster waiting to happen. The licencing of Buses, lorries and even cars, not forgetting motorcycles are so poorly regulated that it is a wonder we don't see any more deaths than we do
When it comes to the licences to run public transport or even haulage firms then it must be a cess pool of some much corruption that I am surprised that they manage to run at all. We have all seen the Sontels so overloaded with schoolchildren that the front wheels are barely touching the ground and the lorries that literally groan their way along the roads that breakdowns are a common occurrence it is a wonder Thailand actually moves at all. BUT what is now not surprising are the Police ( no matter what s0-called division they come from ) do nothing to address the situation at all. I have seen roadside checks for a small infraction like lack of helmets etc: completely ignore the obvious overweight lorry or the overpacked Sontel , as a I really think it is task to much for them to deal with.

So commenting on yet another death is really not worth ones time, commenting on lack of enforcement, stupidity on the placing of traffic lights and oir misleading signs might have some reaction but deaths...no way, just another statistic on a chart and yet another family mourning at the lack of concern on driving standards , but this is Thailand and they accpet it. yet they are quick to complain if a foreigner was involved. Double standards rule OK, as for Thais that is life ..jai yen yen.

by **parrot** » December 20, 2011, 2:58 pm

"WHILE THAILAND VIEWS LIFE AS CHEAP THEN IT WILL NEVER CHANGE '"

I don't know that I agree.
I've seen my own fair share of expats riding motorcycles erratically, without a helmet, in flip flops or sandals.....and on a few occasions with mom sitting behind and the baby standing in between (I guess the "live as the natives do" logic applies). And I'm still waiting to see an expat use a child seat in their vehicle......not enforced here, but in the US, you'd risk a healthy fine for endangering the life of a child.
I don't agree with it, but I understand why a family of 5 here might opt to go to the market together on their only set of wheels....a battered Honda/Yamaha motorcycle. When you're a moderately poor kid from the village and rely on public transportation, you're going to take whatever is available for that 10 baht coin in your pocket. Some kids at the kilo 15 middle school have a choice at 3:30....get on the songtaeow that's already overloaded or maybe miss a ride home. When you're 15, getting on the roof or dragging your feet along the road doesn't seem so dangerous.........schools don't enforce it and I've yet to see a public service announcement on TV talking about the dangers. It's a way of life in a developing country.

by **Khun Paul** » December 20, 2011, 8:20 pm

I concur that while the poor get whatever they can and also use whatever they have, it does not mean that it is right and that the Government in fact any Government which allows this to happen is as much as fault as those use this transportation recklessly .

Sure I understand from the punters perspective but in this so called developing nation which has developed far more than many I have seen judging by the vast amounts of state cash ostensibly being spent on public requirements , then one would think that the protection of life is a priority rather than an add on as and when they feel like it.
Considering the vast amounts of profits made by many public transport companies , the fact that in the majority of cases, even a cursory inspection of many forms of transport would highlight glaring errors which could if left untreated could and does cause death and injury to the passengers it carries .

Enforcement of the law is not the only means by which it could be made better , but insurance companies should be made to properly compensate victims adn they in turn ( the ins coys ) should also penalise the carriers if they are found to be the reason why an accident occurred be that the drivers fault or even bad maintainance.

I mean when one buys a ticket you are in fact entering into a contract for that carrier to transport you from one place to another safely, if that does not occur due to an error by the carrier, then the carrier should foot the bill whatever it is. here unfortunately because customers are at the bottom of the pecking order and the lax enforcement of any and all rules and laws, then it is a certainty that the current carnage will continue. depsite what many think I am not anti thailand nor its carriers but just wish they do take more care of their passengers . I have been to too many funerals where people have died due the current system some of them have been friends. In the UK i only in the last 60 odd years ever been to one funeral involving a passenger on a public transport carrier, in the last 8 years I have been to 15 here.
That alone says it all. Life is considered cheap here.

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