Semperfiguy,

Your symptom sounds like your pancreas may be secreting too much insulin when insulin is called for, thereby depleting the glucose in your bloodstream. When the glucose is depleted, you are hypoglycemic -so you eat something, and that starts the cycle over and over again. In the mean time, you're eating more starchy and sugary foods which helps keep your blood glucose levels high, causing excessive urination as your kidneys try to clear the blood of ketones, this in turn, leads to drinking more fluids...

The doctor may have missed something. Did he measure something called Glycated hemoglobin (HbA1c)? If he did not, then he might mistakenly conclude that you are not diabetic. (HbA1c is a very good indicator of diabetes) If he did have it measured, and the figure is under 7.0, then you have nothing to worry about (opinions vary on the threshold of "worrying").

I hope you are not diabetic, but if your HbA1c was not checked, you would do well to get that tested.

Pardon me did I miss something, initially Semperfiguy you asked for assistance and most of us gave help I even suggested that a certain hospital in Udon would be the best option.
Now we have further problems, now IF you had sought advice ( professionally) I would assume that your problems would have been noted, good though many members are in giving advice unless I am mistaken NONE of them are fully qulaified in that particular field and they are offering advice some based on experience.
I reiterate that the only way to deal with this medical problem is to seek correct professional advice and stick to it. No matter what you think of Thai doctors or even Consultants, they do actually have a pretty good record of dealing with Diabetes as in this country it is higher than in many others due in part to their diet.
So although much good advice has been given to you and I am not going to decry it, you SHOULD seek and HEED the advice PROFESSIONALLY given to you.
Else we are all going to event which will celebrate your life rather than live it.
Now some amy say Paul you shouldn't say that, but I remember my brother, who after dealing with a patient for Diabetes abuse for the n'th time said quite simply, 'Do this or die your choice, I give advice but you must deal with the problem with my help, or else '.. he was the Senior Consultant for Diabetes at a very well known UK Hospital for 20 years.
So Semperfiguy it is your choice really isn't it. Take care

KP,although it happens quite often,I didn't read any amaturish advice given that would cause him any problems.Those that have diabetes and are being treated are great people to seek advice for hospital and doctor choices!He did follow some direction advice and sought treatment.

When getting a ''clean bill of health'',there is a tendency to worry since there were problems that were not sorted out!

I have worked with hundreds of doctors and after all that,I can only think of one that I would have absolute confidence in!Picking a good one in Thailand,can be a challenging proposition,at best,so seeking the the advice of others on the selection is very prudent! =D>

[quote="Khun Paul"]Now we have further problems, now IF you had sought advice ( professionally) I would assume that your problems would have been noted, good though many members are in giving advice unless I am mistaken NONE of them are fully qulaified in that particular field and they are offering advice some based on experience.
I reiterate that the only way to deal with this medical problem is to seek correct professional advice and stick to it.

Dear fellow forumites,

Some of you have continued to give me advice towards my original post, and I sincerely appreciate your concerns. I did go for professional advice and posted the results shortly thereafter. Perhaps some of you missed that post, so I am attaching it below. To rickfarang...the HbA1c test that you suggested was one of those test performed and the results came in at 5.5, so that is normal. I am sure that I posted a follow up report wherein I pinpointed my problem as an allergic reaction to a morning drink called NesVita which contains wheat and some other ingredients which are not familiar to me. I had been taking the drink every morning for the previous 3-4 months. It appears that the reactions that I was getting from the drink seem to mimmick the symtoms of low blood sugar. I stopped taking the drink and the symtoms disappeared. I haven't had a problem since.

From my January 25th post: Well, I just returned from the Military Hospital after having seen a doctor this morning for my concerns about the low blood sugar episodes and possible diabetes. The lab performed a battery of 18 various blood tests and the doctor gave me a clean bill of health, with the exception of my cholesterol being elevated just a bit, but no cause for concern and no medication prescribed. I suppose I should be very happy with the final analysis, but I am still concerned about what is making my blood sugar drop so often during the day. The doc couldn't give me an answer and only suggested that I make sure to eat between meals and before bedtime. I'm already eating the proper foods and exercising adequately, and I don't smoke, drink alcohol or consume any caffeine. My blood pressure was normal and the doc seemed to be impressed with my overall health for a 62 year old man.

Total bill: 2070 baht. Doc's fee is free since we ordered lab tests. Lab alone back in the States would have easily been $500 (15,000 baht) or more for such an extensive profile of testing, and that doesn't include the doctor's fee.

I want to thank all you fellow forumites for your concern, your advice and your encouragement.

Regards and God Bless!

=D> The best outcome we could imagine!

SG

one last thing you should do is also report this to the company with a registered letter . The Thai authorities should be advised. Whilst it might be seen by yourself as a personal hypersensitive issue etc, there may be others , that you unaware of but the company and authorities are aware of.

If its a foreign company they are required to report it also.

Wonderful the best outcome for ALL concerned I am so pleased and happy.
I did in an aside ask my bro, he suggested little and often might be the answer, which was borne out by your visitation and advice gained here.

Good news you found out
Food allergy it seems.
With the risk of being dizzed by other members for my non-doctor advice, I humbly remind you there is such a thing as cross allergy. If you are allergic to wheat (or some other constituent in Nesvita), then it may be you will also experience allergic reactions to other food ingredients. Just something to keep in mind if the "low sugar" returns.

Best wishes
Wayne

I'm so glad you found the root of the problem! I'm also allergic to wheat and it can be crazy the ways that the allergic reaction can show up. Sometimes going to a doctor and getting test results can be the biggest relief. I'm so glad you have great health!

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/TIP04268/A- ... namon.html

A New Use for Cinnamon
Published: 11/28/2011

November is Diabetes Awareness Month. Each Monday throughout November we offer tips dedicated to managing and lessening the risk of diabetes. We encourage you to send this helpful information to others who may be affected by this disease.

Adding some spice to your life may do more than enhance the flavor of foods. Preliminary evidence indicates that the common spice cinnamon may help reduce blood sugar - a benefit for those with diabetes. A study published in the December 2003 issue of Diabetes Care reported on people with type 2 diabetes who were given differing daily amounts of cinnamon (1, 3, or 6-gram capsules). Regardless of the amount of cinnamon they received, the study group reduced their blood glucose levels by 18 to 29 percent compared to those receiving a placebo. They also experienced a reduction in their LDL ("bad") cholesterol.

If you are diabetic, consider adding one-quarter teaspoon of cinnamon to your diet twice daily and see what effect it has. If it works for you, cinnamon should be used as an adjunct to, but not a substitute for, other medications and lifestyle measures such as exercise, a healthy diet and shedding extra pounds - all of which are proven ways to help control glucose levels.

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/TIP04261/Wo ... betes.html

Worried About Diabetes?
Published: 11/21/2011

November is Diabetes Awareness Month. Each Monday throughout November we offer tips dedicated to managing and lessening the risk of diabetes. We encourage you to send this helpful information to others who may be affected by this disease.

If you have been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes or prediabetes (having higher than normal blood sugar levels, but not yet in the range of diabetes), you can help to alleviate or even reverse your condition with three fairly simple lifestyle changes:

* Get daily physical activity. Exercise improves the action of insulin, moving glucose out of the bloodstream and into tissues where it can be used for energy.
* Maintain a healthy weight. If you are overweight, the more pounds you lose, the lower your chances of developing diabetes. Talk with your doctor about what your optimum weight should be, and how to achieve it.
* Maintain your health. Get regular checkups for blood pressure, cholesterol and triglyceride levels, and seek treatment if necessary.

I LOVE cinnamon rolls...

I think that the jury is still very much out on the use of Cinnamon in treating diabetes.
This is what Diabetes UK say about it.

The theory that cinnamon can be beneficial in treating or preventing diabetes has been around for a while, and there has been some evidence to suggest that it is true in mice. Recent research has suggested that cinnamon may improve blood glucose levels and blood fats in people with Type 2 diabetes. The research is interesting but Diabetes UK is not recommending that people start taking large doses of the spice, as has been suggested by some American doctors. We would be interested in seeing more research in this area.

What is far more important for people with diabetes and those who may be at risk is eating a healthy balanced diet – low in fat, sugar and salt, and containing plenty of fruit and vegetables – and, of course, getting regular physical activity and taking any prescribed medication.

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-dia ... /Cinnamon/

I don't think that anyone could argue with you second piece jingjai. Every medical article that I have read mentions the increased risk of diabetes if a person is overweight & the importance of understanding and having a good balanced diet..

Jicama (มันบัวหิมะ mahn bua hee mah) seems to be growing in popularity among the local vegetarian population as it's now readily available from China (10 kg box for 250 baht). It's a sweet, juicy root and according to what I've read, good for digestion and good for diabetics. You might not be able to find it in the smaller markets or in stores like Lotus, but it's in the wholesale market next to Makro and some of the bigger city markets.
http://www.incahealth.com/yacon.html

My take: testing, logging. Not lab testing, but self-testing. Not once a day, but after every meal, and after you exercise.

Learn how your blood sugar responds to different foods and to activity. Write down everything you eat, and all the exercise you do. Learn about glycemic index of foods, and grams of carbohydrates in foods. Keep a chart of your weight. There is a great app for Android phones called OnTrack, which almost makes it fun to do, and I'm sure there are many other apps or methods to keep track of these things.

Do all this faithfully for a month, until you can see the way your diabetes responds to various inputs. Then, once you have established a pattern, you can reduce the frequency of testing, while you'll still have an idea what kind of blood sugars your behavior produces. At some point, you'll reach the optimum testing schedule, which you will need to continue until you no longer have abnormal blood sugar. If you are on medication, take it as normal, until you see results, and then go to your doctor and show him your numbers, and ask if you can reduce the medication.

The point of all this is to face your problem, and not bury your head until you go blind, or a foot falls off. It is not easy, and testing supplies will be expensive for a while, until you can predict what your behavior will accomplish, but it's a LOT better than the alternative. It's a form of behavior modification that makes you see the results of what you eat and what you do, so you can make changes, instead of constantly procrastinating and fooling yourself.

Sateev's blood sugar was over 300 on a daily basis when he returned to the US in 2008, and for other reasons, he couldn't take the metformin that is such a great medicine for Type-II diabetics. Luckily, he got good insurance, and good counsel from his doctor, and, although he had to inject medicine (not insulin) for a few months, the above method let him get a handle on the problem. 35 lbs lighter, he still checks his blood sugar, but the combination of weight loss, exercise, and better food keeps his glucose normal (unless he slips up, or gets sick).

One last thing: it's normal to slip up or get sick, and then your blood sugar MAY get out of control. DON'T try to overcompensate! Just go back to what, by now, you know: testing and logging. You'll get back on the right track.

Have the courage to do it, and be around to support your loved ones, and enjoy them for a long time.

Good post, Steve. I can agree with all of this.

One thing I've been trying to figure out for a while, that someone may know:

Why, when my fasting blood sugar is high most days -- around 200-220 or so -- would my hbA1c be so good every time I check that; last week, 6.8 = "well-managed".

BTW, I did that test at TLC Labs for about B300, I think, the same time I checked to see if there were any more of the little fellas swimmin' round me semen, for about B250. Said the semen was now "azoospermia"; i.e., devoid of sperm: a good thing in my case since that was the goal of being snipped, after all.

Wonder what these tests would've cost at Aek, or abroad? One of the many things I like about living here. Drive in, fix the car; walk in, check your blood or other bodily floods; sit down, pull that tooth. 20 bucks, thank you very much.

Jed - a number of things could account for high fasting blood sugars. Fasting needs to be defined, but since you say 'most days', I assume you are checking the morning after a 'normal' evening meal. Diabetics, depending on how long and how severe the disease, often have digestive issues, with food moving more slowly through your digestive tract, prolonging its absorption, and keeping blood sugars high longer.

If slower absorption is not the culprit, consider that your liver is constantly making glucose from glycogen after food is absorbed, and your metabolism is slower during sleep, so your blood sugar can rise.

If you are active during the day, your blood sugar will tend to normalize, and since HbA1c is an indicator of AVERAGE blood sugar over a three-month period or so, your result (which is HIGH normal, BTW) may fall into the range you mention.

While a good general indicator of your level of control, HbA1c doesn't account for the magnitude of the high excursions, and is not an indicator of the damage such excursions cause. As an example, pancreatic islet cells find sugars in the 200 range toxic, and can die, resulting in less ability for the pancreas to secrete insulin, compounding the problem. There is evidence that those cells 'wear out' trying to produce the levels necessary to overcome your insulin resistance at that level.

I don't want to sound preachy, but what is considered 'acceptable' for HbA1c really isn't. An arbitrary number ("I'm below 7.0 (6., so I'm OK") is false security. Doctors use it to gauge their success in treating you, but they don't have to live with neuropathy, and other degenerative illnesses that accrue from being just under their arbitrary acceptable level.

Here's a REALLY good website that covers all this: http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/

The woman who authors the sites is a bit of a maniac on the subject, but well-researched, and well-meaning, if a bit extreme.

Talking about this is one of the best ways to treat it. Hope this thread continues.

I started this thread last January because I was having problems with symptoms associated with hypoglycemia (low blood sugar). To quickly summarize what transpired in the following months, keeping in mind that I don't smoke, drink alcohol or sodas, I eat healthy meals (thanks to my wonderful wife) and exercise daily but I'm a little overweight: A battery of blood tests revealed no abnormalities. I subsequently cut out all caffeinated drinks and finally came to the conclusion that I was experiencing reactive hypoglycemia as a result of drinking a breakfast drink containing wheat and some other unusual ingredients. However, throughout the year I have continued to be plagued by these same symptoms...(A person with hypoglycemia may feel weak, drowsy, confused, hungry, and dizzy. Paleness, headache, irritability, trembling, sweating, rapid heart beat, and a cold, clammy feeling are also signs of low blood sugar. In severe cases, a person can lose consciousness and even lapse into a coma.)

Truthfully, I have never really completely cut off the coffee, but I have continually experimented with 1,2 or 3 cups a day while I have searched the internet for answers. I have recently discovered that some people develop a hypersensitivity to caffeine and the onset of this caffeine allergy can come at any time, even to someone who has been accustomed to drinking 8-10 cups a day for years. Caffeine allergy causes reactions in brain tissue, particularly the prefrontal cortex, producing a lack of focus and comprehension, lack of organizational skills, and a loss of verbal and social inhibition. Caffeine also raises catecholamine levels, which causes the body to produce more dopamine and increases activity.

Now, here's the answer I have been looking for: The symptoms associated with hypoglycemia are sometimes mistaken for symptoms caused by conditions not related to blood sugar. For example, unusual stress and anxiety can cause excess production of catecholamines, resulting in symptoms similar to those caused by hypoglycemia but having no relation to blood sugar levels. Therefore, I can now deduct that the caffeine is raising my catecholamine levels which in turn produces these symptoms which mimic hypoglycemia.

So, now that I know for certain what is going on, I know how to deal with it. I have tried to cut out all caffeine completely for months at a time, but I never got over that tired and sluggish feeling with no "get up and go" and I stayed somewhat depressed most of the time. So I have been experimenting now with 1/2 bag of 3 in 1 with the 10% coffee content in a small cup of hot water each morning after breakfast, but never on an empty stomach. So far this dosage is working well. I get the "pick me up" that I need each day, and I don't get the symptoms of hypoglycemia.

I wanted to report these findings on the forum because I am sure that there are probably others out there who are having similar complications, so all coffee drinkers should be aware and consider your caffeine intake and how it affects your health. I also discovered that there is no such thing as decaf coffee or tea. You're still getting 15% of the caffeine in a regular cup of coffee or tea, and for those of us who are hypersensitive, that can be a lot.

After my small morning cup I have to make sure that I don't drink a tea or soda with caffeine during that 24 hour period or I go into caffeine overload and it wrecks havoc on my body. Sorry to make this so long, but I hope it helps someone!

Thanks Steve -- Again, an excellent post with great info and a very informative, edifying reference, which I've been perusing.

I've been looking into this area for a few years and it all jives with what I've learned and personally experienced.

Excellent point about not being lulled into false complacency simply because of "decent numbers."

One point where I'd love to be proven wrong is the possibility of reversing diabetes, but due to islet damage in the pancreas, I gather from most sources that's not possible -- only managing it and controlling it are.

And Mr. Parrot, my wife just gave me some (what is it, man snow lotus) man bua hee mah -- quite tasty: kind of a cross between champoo & salee & maybe potato (is there an "e" on the end?). Thanks for the tip. If anyone has any links to research on this, I'd like to see them. I'll have a look around as well.

And yes, good thread. There must be others who can contribute and add to this.

Jed - the hallmark of type-II diabetes is insulin resistance, NOT lack of insulin, at least until you've had it long enough to destroy islet cells. Then, it becomes a combination of the two. Older medicines used to stimulate insulin secretion to compensate for the insulin resistance (Glyburide, etc.). Newer medicines, like metformin, reduce insulin resistance, and so avoid the undesirable side effects of excess insulin in the blood, namely, fat storage, which is PRECISELY what causes insulin resistance in the first place.

It's not the NUMBER of fat cells, but their volume/surface area ratio that determine insulin resistance. When you lose weight, you don't lose fat cells, they just become smaller. The surface area increases as the square of the radius (4*pi*r^2), while the volume increases as the cube of the radius (4/3*pi*r^3), so the volume gets bigger much faster than the surface area, and insulin resistance goes up.

Interestingly, a now-discredited, dangerous medicine, Avandia, and it's cousin Actos, worked by stimulating the growth of new, but relatively tiny fat cells, which, because of their size, used insulin efficiently, and helped reduce glucose. This is terrible, because these new fat cells can grow just like the old ones, and eventually contribute to the problem, same as the old big ones! Many heart attacks occurred before the FDA in the US finally issued a warning for these meds.

So, what to do? Lose weight, shrink fat cells. Get liposuction to reduce the NUMBER of big fat cells (found in your abdomen), except that the risk probably outweighs the benefit.

I guess the best we can hope for the combo of losing weight (shrinking fat cell volume), and modifying our behavior to minimize blood sugar excursions, and to promote better heart health. That's the closest to a cure I can think of.

Everyone should bear in mind that we are talking about advanced, long-standing cases of type-II diabetes. People newly diagnosed can be med and symptom-free with just a few pounds of weight loss. No need to let it get out of hand...

Measuring your blood sugar, noting the effects of what you eat, and how you exercise, are the tools you need to beat it. Genetics is genetics, but you can influence the outcome greatly in your favor.

I earlier said มันบัวหิมะ mahn bua hee mah is jicama. I think the name is yakon root (http://www.anniesremedy.com/herb_detail514.php) whereas jicama is probably what's known as mahn gaeow (มันก้ว). Sorry about that. By the way, mahn gaeow is known as a diabetic-friendly vegetable.