Difference between British & Thai Police

i would ard there is only one person always right.

Watch out gents, here comes my 2 satang,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Since I'm an American and an outsider,,,,,,,,, I would say that if I were in need of assistance and both were available (and spoke excellent English), I would call upon the Bobby,,, expecting a courteous, fair, professional response.

cheers,,,,,LL,,,

Well I must say, if someone tried to run down a US cop he'd have got shot and killed and the cop would have got 30 days off (administrative leave) with pay. Assault with a deadly weapon against a law enforcement officer justifies the use of deadly force in the US.
If a Thai cop is off work because of an injury, is he still eligible for "tea money"? If not, it might explain why he went back to work so soon.

Regarding the hours worked, that is down to the ancient and old system of working which to my knowledge has not changed for at least 60 odd years, in part that was due to the Police Federation seeking too iron out injustices which were imposed on them by the then so-called Chief Constables at the time, since then Chief Constables are not political appointees and the times have changed.
There is an element of truth that the work patterns need to be addressed, bearing in mind that the current police work time ethic is 80hours per fortnight, or 160 hours every four weeks, now that may not seem a lot but it does include working through the night at the normal rate of pay.
Public holidays are deemed to be double bubble and I can tell you that the amount of officers on duty is pared down to the minimum, but it is then that many problems arise, as the rest of the country is NOT working apart from some .

So it is the need to address the working patterns and compensation fact or which needs to be addressed.

NOT forgetting that the current law does NOT ALLOW THE BRITISH POLICEMAN TO STRIKE then you will see that to deal with this needs to be done correctly and takes into account all the restrictions put on Officers lives. Which I am sure not many other professions have put on them.
After the Edmund davies report some years ago it was reccomended that to put officers pay in line with that currently enjoyed by similar occupations would need a rise of over 80%, needless to say we got only 45% I think, so in fact we are still paid less than similar occupations .

No matter what anyone thinks would you rather have the Police controlling industrial unrest or the Military, me I would prefer the police with all their faults they are in some way accountable but the military are not.
Also with todays compensation culture a fiend of mine who was attending a traffic accident and had parked his car behind the accident to protect the scene has now had a complaint against him for leaving his car in a dangerous position after a yoblet, ran into the back of it, his parents are demanding financial compensation for the death of their son. He has gone off the rails my friend, he was only doing his job and yet he has this hanging over his head, why???

So UDONUK be very careful what you complain about the alternative would probably be far worse.

Repect to you Arjay too, you also predicted the Spain v Holland final. I think that ALL public sector workers must be exposed when they are acting in a dishonest way, starting with MPs. Police costs are spiralling out of control.

Well of course nobody would like to deal with all the criminals, and of course they have very very difficult job, but it has ALWAYS been like that. I would never do that, no !

But what is new are the spanish practices and being used in a political way against democratically elected unions.
IF you were a tax payer in UK, Arjay, what would you think if 25% of the taxes you pay, go simply towards paying for public workers' pensions, this is even not taking into account their ACTUAL salaries and PERKS. Police work 30 or so works for gold plated pensions, whereas people in private sector must work 50 years for a poorer pension, 20 YEARS MORE ! Polce always say that they have too much paperwork, but why don't the over 50s do the paperwork ? Value for taxpayers' money.

It is the police overtime that is the biggest earner for the UK police. Once my house was broken into, and i heard nothing from the police for 2 weeks, but on Easter Monday they came around (on double or maybe triple time, of course), when they could maximise their overtime payments. They took their time that day ! I think that one big reason for police working patterns (e.g working on quiet Monday mornings etc) , is that many police officers have second jobs as a side line . THey do their hours in easy quiet time of the day , and then they are free to do their second job. Police officers in the UK have to DECLARE all second jobs, and thge number is increasing very fast every year. So on top of the work patterns, pensions, perks, car allowances, many also have a second job. I am not sure about the Thai position on second jobs however, i will ask my neighbour

There are yet MORE scandals to come out about the police pay and perks, in particular the car allowances. This costs taxpayers M ILLIONS, that the government recouperates in taxes and bigger and bigger fines (collected by the police).
Whatever the former police officers on here say, IN EVERY first world country , the police receive a share of the fines. In UK, it is more deliberately hidden by multi public sector institutions.

Getting back to the original thread, my neighbour did NOT break his leg, but it looks pretty horrible still to me ! He told me that Thai police have to actually PAY for their own uniform and many other things, unlike the UK police who receive many allowances for this. The Thai police get a very small salary and pension too, and do not get regularly called out just before their shift ends (WInk Wink), like UK cops.

It was the UK inspector for police who made the report about the police "perks" and working patterns (the quiet Monday morning is RUSH hour for UK cops working) if you read the Daily Mail article. The police officers on here (especially Khun Paul) sound like honest chaps , yes. i wish i was getting their pension though, the Thai ladies would flock towards former UK police officers despite the weakness of the pound

There is great waste in the gov't bureacracy always!If It was my vote,worrying about police expenses would be at the bottom of the list when tackling waste,in all areas except extortion and payoffs!

Police put their body and life on the line at any moment,I think that warrants better pay,better retirement than ordinary citizens!

Safety of the public should be paramount in the decisions of gov't,their first responsibility,so the thinking about streamlining gov't waste needs to have priortized thinking and action!

There are always bad apples in every barrel,but when the good apples are respected and treated with the deserved compensation,they will throw the bad apples out,if just to maintain their own status!

WITH REGARD TO POLICE PENSIONS, MAY I MAKE A POINT
1,I PAID 11% OF EVERY POUND I EARNED ON MY PENSION FOR 30 YEARS AND STILL YOU DENY MY PENSION.

Many public service sectors pay a lot less and yet they are in fact supported by the taxpayer far more than the Police pension.
In respect of car allowances, I cannot comment as all my years I only ever claimed for using my car to go to a Court or other event which needed me to drive to it ( not in a Police car ).

The vast majority of Police officers and I speak for them on this forum, do a grand job with all the hassle from the public who often complain about their pay,perks and the like.

FORTUNATELY , for the public a vast majority still consider being a police officer a profession NOT JUST A JOB, BUT THE CONSTANT WHINGING does make one wonder why do they still do the job.

The average Police officer has no input on Duities, availability etc, it was decided many years ago that with only approx 185000 Police officers for 64 odd million People then just maybe instead of cossesting the Public we should make them more aware that they too have a responsibility to look after their property and all that goes with it.

Most members of the public agree, but there are still some who expect the Police to almost wipe their bottoms when something goes wrong and blame anyone but themselves for their predicament, if you realised that a burglary may not seem a lot to many , because the insurance coy will pay up, but it is stressful , if the offender is caught , and goes to court, imagine the Police Officer seeing that same person walking out because the Courts are too weak and have in fact got weaker over the last few years to the extent that approximately 25000 pounds is spent on getting the offender to court, then he/she walks. NOW THAT'S A WASTE OF MONEY.


The British Police was in fact set up, following the OLD HUE AND CRY, when it was decided to employ a person or persons to actually do what everyone used to do after any offence was committed.
Now if we take that to its ulitimate conclusion, the current police are in fact working for you so that you can do whatever you want, because there is someone taking care of you.
The problem is that this costs money and with the advent of interfering politicans , laws were invoked which does in fact make the job harder.

If we all went back to the original theme and murderers were killed, thieves were either put in the stocks for a couple of weeks in all weathers and the youth were sorted out by their families, then we would all be living a peaceful world.

There used to be a time when one could count on your neighbours to assist in all things, but that has gone now and will never be replaced, so we have to live with the system we have, like it or lump it.

udonuk1 wrote:IF you were a tax payer in UK, Arjay, what would you think if 25% of the taxes you pay, go simply towards paying for public workers' pensions, this is even not taking into account their ACTUAL salaries and PERKS.

UdonUK1, I am a taxpayer in the UK, on my UK pension, as Khun Paul will no doubt be on his. I don't know your source as to 25% of the taxes I pay going towards public workers pensions. I somehow doubt that.

udonuk1 wrote:Police work 30 or so works for gold plated pensions, whereas people in private sector must work 50 years for a poorer pension, 20 YEARS MORE !

Most people in the private sector don't pay enough into their pensions, opting to pay in the lowest amounts, rather than paying in extra, or having additional top up type pensions. If police have larger pensions, - Khun Paul says he paid 11% - (I paid much less than that), though I thought police pensions were non-contributory, - can you not view that as part of their overall "remuneration" package? For example, if they got less pension, they'd get more salary. All jobs have their "value" in society and generally the overall remuneration package will relate to that "value" and the need to attract workers. If it was too low, there would be no police to do the jobs that the rest of us don't want to do either.

udonuk1 wrote:Polce always say that they have too much paperwork, but why don't the over 50s do the paperwork ? Value for taxpayers' money.

Good point, though doesn't the arresting officer have to do his own paperwork?

I think Stan makes some very valid points too, in his post I've pasted below:

nkstan wrote:There is great waste in the gov't bureacracy always!If It was my vote,worrying about police expenses would be at the bottom of the list when tackling waste,in all areas except extortion and payoffs!

Police put their body and life on the line at any moment,I think that warrants better pay,better retirement than ordinary citizens!

Safety of the public should be paramount in the decisions of gov't,their first responsibility,so the thinking about streamlining gov't waste needs to have priortized thinking and action!

There are always bad apples in every barrel,but when the good apples are respected and treated with the deserved compensation,they will throw the bad apples out,if just to maintain their own status!

Well Stan WOULD say that, wouldn't he, Arjay ? He is one of the ones with his finger in the great taxpayer and fine payer PIE !

As for Khun Pauil's reply, well, his post was so self righteously dull, off subject and rambling, i will not even bother to reply to it.
As i said previously , it is not ONLY my views, it is the report of the Police Inspector (in the Daily Mail link) who is noticing all this abuse by the police and i think that the coalition government will have a great priority in scrapping many police jobs together with other parts of the bloated public sector. Some MPs made redundant would be even better, they are the root source of the corruption, but i am not holding my breath

The government wants to extend it's powers more and more into our private lives, raising more and more taxes, paying more and more public sector workers with bloated pensions and fiddling expenses. Increasing it's own powers is a feature of mosts governments.
Government's share of the economy is increasing every year and their intrusion into family life is just starting. The state will nearly always make a hash of everything it tries to do. I think that the police are in denial and they will be shocked when the easy expense raising life is over, it is coming very soon. As i said previously, in the UK it is all institutionalised fiddling , unlike in Thailand. That is the difference.

The state must be shrunk in size !

I will only add to these posts when the further revelations of the police fiddling of car expenses is exposed by the national newspapers,
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Udonuk, you complain about the Police, yet lump them in with the Govt, you have absolutely no idea who pays for the Police. Only in the Metropolitan Police are the funds directly paid by the Home secretary, every other force is paid for about 50/50 general taxpayer and the local councils.
Accountability is there, oft times not seen by the general public. In fact many ofrces have been selling their old assests in order to make themselves more efficient and more cost effective. let me tell you personally that trying to get expenses paid for is a long drawn out experience and for anything less than 5 pounds most wouldn't even bother.

For not reply to my post, says a lot, you may think it is drawn out but the truth always hurts, but do NOT and I repeat NOT bring the police into the same category as the people in the public institutions who have been found out or caught in corruption scandals.
In fact if my memory serves me, the so-called Chief Inspector of the POlice, was referring to Royal PROTECTION OFFICERS WHO IF MY MEMORY SERVES ME AGAIN think they are above normal standards of work, most officers think they are a pain and pretend officers, so do not judge the whole cake by such a minute slice.

Again you are accusing without proof, only by what another person has said, which most of us have read anyway, if you give us some honest basic truth not previously reported then it would be interesting , but your constant drip about corruption is becoming too much like a personal crusade, one which I ,for one am getting tired of. All Govts are corrupt it is just the level that is difference, and you so high and mighty have NEVER been corrupt or fiddled expenses even a little bit, or always told the truth when caught doing something wrong. That I doubt, no-one is perfect some are just better people than others


Arjay, regarding Police pensions, when I joined it was 7 % then following a review it became 11% overnight with the Fire brigade having the increase fazed in over two years. Again they implemented the Police rise, as we could not strike, the Fire brigade could and did. In the late 40's Police pensions were non-contributory like the military, but then the change came .
SDome would consider it Gold Plated, but when you look at the restrictions on ones private life,
a No other job unless permission granted ( could be detrimental to impartial Policing)
b, Technically you still cannot marry who you want.
c, You still have to discharge all debts expediently
d, You must remain apolitical ( cannot be an active member of ANY political party )
e, Corruption is a no no, ( if caught , immediate discharge and LOSS of pension) they even keep the money you have
paid in as well)

The good side of all that was , after the first two years you job was secure, that is changing as many officers including myself got fed up with what we call ( Uniform carriers , those that were police but did bugger all ) we wanted to invoke administrative dismissal ) which i believe is coming in now.

But the downside is now we have Blunkets Bobbies which although employed by the Police are subject to different employment rules and you know how it is a little power is dangerous, and some are just that very dangerous, equally hard to get rid of though.

Khun Paul states that "0.2 - 0.5 % of police have second jobs", in my local force , the same question was asked under the freedom of information act , it turned out that 106 police officers and 176 of other ancillary staff had second jobs

http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/2010/07/21/teesside-police-officers-boost-income-with-second-jobs-84229-26894053/

There are less than 1700 officers in my local force, many of whom will be off sick (more of that later), so 106 out of 1700 , that is 6% or more. The number has DOUBLED in the last 5 years.
Of course i wouldnt expect any other response from a former public sector worker, collecting their huge pension pot. That is normal. They are hardly goimng to complain that they collect gold plated public sector pension pots are they ?

Maybe they do not seem to be aware of this chasm between what they receive and private pensions, but TIMES ARE CHANGING ! Taxpayers have had enough of the public sector perks and allowances. It is us who is paying for the abuse of expenses, sick pay, cheating overtime payments by police and other public workers

Thai police have to retire at 60 , my neighbour tells me ! Government pensions in Thailand are significantly higher than private ones too.

Another story which illustrates what i am talking about is police sick pay, and how it is abused. I have already described how my reletives had 6 months sick. well on Tyneside, a female police officer has been off sick FOR EIGHT YEARS, but there is more .......... she still wants her long service award

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1298593/Police-officer-sick-leave-years-suing-missing-holiday-pay-long-service-medal.html

Governments of both parties always seek to increase their power, raise taxes, i have read that government power has increased 120 times in the last 100 years ! At the moment they are doing this by surveillance, intruding into public life, constantly creating more and more jobs for lawyers, social workers, police. They control HALF the economy. This must stop.
In Thailand, income tax is only 3% , government is still fairly small

And yes Arjay, i gave a link earlier about 25% of local taxes goes to pay ONLY for pensions of public sector workers.

And until 2005, police in UK received a percentage of all speeding tickets. In ALL other industrial countries, they still do.