Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

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How do you view Snowden's actions in (further) exposing the spooks?

Hero - hopefully will find a happy home in a place with no extradition treaty with the US or ally.
58
57%
Traitor - should be strung up from the nearest tree.
28
28%
Other - can't make up my mind yet.
15
15%
 
Total votes: 101

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GT93
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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by GT93 » March 5, 2015, 7:57 am

At times it's the government and not the malcontents who are the bad guys - e.g. apartheid South Africa, North Korea, Syria ... Governments also change and can slide into being bad guys - e.g. Russia (and that's assuming it ever has been a good guy in recent times). I hope the spying isn't as pervasive as you think wayne. It is rich in irony that Snowden has refuge in Russia. Just as well he can't take refuge in Thailand. That would be a serious threat to the US being able to keep anything secret.


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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by jackspratt » March 5, 2015, 1:42 pm

Does this get you excited, wayne?
New Zealand spying on Pacific Island nations and Indonesia, Snowden documents reveal

New Zealand is spying on its Pacific island neighbours and sharing the intelligence with its allies, according to newly released documents.

The papers, leaked by former US National Security Authority (NSA) contractor Edward Snowden and dating back to 2009, claim New Zealand's electronic spy agency intercepted emails, mobile and fixed line phone calls.

Social media messages and other communications were also reportedly tapped in small Pacific states including Fiji, Samoa, Solomon Islands, and French Polynesia.

The documents allege New Zealand's Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) passed the information to the 'Five Eyes' intelligence network, which also includes the United States, Britain, Australia and Canada.

The New Zealand Herald newspaper collaborated with US-based website The Intercept to report on the Snowden documents..............

...............Years ago, the GCSB did some spying on the South Pacific but it would be targeting a particular person, a particular time, for a particular purpose," he said.

"What happens now is they've moved to what they call 'full take', which means taking the full lot — everything.

"In other words, everything that's carried by the big satellites that the Pacific island countries mostly rely on is grabbed en masse and made directly available to the national security agency, the US spy boss."...........


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-05/n ... rs/6283052
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GT93
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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by GT93 » March 5, 2015, 2:00 pm

Yes, that's a developing story. Apparently there's more to come in the next few days. I think it's disgraceful and NZ's Tory Prime Minister, John Key, now looks permanently shifty on intelligence issues. I barely believe a word he says on intelligence matters. In this area he's nearly as bad as Tony Abbott. No wonder Obama has time to play golf with John Key.
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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by wayneor0 » March 5, 2015, 2:47 pm

come on y would nz spy on a pacific island nation.to find out if the big cheese there are having taro or potato for tea.three quarters or whatever of their populations live in nz they r treated and funded like they are children of nz.what possible purpose could there be rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr to have a harmless practice spy :D aussi and nz spy agents where playing i spy,someone had a wager that they could down load all the pi nations secrets in under 5 seconds :razz:

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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by bumper » March 5, 2015, 4:52 pm

Well he gave us something to chat about. He may have put some glitches in the system, But, they are gone now and it's business as usual,

2009 Snowden a bit late on that one :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by jackspratt » May 8, 2015, 10:53 am

Well done Edward Snowden -
The US court of appeals has ruled that the bulk collection of telephone metadata is unlawful, in a landmark decision that clears the way for a full legal challenge against the National Security Agency.

A panel of three federal judges for the second circuit overturned an earlier ruling that the controversial surveillance practice first revealed to the US public by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden in 2013 could not be subject to judicial review...........

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015 ... egal-court
Now officially a hero. =D>

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by jackspratt » June 8, 2023, 5:53 pm

It is the 10th anniversary of Snowden's brave revelations. Hopefully he is living comfortably with his wife and 2 kids, and can be proud of what he did in shining a light on the illegal acts of many intelligence agencies. =D>

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... s-in-exile

ps I really like the look the Poll adds to the forum. :(

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by tamada » June 8, 2023, 11:23 pm

Yes, I agree. I hope he's happy in Russia with his family.
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by FrazeeDK » June 9, 2023, 4:52 am

yes, a paragon of Liberty, free speech and whistle blowing who defected to one of the most repressive regimes in the world, received asylum, then accepted citzenship.. Oh, the evil United States.. I can only hopw Snowden, as a newly naturalized Russian is conscripted as his buddy Vlad's edict says will happen to dual national and naturalized Russians....
Dave

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by jackspratt » June 9, 2023, 7:10 am

At the moment, Snowden realistically has 2 choices about where he lives - relatively free in Russia, or in a US jail.

If there is a better, 3rd alternative, please let him know - I'm sure he will be all ears.

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by FrazeeDK » June 9, 2023, 8:04 am

he's relatively free in Russia because he defected and in my opinion was working for the FSB...

If he'd come back to the States when Obama was President he probably would have ended up with a pardon.... But, he stayed in Putin's Russia...
Dave

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » June 9, 2023, 8:18 am

What happened to Doodoo's level headed comment?
You only pass through this life once, you don't come back for an encore.

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by ChicagoExpat » June 9, 2023, 8:40 am

Total traitor and FSB stooge. While it's true that he seems to have exposed some things going on that shouldn't have been -- a good thing -- he then (in the name of freedom and transparency!) fled to China and then Russia.

Besides the obvious contradictions in 1) not having the courage of your convictions to take a stand and then 2) fleeing to regimes so oppressive they make the worst of the U.S.'s actions look benign --what price do you think the Russians have required him to pay in order for him to stay there?

Pretty obvious, no? For years he has been regularly debriefed by them and is serving as a consultant to the FSB and likely the GRU.

Snowden is a disgusting, vile, traitorous hypocrite.

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by jackspratt » June 9, 2023, 8:49 am

Why would Obama have pardoned him if there was any inkling, or evidence even, that Snowden was working for the FSB?

That doesn't make sense.

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by jackspratt » June 9, 2023, 8:50 am

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:
June 9, 2023, 8:18 am
What happened to Doodoo's level headed comment?
Perhaps it didn't help.

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » June 9, 2023, 8:59 am

jackspratt wrote:
June 9, 2023, 8:50 am
Laan Yaa Mo wrote:
June 9, 2023, 8:18 am
What happened to Doodoo's level headed comment?
Perhaps it didn't help.
It's a difficult decision on Snowden. On the one hand, you can use the my country right or wrong argument. On the other hand, one can take the moral high ground and say he did the right thing. I know the West welcomed defectors from Communist countries as heroes. Using that latter criteria, shouldn't he be seen as a hero?
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by noosard » June 9, 2023, 10:16 am

Can imagine his statue next to Putin's

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by ChicagoExpat » July 25, 2023, 1:02 pm

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:
June 9, 2023, 8:59 am
jackspratt wrote:
June 9, 2023, 8:50 am
Laan Yaa Mo wrote:
June 9, 2023, 8:18 am
What happened to Doodoo's level headed comment?
Perhaps it didn't help.
It's a difficult decision on Snowden. On the one hand, you can use the my country right or wrong argument. On the other hand, one can take the moral high ground and say he did the right thing. I know the West welcomed defectors from Communist countries as heroes. Using that latter criteria, shouldn't he be seen as a hero?
He would have the moral high ground IF he revealed what he revealed and then stayed to face his accusers, like the Pentagon Papers guy. Instead, in the name of good governance, transparency, and internet freedom he seeks asylum in... first China and eventually RUSSIA? The examples par excellence of all he claimed to oppose? And why did he flee there? If he wasn't a Russian agent from the start, what price has Russia extracted for letting him stay there? He surely now actively works to do EVERYTHING he says he was against, helping the Russians build up their domestic and international surveillance capabilities, including a years-long debrief on what he knew of our systems.

It's not a difficult decision at all. Not even a little. Traitor to the nth degree. Hang him high.

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by glalt » July 25, 2023, 7:49 pm

He certainly is no hero. I would label him as a traitor as well as an attention *****.

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by jackspratt » July 25, 2023, 8:34 pm

According to another (albeit flawed) hero via wikileaks, Snowden actually sought asylum from 21 countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... -countries

China was only one of them, and they were happy to boot him out of Hong Kong - times were very different in 2013 when Xi Jingping was just testing his dictatorial muscles. (As they were in 1971 with Ellsberg).
He surely now actively works to do EVERYTHING he says he was against, helping the Russians build up their domestic and international surveillance capabilities, including a years-long debrief on what he knew of our systems.
Any evidence to back up this speculation?

It always amuses me how many Americans swear by the protections/rights offered by their ancient constitution - until 1 or more of those protections/rights are illegally violated by the authority of the state under colour of "national security". 8)

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