Enoch Powell

I think that Enoch Powell was ahead of his time and had the right idea about immigration in the United Kingdom. The country now is suffering badly with reports that is harbouring radicals! Glad to say that I've been away from the UK for a number of years now and have no wish what so ever to return, the country is a target, with poor standards and a Government lacking creditability. Why or why does the Government not understand what they are doing is wrecking the good old GREAT BRITAIN !

People who say that Mr. Powell was a visionary are ignoring the facts.
Powell was a Conservative MP for Wolverhampton, the famous "Rivers of Blood" speech was given in nearby Birmingham. This central part of England is often referred to as The Black Country. This is due to it's position in the industrial revolution and the areas' liberal coating of soot from industrial furnaces rather than a racial slur. However many, many West Indians who had been encouraged to enter Britain to provide cheap labour (especially in transportation) had settled there. Powell's desire to repatriate immigrants centered solely on "the black man" as he referred in his speech - not on Asian or other nationals. While there have been riots in some inner city areas since his speech this have not been racial specific, rather they have been economic specific. Despair & a feeling of impotency no matter what the colour of their skin. In this Britain has indeed managed racial equality - but not one it can be proud of...

Someone put up a video or two of Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood speech' ages ago on this site. Maybe it was me.

Powell was not only discussing West Indians, he also was pointing out the cultural, economic and political threat from Asians (Indians, Pakistanis) to British values.

No matter, the main point is the Powell was warning the people of Britain that unchecked immigration from non-British areas would lead to a watering down of British standards, culture and traditions. He noted that the British would become second-class citizens in their own land, and that vigilant action would one day be taken against those British citizens who attempted to uphold, and honour, British traditions.

I do not think he stated it, but it is probable that Powell would have supported immigration from the white Dominions, and Scotland...Ireland...hmmmm (the Catholic question comes into play here). Calais would probably be the extent, outside of the above-mentioned areas, that could be reasonably expected to keep British culture intact.

Powell was a brilliant speaker and thinker, but this speech doomed his career.

While I agree that EP's speech was part of his political downfall, he did hit the mark, and yes there have been racial motivated riots in the UK, I know I was policing one a few years ago about 30 I think, they were in Liverpool, London and many other places with large (then) ethnic minorities.

The inclusion now of any member state of the EU being able to live and work in the UK will eventually water down the British culture to a state whereby it almost will no longer exist.

Although I applaud the fact thet we are religion tolerant and colour tolerant, many of them come to the UK because of that, and I am sure that too much polarisation leaning towards one particular colour or religious group will eventually spark a backlash.

The UK has changed and maybe not for the better, but let us not forget, the British are in fact a mix of not only nations but also in its history, it has assimilated many many diverse languages as well as peoples, are we perhaps going through another cultural change, many of us will not I fear be walking to see the outcome of any change and like all old-timers bemoan the changes, but change will come, in what form and how it is achieved will be the subject of many a discussion of that I am sure.
Many countries are experencing, this population migration and Cultural change, the USA for example is undergoing great change, and yes they are moaning about it as well.

I don't want to piss anybody off and I am not taking a go at Brits!

I have always been under the impression that Great Britain has been a a downhill slide once their colonization of other nations ended.

Their obligation to those former colonies seem to have put them in their present position of having to deal with immigration issues.

The USA is going through their immigration problems also as they shrink in their influence and power!

The Asians,won't have these problems because they will maintain their class system,no matter what!

Your statement certainly doesn't piss me off Stan.
The first World War did a lot to put Britain on the economic road to decline, the Second was the final nail in the coffin both from an economic point of view and a social one through the Empire. Britain is a small land mass with little in the way of natural resources except its people. So, in the past, we invaded foreign lands & with a combination of brute force & cunning removed the natural resources that they had. That there is now a price to pay for this is only correct, however unpalatable that it may seem to some.

BobHelm " Britain is a small land mass with little in the way of natural resources except its people."

Exactly the same as Japan,,,,,,,,, except the Japanese enforce their cultural identity in many ways,,,,, one being a strict immigration policy. They have absolutely no desire to be a "melting pot" or "cuturally diverse" society. They don't really care what the rest of the world thinks. It's their country and they aren't going to let the rest of the world dictate policies that would weaken their society. They view and conduct business in the same way,,, it is war and they are interested in the benefits to their society,,,, not others. The government's responsibility is to it's citizens, not the citizens of the world.
The comparison of Great Britain and Japan is very interesting,,,,,,, the fanatic dedication of the Japanese to excellence in standards of education, production, etc, is seen by them as essential to the well being, even survival of their society in the modern world. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I'm not sure Great Britain (England) is prepared to demonstrate the same dedication. Their actions and policies do not seem to bear it out.
My words above should not be constued as "bashing the Brits",,,, merely my take on the 2 different countries/societies, their similarities and their different approaches to the issues. Regards,,LL

nice post ll i agree only my piont

The Japanese colonised Korea and Taiwan (1895 or thereabouts). During the Second World War, Japan included the Philippines, Hong Kong, coastal and northern China, the Dutch East Indies, British Malaya (includes Singapore), French Indo-china (Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam), and Burma in their direct empire. Thailand was under indirect Japanese control. They tried to take India too, but the British Imperial Army (mostly composed of Indian troops) kept them at bay.

The latter bit of empire-building (the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere) did not last long owing to the American and British defeat of Japan.

The Japanese did permit a number of Koreans and Chinese to live and work in Japan, but they had few rights, and could not become Japanese citizens.

Jacksprat "I think the important point Bob makes is very valid, re the far flung reaches of the British empire - "you break it, you own it". "

Respectfully,,,, That's immaterial IMHO, except for very minor exceptions,,,, colonizers like Spain, Portugal, France, or Holland have felt no responsibility to fix what they "broke". If Great Britain feels this, that's a decision purely of their own creation,,I don't think it's universally true.

Who colonized what is beside the point, it's purely a matter of national policies and attitude toward outsiders.
I stand by my opinion that the island nations of Japan and Great Britain have many similarities with completely different social policies regarding the protection of their own unique culture.

The proof is in the pudding,,,, I haven't lived in either country,,,,, maybe Brits are just more vocal in expressing their thoughts?

I also completely reject the liberal attitude that anyone that wants to protect a unique national identity is racist and must be shouted down or treated like something found on the bottom of one's shoe.

What you say about other European countries feeling no responsibility towards their former colonies is totally incorrect LL. France has taken into its country a great many North Africans & West Africas for this reason alone. Holland has taken many immigrants from the old Dutch East Indies as does Portugal with Angola, for example. Spain alone seems not to have considered it an issue, but then its former colonists seem to have chosen the USA as their haven.
I am unsure what your comparisons between the UK & Japan are suppose to say, except that they are two completely different cultures. At the time UK felt the world was its oyster Japan was a very insular society who had no desire for anything not Japanese.

Immigration is something which has been happening for a long time; in UK, waves of immigrants have been coming ever since the Romans. Usual result is at first curiosity, then hostility followed by a slow integration. After 100 years you usually cannot tell where someone's ancestors came from, unless it is in the name. Of course, most of these early migrants were other caucasians, so hard to tell them from the english anyway. However, there were also many Africans/Afro-carribeans who settled in UK after becoming sailors; this declined considerably with steam power, but those communities were mainly integrated and inter-married by 1950. There were also enough indians in Victorian Britain that they once had an MP.

The current immigrants will integrate as long as 2 things happen - we do not allow then to become completely isolated from our society (multiculturalism is an issue here) and we do not allow minorities to become so large they can dictate future culture. Keep immigration slow and steady and there will be no long term problem.

IMHO this man had good vision on where Britain was going well before others had really thought what might be further down the road,today we here reports of british children having to accept being subjected to the learnings of the muslim ways because the larger percentage of pupils being of muslim origin within their schools.The papers and tv are full of reports of stowaways in trucks coming from france and a large influx of eastern block immigrants,it was even brought up in parliament about many immigrants getting upto £30,000 per year housing benefits(due to shortage of council housing) and lots of eastern block men claiming benefits for upto 11 children(even though those children werent even living in Britain),pity nobody took more notice many years ago,Britain is on a downhill slide and i for 1 have no real thoughts of returning to live there(but who knows what is around the corner,its still my country of birth).From what can be obtained financially for many immigrants no wonder they all want to go to BENEFITS BRITAIN.