ff:


Dead on. Momma always told me, "If it sounds to good to be true, it isn't." You got me thinking about it...


Aeri: Drop by the house, next time ur out.


R

Thanks again Firfox

You're right we'll have to go see the labour office although right now I'm still hunting to see what I can find that might back up our case when we present ourselves there. I'd be interested to see what you make of this though:
http://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/wor ... basics.php

It seems to offer an exemption based on these words:

"If you are in the temporary business of entertainment, religious, social welfare, cultural or sporting without intention to make profit and paying income tax to the government."

I think this must be the 15 day rule that Merchant Seaman was writing about.

What you quoted does not state anything about an exemption, you are reading into it what you want it to say. It says it will take this into consideration to approve the ISSUING OF A WORK PERMIT. Good luck anyways. Put 3,000 baht aside for a work permit.

Yes, you're absolutely right Merchant Seaman. I couldn't think of a better word than exemption to use.

FROM BANGKOK POST

Thank you for your email. I will get my team to look into the issue you raised. I have been to certain hotels in a Bangkok and have listened to farang bands playing and there must be laws permitting this although as you point out, acquiring permits must be time consuming. Could you please send me your contact details (mobile phone contact) in case my team would like to contact you.
Regards - Pichai.

Pichai Chuensuksawadi
Editor-in-Chief
Post Publishing - Bangkok Post, Post Today, M2F, Student Weekly
Email: [email protected], [email protected]
Mobile:: +66818372060
Editor-in-Chief Office: +6626164551, +6626164552
Editor, Bangkok Post Office: +6626164000 ext 4111
"We aim to be the best in the business of news and information in Thailand and the region, reaching out to the world"

Hi Arosolius

Hope you are well. In regards to the email from the Bangkok Post -
Just because it is happening does not mean that it is being undertaken legally. On all my travels in Thailand I have seen many people working (Pattaya /Phuket) undertaking activities that without doubt require a work permit and a registered company and it is obvious that they have neither.

This is Udon Thani and anything we do which puts us in the 'spotlight' as to speak requires caution and personally I feel needs to be undertaken legally.
I wish you all the success but knowing the Labour Office as I do and Immigration here in Udon they will follow the law to the letter. If for some insane reason you are reported and do not have all the necessary paperwork they will prosecute and you will definitely be detained.

I am just wondering if I lost the plot somewhere. This thread started with

> I've found a 100% legal way that farang musicians can play in public in Thailand without the need for a work permit. It costs next to nothing and it's easy to do.

and now reads like the OP made himself look like an idiot and has no clue what he is talking about.

Yes - No?

Absolutely correct. I was assured from 5 "credible" sources including the tax man & a lawyer that it was all 100% legal and above board. However, despite my extensive research I've found that other people seem to know more about it than me and they claim it's not legal. That's no reason to give up though so I've gone back to the drawing board and contacted a heap of other sources.
There's no pride or face saving getting in the way. If you think I look like an idiot so be it. What other people think of me is really none of my business.

Techland wrote:I am just wondering if I lost the plot somewhere. This thread started with

> I've found a 100% legal way that farang musicians can play in public in Thailand without the need for a work permit. It costs next to nothing and it's easy to do.

and now reads like the OP made himself look like an idiot and has no clue what he is talking about.

Yes - No?

How many people have gone into Immigration and asked questions......end up 'thinking' they have the answer to their question, only to find out the immigration officer didn't know what he was talking about.

I'd hardly say the guy's an idiot. Just a victim of bad info........and who among us can say it hasn't happened to them while in Thailand?

Arosolius consulted with a licensed attorney and just like the rest of us would assume that
she knew the legal ramifications regarding his request .He has worked very hard on this
and does not deserve any negative comments on his efforts from any of us .

Harpman Udon

seagulls wrote:Arosolius consulted with a licensed attorney and just like the rest of us would assume that she knew the legal ramifications regarding his request. He has worked very hard on this and does not deserve any negative comments on his efforts from any of us.

Harpman Udon

Not necessarily a good assumption. And there is no guarantee that the government will agree with the attorney's opinion.

Maybe it was remiss of me to assume that Attorneys would use "written Law Codes" and not opinions

I use well qualified lawyers here in Thailand ( BKK and Korat ) 3000 Baht, u get about 45 Mins, max.

I would be using a lawyer who has got expat experience in immigration / visas / permit etc, not a cheap local job.

The cheaper a deal is , the less u get from it ...

Having posted, I also think that the knowledge on this Forum has indirectly stopped a member from perhaps, entering a grey area of working etc

seagulls wrote:Maybe it was remiss of me to assume that Attorneys would use "written Law Codes" and not opinions

If it were that easy, we wouldn't need lawyers. The problem is that it'snot. Many, no, most laws are subject to interpretation.

STORY SO FAR

There's a lot to get through in this thread if you're thinking of posting something on the last page. So in brief, so that people don't get their knickers in a knot trying to understand, I'll summarize the story so far.

• I knew I wasn't allowed to play music legally in a public place so I didn't do it. Instead, I tried to find a way that I could.

• I sent out a lot of emails to other farang musicians in Thailand, to Philippino agents that send bands to Thailand and to musical agents in Thailand who hire our farangs to hotels and resorts.

• One of Philippino agents & one Thai musical agent told me that they get their musicians a taxpayer ID card and that allows them to play on a casual basis. The hirer (hotel or whatever) deducts the tax, sends it to the tax man and all is OK.

• I consulted a lawyer who read a lot of paper and made a few phone calls and told me it was OK, legal, above board but advised me to make out a hire contract, have the hotel or bar sign it & keep it visible when I'm playing.

• I engaged a well connected lady to come with me to the taxation office to see about getting a taxpayer ID card. She has connections high up in another - relative to the subject - Government department. She said she didn't want to waste my time so she called the other department who told her that what I intended to do was legal. So we went to the taxation office. The man behind the desk told me that what I was going to do (earn money casually & pay the tax office) was legal and that a lot of teachers do it.

• I posted this information here on the Map thinking I'd found out a legal way to pay in public and another contributor then told us the he already had a taxpayer ID and he was told it was legal too.

• Now I'm told by other, better informed, contributors that what I thought was legal isn't.

Got the story so far?

NOW, THERE'S NO NEED FOR A POST MORTEM ON WHAT I DID WRONG. I'M WRONG, I ACCEPT IT. THOSE WHO WANT TO PULL ME TO PIECES CAN REST THEIR CASES.

What we farang musicians and signers need is constructive comment. Negative comments are welcomed, they just need to be constructive. Right now Sunbelt Asia's lawyers - via Stickman - are looking into the subject as is Bangkok Post. Tourism Thailand have been asked to comment too.

This thread has so far generated 1600 odd views so I think somebody out there just might have some creative ideas. Here's one that's already been put to Sun Belt Asia's law firm so there's no need to comment specifically on it:

We can play legally at private parties but what constitutes a private party? Can we have a private party in a bar? What if we hire a bar for a night, call it a private party by invitation only, give away printed invitations at the door and people bring their own beer which they could purchase on the sidewalk opposite the bar or at the bar next door?

Above all us 15 or so farang musicians and singers want to play out and be legal.

So please let's have some ideas.

Its a stupid question from me, BUT have you written to Immigration and ask for a case review etc........

Verbal message from local authorities arent worth the paper they are written on...

U can pay tax, like I do etc, I have a valid ID number for my SME , BUT I cant work. When u open up an SME , u are not required to show a Work Permit if an Alien is a registered Director of the company.

Its immigration that give u the approval to work, how its then taxed after is the easy bit....

No, that's not a stupid question Wazza. We have to go see immigration and the Labour office but first we want some more info on Thai law as it pertains because we may only get one chance to present our case.
A stupid question from me though What's an SME?

If earning money is not a necessary requirement, why can't interested Bars have "Open Mike" nights where anyone can join in. Any Farang can go to any Karoke joint and leagally sing his arse off. Why couldn't the same Farang go to a place where "open mike" is playing and join in. He could even pay a small fee to the establishment which means he is a customer. This worked well at Irish Clock, no fees but local band hired as a base.