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From Ugly to Just Plain American

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Re: From Ugly to Just Plain American

Postby jingjai » January 12, 2011, 2:00 pm

Ray, I highlighted in red what I think the gist of the article is.

This is my take on the subject:
As an American, who grew up in post-war America of the 50's & 60's, we were led to believe, by our country and the rest of the world, that America was indeed #1. Number one in everything. And, as Americans, we were special.
The world was beating a path to our door in the 50's & 60's, to buy our products, to listen to our music, basically to emulate everything American. Or, so it seemed.
We used to make jokes about the "Made in Japan" label.
The majority of people in America drove American cars in the 50's & 60's. The majority of people in America in the 50's & 60's wore American style clothes. It seemed the entire world wanted a pair of Levis, to listen to Elvis, and to drive a Chevrolet, so to speak. As a kid, all my bicycles were American made.
Is it any wonder that my generation grew up with a superiority complex?
It wasn't until the mid-70's, that I began to look at things differently. Today, a big majority of American people drive cars made by a foreign owned company, wear clothes made from all over the globe, etc., etc.
Basically, we don't feel that special anymore. It's not good nor bad. It just is.
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Re: From Ugly to Just Plain American

Postby gulfman » January 12, 2011, 4:15 pm

rayc1965 wrote: I read this article .............


rayc1965,
Have you ever read 'The Ugly American', or are you perhaps too young - speculation as I haven't a clue as to your age?

I too thought that the original article was positive about Americans.
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Re: From Ugly to Just Plain American

Postby rayc1965 » January 12, 2011, 6:43 pm

It seem to me that this author was referring to 30 years ago, which would be approximately 1980. If we are referring to the 50's and 60's, or earlier, then are we talking about first or second generation immigrants from Europe and other parts of the world who migrated to the States that the author is claiming were arrogant? There is no doubt that the upper class in the US had a hi so complex during that period, but what about Russian communist leaders or even the upper class European Nations, during this period? Did they not possibly have the same attitude during this period? I believe the entire world has been humbled the past 15-20 years due mainly to the uprising Asian economy. Has not the pound taken the same hit as the dollar during this time? Like I said before, maybe I am reading too much into the article, but I feel it was offensive to a degree. And for this auhor to single out Americans, just because he claims to be from here, and make no referrance to any other culture based on his extensive travel around the world, was also offensive. I am 45, and I can tell you if this author was basing his "opinion" on American attitude abroud during the beginning of the 80's, he is refering to the upper class American citizen, because the beginning of the 80's was a very very bad time for middle class America and the majority didn't have the funds to travel abroad to show off their arrogance; at least not where I was from, they were tough times.
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Re: From Ugly to Just Plain American

Postby gulfman » January 12, 2011, 9:30 pm

‘The Ugly American’ was required school reading when I was at school in UK inthe early 60s and unfortunately the stereotype loud mouthed character was all to evident. Remember, that this was the generation that had just won the second world war, founded ‘corporate’ America and ended up the richest nation in the world. And they had started to travel.

I read into the article that this type of stereotype no longer exists, as the average American is now much more sophisticated and worldly wise. Personally, having worked extensively with Americans from all over the USA over the past forty years I have found them to be pretty much like everyone else !!!

However, there is a small English joke from that era that might (hopefully) amuse you.

Wilmer and his wife were in England visiting the Tower of London, and as they toured the ‘Major Keep’ Wilmer exclaimed to his wife “Will ya just look at that goddamned lawn – it’s perfect, I just gotta know how to make our lawn like that”
So he turned to one of the Beefeaters in attendance and asked how they got such a lawn.
“Well, Sir”, replied the Beefeater, “It’s really quite simple. You cut it: water it & roll it. Cut it: water it and roll it. And after eight hundred years you will have a perfect lawn”. :D
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Re: From Ugly to Just Plain American

Postby rayc1965 » January 13, 2011, 12:07 am

Well now that changes things. I was under the impression that Mr. Gregory Rodriguez was the author of this titled manuscript. So what you are saying that the titled piece originated in the UK? I still don't agree with Mr. Rodriguez's assessment of the time frame that Americans became humbled. Thank you for clearing that up gulfman. I was not around in the 40's or 50's, and neither was Mr. Rodriguez, so it is impossible for me to comment on his views.
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Re: From Ugly to Just Plain American

Postby rayc1965 » January 13, 2011, 1:02 am

The views of the original author that is; I still believe Mr. Rodrigez's is way out of line considering the time frame he is referring too and the reasons for Americans being so humble these days.
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Re: From Ugly to Just Plain American

Postby BobHelm » January 13, 2011, 7:33 am

rayc1965 wrote:So what you are saying that the titled piece originated in the UK?


NO it is very much an American Book

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ugly_American

The Ugly American is the title of a 1958 political novel by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer. The novel became a bestseller, was influential at the time, and is still in print. The book is a quasi-roman à clef; that is, it presents, in a fictionalized guise, the experience of Americans in Southeast Asia (Vietnam) and allegedly portrays several real people who are represented by pseudonyms.


Eugene L. Burdick (December 12, 1918–July 26, 1965), was an American political scientist, novelist, and non-fiction writer, co-author of The Ugly American (1958) and Fail-Safe (1962) and author of The 480 (1965). [1]

He was born in Sheldon, Iowa. His family moved to Los Angeles, California when he was 4. [1] He attended Stanford University and Oxford University, earning a Ph.D. in psychology. He worked at the department of political science at the University of California. In 1956 his first novel, The Ninth Wave, was published. At the close of the 1950's, he was among the first members of the Society for General Systems Research. He died of a heart attack in 1965 at the age of 46.


William Julius Lederer, Jr. (March 31, 1912 – December 5, 2009) was an American author
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Re: From Ugly to Just Plain American

Postby rayc1965 » January 13, 2011, 12:35 pm

Good enough..but still well before Mr. Rodriguez even thought of being conceived
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Re: From Ugly to Just Plain American

Postby jingjai » January 13, 2011, 3:34 pm

You could always get a copy the movie version:
1963 starring Marlon Brando: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056632/
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