FYI: posts you object to will be removed if you wish

I had wished NOT to take this item to the public forum. However, this being the second time that my posts have been censored, along with other posters contributing to the same threads, I feel that readers of this forum should be aware of the house rules here at udonmap.com.

Apparently, ANY member who requests that ANY posts be removed, for WHATEVER reason, will be complied with. Therefore, if the thread is about you, or your absence, or if a thread mentions you, and you don't like it for whatever reason, just ask the admin to delete it and he will.

This should solve many arguments/disputes/disagreements here on the forum. Great! It's a beautiful thing.

The following is quoted correspondence from me to Lee, and vice versa. (In my stupidity I couldn't figure out how to use the quote button from the PM window.)


nemesis wrote:
[quote]
Lee;

I am forced to inquire yet again as to why my posts, and others', are disappearing.
[end quote]

[quote]
Lee wrote:
We respect all members of this board and if a member decides they want something removed for whatever reason we're happy to assist. I was asked to move this thread by the member who appears to be the subect matter of this topic.

Thanks for your understanding.

Lee
[end quote]

As I am quite sure that this post will be removed as well, it may also be the last time that I ever post here. It would not surprise me to find my account suspended. Doc, a poster who has proven that he is the "world's foremost authority," seems to have the mods, etc. shaking in their shoes. This is now the second occasion, the first being a discussion of fake degree sites. He was involved in that thread as well, and was particularly sensitive as I remember, but only MY posts were deleted. The admins told me it was a mistake, and in their defense did replace the information, albeit in a location where it makes no sense.

For the last year I have seen many posts that I would consider objectionable from Doc, and I'm sure that I'm not alone. However, a little heat turned up under him and he simply uses influence to cool it down. IMHO, this is highly irregular behavior from forum moderators and admins.

Some of you may find THIS post objectionable.

"I'm just calling it as I see it."
-guess who

i myself have had answers to no questions

Clarify please?

The rules of this forum clearly state that you will not question the action of the moderators. Especially on the public forum.
I think you will find that overall the other members are content with the methods used in moderating and we try to be as fair as possible.
We generally discuss between ourselves which posts are 'close to the line' and use editing deleting as a last resort.
You really have no idea the amount of work that goes on in the background to keep this forum a happy and well liked forum.
There is little thanks - only criticism.
I strongly suggest you take your complaint up with Lee - the webmaster by the PM system where I am sure he will explain to you in a reasonable and rational way - the actions taken.

Doc certainly does not have me 'shaking in my shoes' I can guarantee you that and I am sure the other mods will say the same.

Its quite obvious you have a gripe - please resolve it with the person concerned as mentioned above.

Nemisis, I would reiterate and agree with Paul's comments.

Also, I too do not agree with your comments about Doc, I have had a many a run in with him on the Forum and don't agree with many things that he posts (in fact I think many feel similarly! ), and I too am certainly not afraid to say so.

I think it inappropriate that you choose to air your disagreements/grievances with Lee in the open Forum, by doing so you are contravening Forum rules and inviting your post to be edited, to remove inappropriate material.

Please do not air your grievances in the open Forum. Take them up with those concerned by private PM.

Thanks

I agree with all Paul wrote. Most carried out their complaints vis PM which I see is not your way of doing. IF that is your wish, then that is why you might be moderated.

In response to your comments; thank you. I did not know where to post my grievance; I thought the open forum was the correct place. It will not happen again.

To Paul: I have no issue with you. In fact it is my opinion that you are the most even-handed of the mods. In response to your suggestion that I discuss this with Lee, I did, in fact, take the matter up with Lee via PM, and was unsatisfied with the explanation. Should I continue to PM him when it is apparent that he believes the right thing was done, ie. a member asked him to remove the thread, and he did? Read his quoted PM to me. It is his position that if a member asks for something to be removed "for whatever reason" the forum will be "happy to assist". What was I to do? That's not exactly the epitome of journalistic excellence. It is clear that the policy of this forum is to do so. I mean, he's the boss, and it is a moderated forum, after all, even though it's named "Open."

As for the "shaking in your shoes" comment; it was directed at no one in particular; just at the notion that a poster, well-known for his pomposity and his objectionable comments, could make such a request and have it honored. He got a "bit of his own medicine," he did, the good doctor, and ran straight to mommy. Somehow, unlike others who have gone head to head with him, I pushed his buttons in such a way that the truth hurt. Was that so bad?

Arjay: I also have no issue with you. Of course I know that the mods will stand together; I have been one before in trade forums back home and I am well aware of the effort and the voluntary time spent.

Banpaeng: The first time my posts were deleted, (coincidentally in another topic involving the same individual), you were the last moderator to post in the thread. When my posts, and ONLY my posts, were removed from the thread and it was locked, I wrote a PM to you and requested an explanation. I could show you the PM if you wish. I got no response from you. I waited for 2-3 days and when I concluded that none was forthcoming, I contacted Lee by PM. After several PMs went back and forth, I was told that it had been an accident. I requested that the posts be restored. I was told that was impossible. I asked what else could be done. I was told that the best that could be done was to edit an earlier post, and add the information there. Since that was the final word, the info was inserted into a post in such a location that int is meaningless. Well mai pen rai. I accepted that it was an accident at that time. I am now reconsidering that acceptance.

As you all can see, I have attempted to deal with this without going to the public forum. Do not accuse me of not being a gentleman. If you were me, would you not be a bit "put off"? To recap, my posts have, on two occasions, been deleted. Both threads were coincidentally involving the same character. I attempted to get an explanation of admin actions repeatedly BY PM, and on both occasions I was given an explanation that is marginally acceptable at best.

If any of my comments here are out of line I apologize; however, I'm not sure that others on this forum would agree that I have been such a bad boy.

Thank you for your time.

You must have been a "Bad Boy" I got some of mine deleted but with good reason " Ki Mao"

Quote yourself

"""""my posts have, on two occasions, been deleted. Both threads were coincidentally involving the same character. I attempted to get an explanation of admin actions repeatedly BY PM, and on both occasions I was given an explanation that is marginally acceptable at best."""

I have to go along with the mods and Lee on this one. The removed thread was over the line and the main subect had already, allegedly, removed himself from the forum so what's the point in ripping the guy? Not many of us want to see this turned into a flame forum, anyway. This forum has always been a friendly and informative place to visit. Hopefully, it will stay that way.

Nemisis, in defence of Lee and to maybe further clarify the situation, - maybe Lee didn't exlain his stance to you as well as he could have, in your exchange of PM's with him. A thread or post would not be deleted or removed simply because another member disagreed with it's content. It would be removed because it was felt it had flamed, insulted or been rude to another member. I.e. it had over-stepped the mark, or gone too far.

The fact that someone simply disagreed with a view point or the content would not be reason to delete a post.

Whilst I personally did not see the thread in question, Polehawk seems to have summed up the situation in his preceding post above.

i welcomed and enjoyed both threads, especially since 'intentionally wanting to hit a raw nerve' was posted by subject of thread. thus voilating forum rules and ethics, and own statement of not being personal attacks on another respected member. who graciously did the right thing, as others started to, and that was ignore the source.

playing moderators advocate, i can see their point, and i'm actually surprised the threads lasted as long as they did. especially since, again, playing advocate, if looking at posting history, all post were to those threads and can be perceived as an attack, no matter how deserved, but a bit in violation.

i'm sure this thread will be locked and deleted shortly, but was educational as to rules and moderation of thread, as i'm guessing most of us, inclusive, simply check 'accept' when signing up for anything and are way too lazy to read fine print. now we all know the rules.

but i did enjoy them, and i think a little light banter is enjoyed and appreciated by all, but that fine line, admittedly is violated occasionally, myself included, sometimes, but well tolerated by the unappeciated moderators. they are very tolerant at times, and do an excellent job. i have even been spanked a couple times, @#$^&%

but, like paul says, free spankings here, beats paying for it.

I appear to have missed the hue and cry as someone has decreed I cannot see it. I assume one of the key players was a male of the American persuasion who was the self acknoledged expert on every subject on earth and someone else. The American has been conspicous by his absence from the forum but is still a member. Am I correct.

John

in that case you also, as the vocal minority, seemed to enjoy it as long as it was here. yes, your assumption is correct. there is the usually night market meeting tonight if wishing to catch up, besides solving the worlds problems, we get to talk about and razz each other. although hopefully, talk on this subject will be short, as the subject in question, does not deserve that much acknowledgement of existence i kill me

oh yea, this is going to be a short lived thread

I don't have a vote, but I am pleased that the moderators are doing their job. I think that the recently deleted thread was in poor taste and am gald to see it gone.

Having said that, I think it would be good practice, if technically achievable, to leave a notice when deletions are made, for the sake of completeness of the record, if nothing else.

OK. Here is my current stance on the thread, and the current discussion.

I have been contacted by Doc, and have responded by PM. The complete contents will not be disclosed to anyone here, nor will I quote from his PM, as I have no permission to do so, and he is not a moderator or admin here. I believe the mods will receive a copy of my PM from Doc, who has already sent them a copy of his own PM. However, here is a bit that should indicate my position.

[quote from nemesis to DOC]

I have watched for some time your postings and am amazed at the wealth of knowledge that you believe you have. If we all told the truth, we would say that we all know a lot about very few things, and a little about a lot of things. That is my own personal credo. Did I try to push your buttons? Yes. Did I push the envelope on the forum? Yes. Did I feel that you should be "knocked down" a bit? Yes. That's why I originally posted. You do have a habit of leaving yourself wide open for negative commentary. I merely dished some out.

My current issue is with the conduct of the board staff. You just happen to have been involved in the threads. I would have done the same if it were a different poster. According to Lee, in writing to me, he deleted the thread because [quote]"I was asked to move this thread by the member who appears to be the subect matter of this topic." [sic, end quote] If you did not ask for it to be deleted, then who did? Is he a liar?

I personally do not feel that is proper on a forum, and I let them know it. But hey, it's their forum, and they can do what they want. I just wanted to get my opinion in.

[end quote]



If arjay is correct, then Lee didn't accurately represent the reason for his actions. OK, but what was I to do when the admin of the board submitted it to me?

Was I to say, "Thank you, sir, may I have another?"

PS. I cast the first vote for LA as moderator. LA: I appreciate your even-handed opinion of the situation. I do believe that if you had said I was 100% in the wrong, I would have ceased and desisted. You didn't, and I thank you.