Housing Projects

Le Cellini's target is local Thais, yuppies so to speak in that they are mostly second or third generation business owners aged 30-45, with kids, who don't want to live in shophouses like their parents did, and want to live relatively close to their businesses and to schools particularly Udon Pittiya High School. Sounds like a nice group of neighbors to me, to have my children grow up with.

Three foreigners bought to date. With another 15 houses in Phase Two, I'd be surprised if more than 3-4 additional foreigners buy here, and bet it will remain majority Thai.

Khondam, does it show more sense than money, to invest 5-6 milion baht (of which only 500,00 for the land) a few kilometers outside the ring road surrounded by slums and rice fields where most of the neighbors live in a dwelling worth less than a million baht, and make few thousand baht per month? Honestly, that sounds closer to your own definition of a slum mansion.

OK, agreed our project is indeed an oasis, and right outside the gate and walls is Udon Thani in all it's glory. However all the land around us, for several kilometers, has a high intrinsic value. This is why it is expensive, location location location.

The dificultly with land even closer to the city center is the value is now so high, crazy high compared to how it looks, that it is virtually impossible to get any return whatsoever on it's value, unless a commercial property. Prove me wrong, educate me, let's see some numbers on price per wah and build costs, for a unit price.

Khondam wrote.
"I too have visited the pre-made concrete wunderland communities and found them sorely lacking in quality of construction, layout, and function. Walls cracking, dead spaces (ie balconies that never get used and oddly placed rooms or hallway areas), 1-2 meter concrete slab for a "yard", poor insulation, etc. One eventually realizes that much of what one sees is a facade. I need the real thing, TYVM."

My biggest regret I bought one of those concrete bunkers, with hindsight I should have done the same as Khondam.
The neighbour who has opened up a tyre yard in his front garden has ruined it for us. So we can't sell up.

Got the cracks, door handles failing, three so far, the spring breaks in the barrel. Most of the neighbours have the same problem. Paint going black on the walls. The houses are so close together you can hear the neighbour next door taking a crap.

I don't remember the exact quote, but a while back someone on this forum mention the cost of a rai on the lakefront in that area (across the railroad tracks). You'd be paying dearly!

There's a stand-alone house almost directly across from Carrefour. It was built about 12 years ago. I don't know if it's the owner or a renter, but the place is a recycle collection point and the junk is piled up as high as the second floor. Immediately next door is a rather nice-looking new subdivision. t.i.t.....if there are any zoning laws here, I wouldn't hold my breath hoping they're enforced.

That land lakefront across the tracks, have looked many times and there are a couple nice houses and one big new one under construction. Some large empty land plots fronting the road and park, however don't see "For Sale" signs on them. I'd guess the price per rai is 10 million baht if not more, if on that frontage road. And still have some dilapidated shacks for neighbors, and unknown future commercial enterprises will set up.

Nice views and environment are very hard to secure in a place like Udon, especially in town.

KHONDAHM wrote:I too have visited the pre-made concrete wunderland communities and found them sorely lacking in quality of construction, layout, and function. Walls cracking, dead spaces (ie balconies that never get used and oddly placed rooms or hallway areas), 1-2 meter concrete slab for a "yard", poor insulation, etc. One eventually realizes that much of what one sees is a facade. I need the real thing, TYVM.

These are the same issues I have with most Thai constructed homes. I used to think that these problems were the result of poor planning. After undergoing a large remodeling project several years ago, I realized these problems are a result of NO PLANNING.

Often, I will look at the exterior of a new home and be very impressed with it's design and appearance. Then walk inside and see and see all the problems Khondahm talks about. I'm convinced that the Thai building contractors have carefully studied photographs of western styled homes appearing on magazine covers, etc. and then copy that design perfectly. But then have absolutely no idea what to do inside. The Thai philosophy is that it's the package that's important, not what's inside.

Bingo, Bamakmak. That is exactly what they do. Notice how they continue to use artist representations for marketing even years AFTER the wunderland has been built. The reality is that the reality is nothing at all like the idyllic dream home in the marketing materials. "Look how beautiful the kitchen and bathrooms are!" But nevermind that there are no water shutoff valves for when the plastic faucets and water heads fail. Nevermind that soon the methane and other gases will be spewing from the shower and sink drains because there is no u-joint between it and the septic tank. Nevermind that you will be growing a festering fungus forest because there was no silicone used around and under the sinks. Nevermind that everything in the kitchen is on a single circuit without any ground wire. Nevermind that the water pipes are of the cheapest quality and they ran it straight through a still open hole in the wall which will be used by vermin later. Nevermind that there was no layer of plastic used anywhere under the concrete floor (a sponge) so when it rains, the water seeps under the house into rooms and/or up walls. I could go on and on. Nevermind any of the stuff that matters. Just look at our pretty pastel colors. Surely anything pastel and bunched together must be modern and of high quality.

One thing I have observed is that many Thais have no idea just how much their new home really sucks. They may have a village shack as their point of reference, so that's like going from a bike to a Tata mobile. Great car! They're happy with impressing their friends and family with how big the rooms are - nevermind that there is no modern furniture to go along with that "modern" house. Banging your head on a staircase overhang or as ending the 50 degree angle steps is just accepted. Wood masking the concrete monoliths that pass for steps here - I'll never get over that one. But, hey, thousands of these "concrete bunkers" are sold weekly so who am I to say they really suck (base)balls?

So rather than bytch about it, I'm doing something about it.

The homes we all miss from back home are on the way with great location, quality, views, privacy, space, etc. at a price most can afford. Quality is high and pricing will be relatively low because we are actually BUILDING them - not manufacturing them. If I screw up, it means I may have to end up living in it so every home is being built as if I will have to live in it personally. Heck, even the wall sockets have been turned the "correct" way. Usufruct no problem. Working with someone needing cash outside of closing on a bank finance to buy some new furnishings or whatever no problem.

Not trying to compete with Cellini (as RCT stated, yuppie Thais are there core - we're targeting those like me who just want a good American house plopped down into Thailand). Not doing custom builds (but we could accommodate modifications on a standard build). That's all I will say about it here...

Ok, I can't resist. . Some of the amenities are
mentioned in previous posts, but others include central air, ceiling/roof insulation R-value in excess of R38, vaulted ceilings, independent guest quarters with it's own entrance and bathroom, private road, a kitchen to die for complete with bar, sunken den/entertainment room, a special area for the Budda of your choice, cable TV sockets in multiple locations (no more stringing it across the room), whole-house water filter AND a UV equipped drinking water filter (goes nice with the double door easy open refrigerator's door mounted water and ice dispenser, laundry room, a balcony off the master bedroom you WILL use. Frequently. The orientation of the house relative to the sun is perfect and the view is really that good. Automatic sprinkler turns on and off at night to keep that landscaped lawn green. Oh, I could go on but that's all I will say. Really, this time.

For what it is worth, my two pennyworth, when I came here I looked at many many housing projects new and old, and I was amazed that the Thais seem quite capable of turning what was a nice place into a dump, due mainly to their percieved lack of pride in their environment. I looked at PK housing projects both in town and outside, at many along the Ring road and the Sakon Nakhon/Khon Kaen Roads, and no matter what the price the same applies to all, eventually a person will open a shop/or a business and spoil it for the neighbours, estate controls mainly vanish when the estate is finished, then the place becomes full of rubbish/old cars bikes you name it, oh and the houses are built too close together, even in Cellini.

So I looked and found a place with a reasonably large plot, and to stave off further problems bought the land next to me so that no one could build on it, there is a road down one side of the plot, and a road down the other side, I choose my neighbours not the other way around. problem is that it is 10 k's from Big 'C' but it is worth it, quiet,clean,occasionally hear the local motorbikes and cars, apart from that OK. Housing projects are allright, until finished then they go down the downward spiral, also if one is talking about the Cellini, then I would hazard a guess that in 10 years time it will not be the same as now, I have a friend that owns a housing project and he lives on the site and ensures all is well most of the time but he still has this lax attitude to the estate proper, when he dies it will go downhill I am sure of that.

Khondam, do you own a housing project?

Do tell details, at least give a name, so those interested can check it out. I bet your target market are readers of this forum and the home prices are in the budget range of most of them.

There is a definate lack of discussion on specific projects by other names, only poo-pooing the value of the most infamous/expensive project where I happen to live, which because of price only targets the top few percent of buyers whether they be Thai or foreigner.

There is a land plot for sale facing the lake across the tracks, my wife said 25,000 baht per wah for 500 wah, (ten million baht per rai) so someone can pick it up for only 12,500,000 baht. Within 200 meters down the same road, PPD Builder is putting up a new tropical style villa on what appears to be about three rai.

If I ever own a housing project in Thailand, please shoot me.

If any is interessed, I can supply a compleate set of engineerings drawings to a European/Thai style house apr. 200 sq.m
it is raised on 36 pillars 1,5m above ground level it has 3 bedrooms 2 bathrooms a big living roon a western style kitchen and 2 smaller rooms for office + a storeroom containing all electronics etc. The finished house can be showed too. (From outside only)
Drawings done by a Danish architekt, building price aprox.1.7 mBath
Contact pr. e-mail only: desecam_intl@hotmail.com

Not that I'd doubt the ability of anyone being able to build anything they want in Udon, but the quality of anything you build here won't be apparent until the house is a few years old and the builder is not 'your builder' anymore.
The standards are slowly creeping up, but more likely than not, the contractor is going to hire the cheapest labor he can find. And the cheapest labor isn't worried about the outcome two or three years down the road.
My humble advise to anyone building here is: if you can't be on site every day of the building to check the quality of the workmanship, you shouldn't build here.

Personally, I prefer to build my own house as opposed to buying pre-built in a complex. I think you get better value for money this way and I prefer the relative peace and quiet of living outside the town.
I agree with parrot about Thai houses deteriorating quickly. One of the reasons I chose my perspective builder was that he was happy to show me around several houses that he had built over the previous 7 years. He is obviously proud of his teams workmanship. None of the houses looked to have aged very much. He was also the only builder of about 6, who wanted to see our plot of land before giving an estimate.

Galee...can you give information on how to contact your builder?