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Is America becoming a 3rd World economy?

General off-topic debates and discussions forum.

Re: Is America becoming a 3rd World economy?

Postby cookie » September 17, 2010, 11:19 am

I wouldn't go that far to say that the US is becoming a 3rd world economy,
but when you take a closer look at the census report on income, poverty, health insurance,... :shock: :shock:

these numbers clearly show that there is something radically wrong in the US society:

the new census numbers just showed:

- 43.6 million US citizens were living in poverty in 2009 :shock: :shock:

This is a new 51 record !!!!!!!!
The number of people living in poverty has climbed to 14.3 percent of Americans

the national poverty rate of 14.3 percent, up from 13.2 percent in 2008, was the highest since 1994.


these frightening numbers of poverty could even be higher:

Were it not for federal intervention in the form of extended unemployment insurance benefits, 3.3 million more people would have fallen into poverty last year, said David Johnson, the chief of the Census Bureau's division on housing and household economics.

Food stamp benefits under the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program helped keep 2.3 million more people out of poverty.




-The number of people lacking health insurance rose from 46.3 million to 50.7 million :shock: :shock: :shock:


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/09/16/100679/recession-sent-millions-into-poverty.html
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Re: Is America becoming a 3rd World economy?

Postby jackspratt » September 18, 2010, 3:57 pm

Jockey in an earlier post you said this (and I am using this only as an example of the absurdity of you statement about Israelis controlling the US Government)

Even the head of the US Homeland Security is Israeli!


- Michael Chertoff is not the head of US Homeland Security - Janet Napolitano is, and has been Secretary for the past 20 months -and is a Methodist. Chertoff was Secretary under Bush.

- Chertoff, even when he was Secretary, was not, and has never been an Israeli citizen, and was probably not even entitled to it under the very broad citizenship laws of Israel.

And so it goes on with most of the names you list above. Not all Jews are Israelis, and in fact, not all Jews are entitled to be Israelis (as dual citizens or otherwise).

Don't believe everything you read on the conspiracy sites - it can turn you crazy. :D
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Re: Is America becoming a 3rd World economy?

Postby UdonExpat » September 30, 2010, 7:54 am

All the statistics and anecdotal evidence shows that the US middle class is shrinking, the poor class is growing, and the wealthy are taking a proportionately bigger share of the wealth.

The wealthy, through their media and purchasing of politicians have framed the debate to fall upon the shoulders of the poor and middle class. Too much spending on entitlements, benefits, lazy people, etc.

On the surface this appeals to those of us who worked all our lives and see our promised easy retirement fading before our eyes. Social security benefits are now under fire and risk being reduced and in some cases abolished. It's not that there isn't enough money, it just that it's in the wrong hands. The wealthy have it and want a bigger share. They're going to continue to take it from us, the poor and middle class.

The Republican Party has long championed this transfer of wealth to the rich. Unfortunately, the Democratic Party is left with the people who recognize the primary agenda of the Republicans, but have little else that they can agree upon. Consequently, they don't have the organizational power and most importantly, the money that gets poured into helping Republicans in the political process.

America's Elites Further Separate Themselves From Everyone Else

Jonathan Weiler, Professor of International Studies, UNC Chapel Hill
Posted: September 29, 2010 04:35 PM

Last year at this time, I discussed the Great Disconnect -- the degree to which debates about pressing policy issues were being framed by the class perspectives of the people who shape those debates -- politicians, pundits, academics and the like. I wrote:

To borrow Christopher Lasch's phrase, what we've witnessed for thirty-odd years now is a revolt -- of the elites against the masses -- whether in journalism, or academia or in the corridors of political power. In this revolt, the elite professional strata most responsible for shaping our political and economic discourse have at once grown richer and, predictably, have increasingly articulated an ideological worldview justifying their privileged positions (Robert Frank's book, The Winner Take All Society, aptly captured many of these dynamics over a decade ago). The priorities they've articulated -- business-friendly economic policies (including a generally knee-jerk hostility to unionism and uncritical support for "free" trade), so-called moderation, centrism and prudence in addressing major social problems (with a tendency to focus on the necessity of individual behavioral changes and an aversion to significant government intervention in the economy except when it comes to bailing out major financial interests), a concern for bi-partisanship and civility in elite discourse -- make perfect sense for people who enjoy full material security and all of the perks associated with professional prestige and opportunity.

A year ago, the major substantive policy issue was health care reform and the contours of that policy discussion followed these class lines. A year later, the most significant public policy issue under discussion is the continued stagnation of the economy. But the class dimensions underlying the current debate are the same as the ones I wrote about a year ago. Paul Krugman uses the term "pain caucus" to describe the growing chorus of well-placed and well-respected people who believe that we have to cut spending even in the face of continued economic stagnation and growing immiseration. New data show that poverty is at a fifteen year high and inequality at an all-time high. And yet it has become a more-than-respectable mainstream view that we're too far in debt to spend more money. This version of respectability is deeply informed by class. It prioritizes appearance and comportment in the form of fiscal responsibility, though a very particular kind of fiscal responsibility that largely overlooks the reckless policies that have made the rich super-rich at the expense of everybody else (and it can't be said often enough -- David Cay Johnston's work makes clear that the explosion of wealth among the already very-rich is coming at the expense of everybody else). That's because when wealthy interests successfully lobby Congress to rig policies in their favor, often far from public view, they're playing an old gentleman's game. By contrast, when people plead for the government to help the poor, well they're just grubby free-loaders looking for a handout (and their advocates dirty hippies or "elitists" who think they "know better.")

The Obama-appointed deficit commission reflects these dynamics well. Its nineteen members have deliberated behind closed doors on what a growing number of people believe will be a proposed package of "reforms" to include cuts in people's benefits. Of course, no one on the commission will be relying entirely on social security for their retirement income, whereas a growing proportion of Americans will.

This particular Brahmin version of fiscal rectitude also requires relative mumness about our profligate military spending, since the national security state and its relationship to American capital abroad benefits no one so much as it does our globalized political and economic elites (it sure doesn't serve ordinary American workers particularly well) and because men of affairs know that gentlemanly manliness requires a strong hand abroad (Especially when the class dimensions of our war-related casualties are so clear).

The new ideology of fiscal pruning in the face of tenacious and growing economic suffering is the economic version of American militarism. In both economic and military affairs, cloistered and coddled elites, whose personal security will never be threatened, continue to act with more and more "toughness" to put other people in harm's way in pursuit of abstract "principles" whose concrete benefits these elites can barely coherently explain. In economic policy, it's the specter of inflation, or an inevitable revolt by the bond market, though there's no evidence that either of these developments is at all likely in the near future. In military affairs, it's the perpetuation of multiple occupations and a global military presence presumably deployed to fight terror despite the fact that there is no good evidence that such a military effort is having any tangible, positive impact in that fight and plenty of evidence that it's only making things worse.

But that's how the Great Disconnect increasingly works -- that people of great means and material security continue to insist on policies that it's in everyone's interest that we adopt policies which will not, in any way, affect their personal circumstances, but will affect profoundly and adversely the circumstances of a growing swath of ordinary Americans.


Jonathan Weiler's second book, Authoritarianism and Polarization in American Politics, co-authored with Marc Hetherington, was published in 2009 by Cambridge University Press.
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Re: Is America becoming a 3rd World economy?

Postby nkstan » September 30, 2010, 9:59 am

It is jealousy and ignorance that make people think that because the seemingly absurd riches that the very very rich hoard,in the developed Nations,is somehow unfair and detrimental to the welfare of that Nation!
These developed Nations are not the same as developing Nations that still ude Class and patronage to maintain the Wealth of their Nation and hold the poor in bongafge w/o opportunity to advance economicly!
The developed Nations thrive because opportunity is available to all those that are willing to sacrifice personal comfort zones,change locales if necessary and strive strive strive,rather than whine whine whine!
Those that are poor and strive in areas of education,work ethic,sacrifice of early living comforts can advance to great heights whether in employment or individual business!
In developed countries those that whine and want wealth distribution,that focus on the seemingly excessive wealth of others,are just to lazy or spoiled to strive!
Capitalism and the entrepenuership associated,is the reason these Nations have grown to be economic power Nations affording opportunity for anyone accepting the challenge and willing to evolve out of their old cultural or lifestyle concepts!
Communist and socialistic nations do not succeed without the support and assistance of the Capitalistic Nations.
To expect people to accept the forceful taking of their assets to be given to those that are not willing to ''strive'',is an abhorrent idea to all that are victims,who at any economic level,will resist absolutely!Many will simply stop investing or producing to avoid excessive taxation,causing a shrinkage of jobs and opportunity!

When will those of ''free developed''Nations realize and accept that they do not have the right or,in fact,the need to take from others!!

Holding on to old historical injustices that happened to their forefathers or kin,is just an excuse to focus on the negative rather than take the opportunities ,for them as individuals,that exist now!

When the striving entrepenuers join the ranks of the disgruntled,all opportunity diminishes!

The ''trickle down effect'' is much maligned by the selfish ''do-gooders''that are really seek accolades from their convinced minority population by attempting and succeeding to convince that group,that the rich are the ''bad guys'' and that their being rich,somehow,hurts the less affluent,rather than having a sincere desire for a good bottomline result!

Fearmongering about the demise of a developed Nations status as a developed Nation,is just more of this so called ''liberal''(a misnomer for sure,leftist being the proper name)propaganda to setup their agenda.They show their ignorance of the fact that developed Nations means advances acheived in opportunity for the population to individually overcome economic hurdles that are close to impossible in systems of non-developed countries!

These fearmongering leftists are actually trying to erode the foundation of the developed country by attacking the wealthy,whether they realize it or not! :roll:
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Re: Is America becoming a 3rd World economy?

Postby rick » October 1, 2010, 9:32 am

3rd world, unlikely. But as has been echoed by others, globalisation has hit the less wealthy in the developed world more than the rich. In UK, since Thatcher, wealth has become more polarised; the jobs of those who produced have been lost to foreign countries; more recently 'competition' has started to erode even the office jobs. Government jobs are privatised (good thing you may think) but those companies then outsource the work abroard where possible, as indians will work for 25% of the price. That happened to me. Also, how many call centres are based abroard to save money?

The rich benefit through ownership of large companies, but these companies employ less and less people in their home countries. The only new jobs are in low paid service delivery; unfortunately the pay is not enough to even pay the rent. Hence the boom in benefit dependency. I see it in UK, sure the same affects USA. It is always POSSIBLE to succeed through hard work, brains and an element of luck, but it is becoming harder all the time.

Rather than pay someone to do nothing, it must be better for the country to provide work at a living wage, even if 'theoretically' it is inefficient.

When i was young, never had any trouble finding a job until Thatcher turned up. Now, 75% of my immediate family do not have properly paid employment - and not for want of trying.
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End of the United States.......

Postby firsttimebangkok » October 2, 2010, 8:05 pm

In February, the board of commissioners of Ohio's Ashtabula County faced a scene familiar to local governments across America: a budget shortfall. They began to cut spending and reduced the sheriff's budget by 20 per cent. A law enforcement agency staff that only a few years ago numbered 112, and had subsequently been pared down to 70, was cut again to 49 people and just one squad car for a county of 1,900 sq. km along the shore of Lake Erie. The sheriff's department adapted. "We have no patrol units. There is no one on the streets. We respond to only crimes in progress. We don't respond to property crimes," deputy sheriff Ron Fenton told Maclean's. The county once had a "very proactive" detective division in narcotics. Now, there is no detective division. "We are down to one evidence officer and he just runs the evidence room in case someone wants to claim property," said Fenton. "People are getting property stolen, their houses broken into, and there is no one investigating. We are basically just writing up a report for the insurance company."

If a county without police seems like a weird throwback to an earlier, frontier-like moment in American history, it is not the only one. "Back to the Stone Age" is the name of a seminar organized in March by civil engineers at Indiana's Purdue University for local county supervisors interested in saving money by breaking up paved roads and turning them back to gravel. While only some paved roads in the state have been broken up, "There are a substantial number of conversations going on," John Habermann, who manages a program at Purdue that helps local governments take care of infrastructure, told Maclean's. "We presented a lot of talking points so that the county supervisors can talk logically back to elected officials when the question is posed," he said. The state of Michigan had similar conversations. It has converted at least 50 miles of paved road to gravel in the last few years.

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Welcome to the ground level of America's economic crisis. The U.S. unemployment rate is 9.5 per cent. One in 10 homeowners are behind on their mortgage payments. Home sales are at record lows. While the economy has been growing for several quarters, the growth is anemic - only 1.6 per cent in the second quarter of this year - and producing few new jobs.

Even with interest rates at unprecedented lows, there is anxiety about the possibility of a double-dip recession. Sales of existing homes are at their lowest level in 15 years, and new home sales plummeted this summer to the lowest levels on record. Property and sales tax revenues have shrunk. And nowhere is this more apparent than at the local government level, where officials are being forced to roll back the everyday hallmarks of modern civilization.

Cincinnati, Ohio, is cutting back on trash collection and snow removal and flling fewer potholes.

The city of Dallas is not picking up litter in public parks. Flint, Mich., laid off 23 of 88 firefighters and closed two fire stations. In some places it's almost literally the dark ages: the city of Shelton in Washington state decided to follow the example of numerous other localities and last week turned off 114 of its 860 street lights. Others have axed bus service and cut back on library hours. Class sizes are being increased and teachers are being laid off. School districts around the country are cutting the school day or the school week or the school year - effectively furloughing students. The National Association of Counties estimates that local governments will eliminate roughly half a million employees in the next fiscal year, with public safety, public works, public health, social services, and parks and recreation hardest hit by the cutbacks. A July survey by the association of counties, the National League of Cities, and the U.S. Conference of Mayors of 270 local governments found that 63 per cent of localities are cutting back on public safety and 60 per cent are cutting public works.

In August, the U.S. Congress passed a US$26-billion stimulus extension bill, aimed in part at saving teacher jobs. But it's a finger in the dike. Jacqueline Byers, director of research for the counties association, said many local governments have yet to confront the full impact of the real estate crisis on government revenues because they do tax assessments only every third year. A fundamental transformation is under way. "When we come out of this recession we're going to see government functioning very differently," says Byers. "We are seeing more public-private partnership than we ever had for things like recreation and parks. We are seeing some of them privatize libraries. They lease the library to a private corporation that employs the workers who don't carry retirement or health benefits." Or they could wind up like Hood River County, Ore., which in August closed its three libraries altogether.

Some governments are looking for creative ways to replace plummeting property and sales tax revenues. Facing a US$1-billion budget shortfall, Montgomery County in Maryland appealed for corporate sponsors to step up and adopt porta-potties in its public parks. In the end, the privies were saved by a combination of park employees taking early retirement, a few private sponsorships, and a negotiated discount from the supplier, Don's Johns. Meanwhile, Montgomery County's school system, banking on its reputation for high standards and test scores, took the unusual step of selling its curriculum to a private textbook publisher, Pearson, for US$2.3 million and royalties of up to three per cent on sales. As part of the deal, county classrooms can be used as "showrooms" - which critics said effectively turns students and teachers into salesmen for a corporation. But the superintendent, Jerry Weast, told the Washington Post, "I tend to look at this from the perspective that we are broke."

These cuts in infrastructure and education are more than just a temporary belt-tightening in response to a recession. They threaten long-term damage to American's economic foundation - a foundation that has long been eroding. When the eight-lane Interstate 35 bridge collapsed in Minneapolis in 2007, killing 13 people and injuring 145, the American Society of Civil Engineers warned that the infrastructure deficit of aging postwar highways and bridges amounted to US$1.6 trillion. More than a quarter of America's bridges were rated structurally deficient or functionally obsolete. Steam pipes have exploded in New York City and the levees failed in New Orleans.

Despite its position as the world's unrivalled superpower, international comparisons show the U.S. slipping on a number of fronts. On education, the United States has been falling behind, in everything from science and engineering to basic literacy. The U.S. once had the world's highest proportion of young adults with post-secondary degrees; now it ranks 12th, according to the College Board, an association of education institutions. (Canada is now number one.) In 2001, the U.S. ranked fourth in the world in per capita broadband Internet use; it now ranks 15th out of 30 nations, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. "We have been involved for three decades now in paring back public commitments and public spending, and that started with the Reagan revolution. We are living with the outcomes and consequences," says Michael Bernstein, an economic historian at Tulane University in New Orleans.

Meanwhile, prolonged rates of high unemployment are taking a toll on families today, and will for years to come. Studies have shown that the longer a person is unemployed, the more difficult it is to find a job - partly because skills deteriorate, and partly because employers become suspicious of why someone hasn't worked for a year. "The United States is expanding its underclass of a whole group of individuals who will become less employable, less integrated, more subject to criminal and other deviant behaviour - and probably become part of the larger problem of structural poverty in America as well," says Sherle Shenninger, director of the economic growth program at the New America Foundation, a Washington think tank.

Arianna Huffington sees an even starker big picture emerging from the reams of bad economic news. "As we watch the middle class crumbling, for me this is a major indication that we are turning into a Third World country," said Huffington, founder of the Huffington Post, in an interview. "The distinguishing characteristic of the Third World country is you have the people at the top and the rest - you don't have a thriving middle class," says Huffington, whose new book is entitled Third World America: How Our Politicians Are Abandoning the Middle Class and Betraying the American Dream.

America is moving "from the Jetsons to the Flintstones," she argues. "The American dream was already based on the idea you could work hard and do well and your children will do better. Now we are confronted with downward mobility across the board. You have the phenomenon of unprecedented numbers of college grads who can't get jobs." The current public sector cutbacks in education and infrastructure will only make things worse, Huffington says. "You are both hurting people in the present, and basically undercutting your economic growth and prosperity in the future."

But the problem isn't simply a product of the current recession or the 2008 financial crisis. It is now well understood that for years Americans lived beyond their means on borrowed money.

The real estate bubble enabled many homeowners to borrow against in?ated house prices, giving families the feeling that their wealth was increasing. It was all a mirage. Low interest rates and easy credit allowed consumers to spend enthusiastically, masking the fact that the standard of living and incomes were stagnating, and public and private investment was lagging.

Over the past decade, private sector job growth was sluggish. Combined with recession job losses, there are now only as many private sector jobs as there were in early 1999, a decade ago, while the population continues to grow. And incomes stagnated for a full decade - the longest such period since the U.S. Census Bureau has been keeping track of household income.

"There is certainly a serious erosion of both the American social contract and the American dream for a great majority of Americans," says Shenninger. "There is a worrying trend that the private sector has not been able to generate jobs for now more than a decade."

While business productivity increased - workers created more output per hour of work - that did not follow the traditional model of translating into higher wages. "Eighty to 90 per cent of productivity gains went to corporate profitability - which means that in order to make up for the gap in demand, working families resorted to relying on rising housing prices and debt," says Shenninger. Workers lost the ability to bargain for wage increases as they competed with lower-wage workers in Europe, Asia and other emerging markets. Meanwhile, corporate earnings exploded.

Clyde Prestowitz, a former Reagan administration trade official and president of the Economic Strategy Institute, says the scope of the problem came into focus for him one day last year when he read, in the same newspaper, that China was launching a new 240-mile-an-hour high-speed train, and then an article about city leaders in Pittsburgh considering a tax on university tuitions in order to fund the municipal employees' retirement pension plan. "I thought, the Chinese are building world-record trains and we're taxing kids who go to school!" says Prestowitz. "We've been in decline for quite some time - we haven't recognized it and have been fooling ourselves. But we've gotten to the point it's hard to not see."

There are numerous theories about the path America took to get where it is. Prestowitz blames the American approach to trade and globalization. A former trade negotiator who worked on NAFTA and advised Ronald Reagan's commerce secretary, he argues that at the root of the problem is a long-term American naïveté about global trade, a case he makes in his book The Betrayal of American Prosperity.

American jobs are being lost not only to low-wage competition from emerging economies, but to strategic policies by foreign governments to dominate critical sectors of the economy, or to keep their currency values low to promote exports. "Other countries recognize the importance of economies of scale and promote the development of certain industries, whether solar panels, or semiconductors, and we don't," says Prestowitz.

High-tech plants and research labs of companies such as Intel, Applied Materials, General Electric and BP have been moving to China because the Chinese are offering subsidies in the form of free energy, free infrastructure, reduced taxes and discounted utilities. Prestowitz made the argument earlier this year to a meeting of White House economists who were debating the administration's funding for alternative energies such as battery technologies. "My position was, if you spend all this money and not do anything about currency manipulation by China, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, Malaysia, Thailand, if you don't do anything about the investment incentives being offered to companies like Applied Materials, if you don't deal with all those things and just give money to some battery company - forget it, that's money down the rathole."

Prestowitz accuses successive American administrations of sacrificing trade issues to geopolitics. "The highest priority for the U.S. government is national security. We need a base somewhere or a vote at the UN, and we make an economic concession," he says. Exhibit A: "The Obama administration has bent over backwards to avoid calling China a currency manipulator," he noted.Huffington blames politicians' domestic economic policies: first, Republicans for tax cuts and deregulation that favoured top earners and corporations, and now Democrats for failing to undo the damage. As a candidate, Barack Obama accused George W. Bush of ignoring the middle class, she notes. But now Huffington criticizes Obama for campaigning on prioritizing the middle class and then failing to do so in the White House. "What happened is he picked an economic team whose primary focus has been Wall Street and who dramatically underestimated the depth of the crisis," she says. "The emphasis has been on fixing Wall Street, which was bailed out without any strings attached, and which turned around and cut lending instead of lend more."

Shenninger points in part to foreign policy: waging expensive wars overseas rather than spending the money at home. "Our priorities are horribly distorted," he says. "We spent billions on new energy plants in Iraq and most of the money got siphoned off. We are spending billions of dollars trying to build schools in Afghanistan. But we are not willing to borrow at historically low rates to keep teachers at work or improve public infrastructure at home."

Whatever the causes, the way out is not clear. While some critics are calling for a major program of reinvestment in public infrastructure and reviving parts of the U.S. manufacturing base, the politics do not favour it. In a speech in Milwaukee on Monday, Obama asked Congress to pass a US$50-billion infrastructure spending program to refurbish roads, runways and railways. But concerns about government deficits among Republicans and some Democrats make it unlikely that any large spending package could pass Congress - especially after the gains the GOP is widely expected to make in the mid-term elections on Nov. 2.

Republicans are calling for aggressive spending cuts. When Democrats pushed through their spending bill for local governments, Republicans called it a "bailout" of pro?igate local governments that overindulged public sector unions with generous salaries and benefits. House Republican whip Eric Cantor called Obama's latest call for infrastructure spending "another play called from the same failed Keynesian playbook," adding, "We need to cut spending immediately and end the environment of uncertainty that continues to impede real private-sector job creation and growth." The GOP members on the House budget committee have identified US$1.3 trillion in potential cuts to federal spending. House minority leader John Boehner calls federal spending "a job killing agenda." " We have to remember that, even when spending is not at record-setting levels, each dollar the government collects is taken directly out of the private sector," Boehner said in a recent economic speech. He added: "I'm not afraid to tell you there's no money left. In fact, we're broke."

But where does that leave people like the good citizens of Ashtabula County, Ohio? How can they be safe from criminals without a fully staffed local police force, TV station WKYC asked a local judge in April. "Arm yourselves," came the reply from Ashtabula County Common Pleas Judge Alfred Mackey. "Be very careful, be vigilant, get in touch with your neighbors, because we're going to have to look after each other."

And so they did. In July, a group of farmers removed the safeties from their shotgun triggers and surrounded a trailer in which a suspected house robber was hiding while they waited for the county's last, lone squad car to arrive.

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Re: Is America becoming a 3rd World economy?

Postby BobHelm » October 3, 2010, 2:17 pm

PLEASE...
When posting words other than your own follow the very simple Forum rules...
1. Use the 'Quote' button supplied so all readers can readily identify it for what it is ..
2. Only quote enough of the original article to prove your point. While there is no firm rule about the 'volume' that is quoted common sense says that the size of the quotation should be as short as possible to prove the point. 'Rubbish' that exists on most web pages ("Follow xxx on Twitter/Facebook" etc.)should be removed from the quote - if the poster can't be bothered to tidy up the piece then readers should not have to make the effort to read it & the complete piece will be deleted by the Mods without any further comment...
3. Clearly show the web address of where the original quote came from - the reader has the right to investigate the 'validity' of the source material.
4. The poster should add some of his own words as to how this adds to the thread - what point he believes the quote proves.
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