Minimum Wage

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wiking
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Minimum Wage

Post by wiking » January 2, 2013, 7:10 pm

mechanisation has been on the way last many years from buffalo to tractor and now many are using rice plant and harvest machine, why not because og the salary off 300 baht many place they pay more, no because there are no labour

looking these sugar harvest machine they are using today

and labour in the rubber plantage get a lot more than 300 baht

all the bars are not getting girls from rice farms

if you are finish rajabhat the start salary is 15.000

I am sure the higher salary will move thailand in a better way

now only need that the goverment raise the retirement salary for everbody and not only the people who work for the goverment - it is a shame, to give old people 600 baht and 20time more to boverment retired people - these old ricefarmer has work hard to feed old these goverment people



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harmonyudon
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Minimum Wage

Post by harmonyudon » January 2, 2013, 8:08 pm

BobHelm wrote:That is still nearly a third less than the new rules in Thailand, that are applicable to all... :D
About 7000 baht minimum wage in DKI JKT, but all companies here must pay 13th month, even when you are a restaurant or a shop, so total about 13xmonth salary per year. Don't know about Thailand.

I paid before in Udon the staff per day, free food and if they want to stay at the premises free also.
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parrot
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Minimum Wage

Post by parrot » January 2, 2013, 8:13 pm

"the new rules in Thailand, that are applicable to all..."

I wonder if that will change the dynamics of Isaan people seeking work in Bangkok. Our maid/gardener worked in Bangkok for a few years.....hardly saved a satang after paying for food, transportation, lodging, etc....not to mention several trips home for the holidays.

Judging by the number of Help Wanted signs posted everywhere in Udon, I wonder if the locals will have second thoughts about returning to the big city.

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rick
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Minimum Wage

Post by rick » January 2, 2013, 8:17 pm

I agree the farmers in isaan, and those running local businesses in the villages will suffer. We also one couldn't get any local labour for the rice harvest, had to go to Kumphawampi to hire them and still had to pay 300 baht. To be honest, for a small old-fashioned rice farmer like my father-in-law, who no longer owns a buffalo, ploughing, planting, harvesting, threshing and milling are all extra expenses which probably mean that the rice we eat costs as much as from Tesco's (with his labour for free). Pigs, ducks and chickens also barely provide a return due to feed prices. I see food prices rising and farmers still getting little return - certainly not making 300 baht a day.

Secondly, in the village most businesses do not make enough to pay even 200 baht a day. if enforced, only family labour in future (as is mainly the case anyway). And they will have to charge more too. ..... The government needs to boost income at the VILLAGE level to improve the lot of those in rural areas.

Of course, could just be a devious plan to force all the small farmers into bankruptcy so they have to sell their land.

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Minimum Wage

Post by pienmash » January 2, 2013, 11:25 pm

trubrit wrote:It may be of interest to note that during the recent rice harvesting the local farmers were forced to pay 300bht per day to get any labour.Talking to one he said he will invest in more mechanisation next year, or plant crops that require less manual handling . So it could mean the end of rice growing in this region.What then? I foresee a dramatic change in the employment habits of a lifetime in Issan.
My exact point has been summed up in Tbs post ,,,,,this law will add burdens and surely see the demise of some grass roots busineses ie farmers etc ,,, inturn manufacturing ,,,,,,,,, logistics , packing etc etc ,, this is not just a flash in the pan its gonna effect all consumers nationwide ,,, and as ever like it or not the buck will stop with ,,,,,,, the customer .

Savvy business owners will plan positvely , some will react negatively .....some will do nothing ,, big changes are coming for sure , ,,,

mash

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Khun Paul
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Minimum Wage

Post by Khun Paul » January 3, 2013, 5:42 am

One comment about the rise in minimum wage was made to me by a friend that runs a factory, is what used to be accpetable and free is no longer acceptable nor free. When they come to work they work, i no longer pay for dinner or lunch ,. only provide water to drink. Food supplies are no longer available inside the factory, I pay for eight hours a day not from when they come to when they go. I have tightened up my costs and they now have the minimum wage and where some didn't pay tax they do now, so all in all no change but they ( the workers ) are now underrtanding that if they want something they pay for it, before many things were provided now no longer.
So although for a many the costs are high if one looks at what you provide free to workers and stop that, it all evens out.
Another friend who used to provide housing free now charges them rent, not a lot but is does ofset the wage hike, they gain but lose at the same time. .

jai yen yen
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Post by jai yen yen » January 3, 2013, 7:56 am

You have to realize that the Thai wealthy can not keep taking advantage of the poor forever. It is very hard to live on 200 or 300 baht a day. The rich in Thailand are very rich and they cry when they have to pay an extra 3 dollars a day for labour as it might reduce some of their profit. The government and the wealthy are so greedy they even bring in cheaper workers from Laos and Burma to boost their profits even more. It is nice for expats and tourists to benefit from the cheap labour but I would rather see the poor have a better standard of living and pay more for things myself. If people were paid a decent wage as well as having safe working conditions and benefits Thailand would start to develop in the right way with the standard of living improving for the people. This would also help with crime and drug issues. Too many can't see a future for themselves. For all you expats that don't agree with me go try to raise a family , pay for a home, pay for transportation, decent education for your children, decent health care and maybe save a little for a holiday once in awhile or retirement on 300 baht a day.

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merchant seaman
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Minimum Wage

Post by merchant seaman » January 3, 2013, 8:08 am

So true, 2 vodka and cokes in a farang bar and your daily wage is gone

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jackspratt
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Minimum Wage

Post by jackspratt » January 3, 2013, 8:20 am

Has there ever been a boss who said he can afford a pay rise for his workers?

Has there ever been a country which has improved economically while suppressing the wages of its poorest workers?

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randerson79
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Post by randerson79 » January 3, 2013, 8:38 am

You can raise the minimum wage to 1000 baht an hour. All the prices will adjust and the poor will still be poor.

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harmonyudon
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Post by harmonyudon » January 3, 2013, 9:15 am

jai yen yen wrote:You have to realize that the Thai wealthy can not keep taking advantage of the poor forever. It is very hard to live on 200 or 300 baht a day. The rich in Thailand are very rich and they cry when they have to pay an extra 3 dollars a day for labour as it might reduce some of their profit. The government and the wealthy are so greedy they even bring in cheaper workers from Laos and Burma to boost their profits even more. It is nice for expats and tourists to benefit from the cheap labour but I would rather see the poor have a better standard of living and pay more for things myself. If people were paid a decent wage as well as having safe working conditions and benefits Thailand would start to develop in the right way with the standard of living improving for the people. This would also help with crime and drug issues. Too many can't see a future for themselves. For all you expats that don't agree with me go try to raise a family , pay for a home, pay for transportation, decent education for your children, decent health care and maybe save a little for a holiday once in awhile or retirement on 300 baht a day.
=D>

Well said@jai yen yen. Foreign investors can be concerned, right @Bob. They want to utilize cheap labor and perhaps look another country with cheaper labor costs.
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JimboPSM
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Minimum Wage

Post by JimboPSM » January 3, 2013, 9:43 am

jackspratt wrote:... Has there ever been a country which has improved economically while suppressing the wages of its poorest workers?
While I can't think of any, history appears to show that suppressing the wages of the poorest is is not conducive to increasing the life expectancy of the ruling classes (e.g. France and Russia) :-k
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wiking
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Minimum Wage

Post by wiking » January 3, 2013, 12:17 pm

Foreign investors is not looking only for the wage, they make a total cost benefit

many workers move from one to another because there boss is not good - ask all the thais low class worker what they are thinking about there chinese boss

but one thing is for sure, there will be a lot morey flow

and i will say it on this way -. if a company can not afford to pay 300 baht for one day work, maybe there is womething wrong with this bussiniss or manegent

and if the country can not afford to pay retirement people more than 600 baht a month, maybe they should change their policy - raise the vat from 7 to 8 or 9 or 10% and give them a minium of 3000-5000 a month after 65 years, this would help, because than all the orher poor workers dont has to sent money home

but what has change negativ since 1.4.12 where the minium salary was raise from 160 to 240

wiking
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Post by wiking » January 3, 2013, 12:56 pm

look here, few people using same amount af the rest

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/nationa ... 97147.html

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Khun Paul
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Post by Khun Paul » January 3, 2013, 10:16 pm

It is not necessarily the wage increase that worries the employers it is the productivity that sucks as well, if you get paid more you have to work harder, unfortunately that is not a thi8ng that Thais do well . Work harder I mean they work at their speed . In main factories it can be achieved but in smaller businesses it is considerably harder and the reasons for not working hard or not working is never ending, it is also the Thai mentality, considering that the Vietnamese work twice as hard as the average Thai then complete attitude change is required.

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AussieBoy
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Post by AussieBoy » January 3, 2013, 10:32 pm

Been working in China for 6 months the minimum wage there is B1,000 a day plus insurance, plus supply accommodation and food average out B1200 a day per worker, working in a factory, we are building accommodation units/ motel 4 star 30mt2 per room up to 3 story high for the Oz market, Told the boss would be cheaper to build in Thailand, material labour, there is 500 approx man hours to build each unit, a thai worker would cost us B500 a day with all the extras, so 500hrs = 62 man daysx B700 = B43,000 plus office staff average out at B50,000 per unit x 300 units per year=B15,000,000 per year saving, the material was just a bit cheaper in thai, and shipping was cheaper to OZ, But for some reason he got blinded that China's cheap, but its hard to get labour there even at the top end we pay, Would have been better to set up factory in Thailand, plenty of english speaking, and lots of expats, he would have found plenty of farang at a quarter of the price he pays me to run the factory in Thailand,
We are 150k west of Hong Kong, 50k north of Dongguang, surprised when first got there very little English, and every where I go they all stare at the farang, rarely see one, in six months I have seen 3 farang in the city, Guangzhou / Canton about 200 k west from HK is a bit more friendly, not as much staring, but I went out back about another 100k from GZ nothing but people staring at the foreigner, the office staff who speak english, just dont know any thing about the west, not one movie they have seen from the west, dont know any movie stars, we have 50 workers, so I started to name then after movie stars they look like, not one to date they new, except Tom cruise, We have a hermon Monster, Homer Simpson, the list goes on, it's my first impression I get when I meet a new worker, tell me if I'm wrong, photo attached of one of the workers

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KHONDAHM
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Minimum Wage

Post by KHONDAHM » January 4, 2013, 1:26 am

randerson79 wrote:You can raise the minimum wage to 1000 baht an hour. All the prices will adjust and the poor will still be poor.
Succintly and well stated.

There is no producer that won't be affected either directly or indirectly due to overhead price increases. Including the millions of family-operated businesses like road-side stands. Their overhead and direct materials will go up. Same for the pig farmers.

My neighbor just transformed 8 rai of his rice field into huge commercial fish nurseries. He plans to supply the new markets opening up ahead of ASEAN. It should be producing within two years' time. He made the switch in part because he can harvest himself as it is much more productive and profitable without the need for hired labor.

I am happy about it because it ensures no houses will go up to block our view on that side and immediately tripled the surrounding land prices again to 2M+ (was 250k just 3 years ago). I'm buying a couple of uber mosquito killing traps for dealing with the expected additional mosquitos, though.

Ultimately, the people who are screwed the most by the wage hike are the unemployed and underemployed because their overhead goes up dramatically. For such families, it means more debt and more forced land sales. It means more crime. It means more red light labor. It means more immigrants. It means more nationalism. It means less land and labor available for agricultural production. It means more switching to non-traditional crops. It means more global food supply shortages. It means more starvation somewhere and higher prices in developed countries. It means more compounded and imported inflation everywhere.

It means, to repeat the quote, the poor will still be poor AND own less land. Land of course being the ultimate source of ALL wealth. So, one can prove and correctly conclude that wage increases "to benefit the poor" actually transfers more wealth to the rich.

We are seeing this play out all over Thailand. The new rich are those who are cashing in their land chips and buying luxuries. It will eventually peak and then collapse just as it has in all developed countries. The only questions are how long will it be until it does and how fast/hard will it crash?

Wages going up necessarily means a good time to buy more land from the poor will soon follow...
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randerson79
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Post by randerson79 » January 4, 2013, 7:45 am

Let this day be marked in stone! Khondahn and I agree on something. :shock:
Maybe you are coming back to the middle? ;)

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KHONDAHM
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Post by KHONDAHM » January 4, 2013, 10:27 am

randerson79 wrote:Let this day be marked in stone! Khondahn and I agree on something. :shock:
Maybe you are coming back to the middle? ;)
Ha! ;)
I'm not an unreasonable guy. When the facts are what they are, then that's the way it is! :)
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Minimum Wage

Post by wiking » January 4, 2013, 10:59 am

some writing the thai workers are not effective - thats not right - the managemet is not effeektive

take one hardworker group - these who work in the big fish company - they are effective and working very hard and making same as in the western counties - but get less per day as a worker there get per hour

look all the car company - if you still thinking that toyota thailand is not same effectiv as other places, think twice

I think someone only know what some off these early rice-bam bam girl them in the bar

but this raise will make thais more effective

and if some one has to close down now, than not because the workers has to get 300 baht a day - only because off bad manegement.

and look at some off the textile facttory - maybee if they would invest in a better place, with cooler air, than they could produce more - no these dont care benefit to the workers at all - if you would give these workplace to a worker in the western world, they would go home

it is the same with all farang restaurant, the farng boss think he is very clever and want to have bigger profit and then raise the price off his already overpriced product and later can not understand why there are comming less customer - they study a lot off bargirl maybe they should study marketing on how it works

thailand only need to stop to feed the old elite with all there corrupt money and let the new upcommers run it -
think 2/3 off thailands economy is black - this could give thailand a bust, if they could make them white

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