Eric Holder has recently assured the Russians that if Snowden is returned to the U.S. he will not br tortured or executed. WTF. Did anyone think that he would be?

merchant seaman wrote:Eric Holder has recently assured the Russians that if Snowden is returned to the U.S. he will not br tortured or executed. WTF. Did anyone think that he would be?

executed - no.

tortured - possibly. torture defined : cause somebody anguish: to cause somebody mental or physical anguish

Remember, one man's 'torture' is another man's 'enhanced interrogation technique'.

Somehow, I think the definition varies wildly depending on if you're giving or receiving.......

I saw this earlier and thought it was just a joke considering the way they treated Manning. I am personally familiar with people who have been charged with far worse in the US and treated far more humanely. I can only guess the meaning of torture has changed considerably since Bush jr was in office. If for a moment that anyone thinks that solitary confinement is not torture I would suggest you read what those captured in Vietnam think about it.

LoveDaBlues wrote:

merchant seaman wrote:Eric Holder has recently assured the Russians that if Snowden is returned to the U.S. he will not br tortured or executed. WTF. Did anyone think that he would be?

executed - no.

tortured - possibly. torture defined : cause somebody anguish: to cause somebody mental or physical anguish

Remember, one man's 'torture' is another man's 'enhanced interrogation technique'.

Somehow, I think the definition varies wildly depending on if you're giving or receiving.......

Off hand I would say he is already there, mentally. I wouldn't want to be in his position. Should stood his ground in the first place, it's not going to fade away in the Sunset.

First off consider the source of the statement. It's what he (Snowden) put on his application for amnesty. I doubt that he believes the US Government will execute him (that would make him a martyr, and the Government certainly doesn't need that right now) but it looks good on his application.

Just my guess, if they get him he'll get 10 years max for releasing classified information. More if they can prove he aided the enemy (whoever that is).

Jello wrote: It's what he (Snowden) put on his application for amnesty.

Source?

Reuters:
"Mr. Snowden has filed papers seeking temporary asylum in Russia on the grounds that if he were returned to the United States, he would be tortured and would face the death penalty. "
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSB ... 6?irpc=932

The Govt just wants to make an example out of him to those who might not want to fall meekly into the developing fascist state

Just goes to show young Mr Snowden is not on the same planet, suffers delusions of grandeur, and actually thinks that after the initial flurry of press and worldwide support for his stance, as it is fading he requires another sensational titbit to raise his standing again. personally put him in solitary and throw away the key, give him a TV with one channel,preferably Fox news and let him get on with being completely barmy.

As they say give him three squares aday and exercise for one hour, should ensure he lives a full uneventful life with not a computor in sight for the next 40 odd years or just shoot him ( probably cheaper and less hassle in the long run.)

So let me ask you just what is the US definition of torture? Are long periods of solitary confinement torture as was done with Pvt Manning? Is indefinite detention as what has happened in Guantanamo torture? Is force feeding torture? The list goes on and on because there really is no clear definition of what constitutes torture. The UN Convention on Torture defines it one way the US another. So when Eric Holder says Snowden won't be tortured just what does he mean?
I've been inside more county jails, and both state and federal prisons that I care to remember over the course of 20 years. I've met with people who have never been convicted of anything but kept confined in solitary for months/years for numerous obscure reasons while awaiting trial. I've also met with those who are serving a sentence and being held in solitary confinement. Even those living on the numerous death rows in the US are not kept in isolation awiting their sentence. Locked down alone for 23 hours a day in a cell without any other human contact and then released for an hour alone into an enclosed courtyard impressed me as torture. It was easy to see just how dramtically devasting these types of conditions had on the human psyche. It always reminded me of the Steve McQueen movie Papillon and convinced me it has no place in the US.

Khun Paul wrote:Just goes to show young Mr Snowden is not on the same planet, suffers delusions of grandeur, and actually thinks that after the initial flurry of press and worldwide support for his stance, as it is fading he requires another sensational titbit to raise his standing again. )

What are you prattling on about?

Snowden didn't raise "another sensationalist titbit". It was the US Attorney General who released his own letter.

How do you arrive at the conclusion he has "delusions of grandeur"? If anything, I would say he was just the opposite.

Support for Mr. Snowden is hardly fading. The US Congress has now gotten into the fray and have expressed their disatisfaction over being mislead by the Obama Administration regarding the NSA surveillance program. A recent vote in the House of Representatives to stop the NSA program failed to pass by only 12 votes and only after Obama himself made an emergency plea to reject the legislation. The author of the bill - Rep Amash (MI) vows to fight on. A number of Europen countries are also more than upset about what the US has been up to.
I would say the US should tread lightly when it comes to Mr Snowden considering they really don't know just how much information he has placed in safe keeping with others.

jackspratt wrote:

Jello wrote: It's what he (Snowden) put on his application for amnesty.

Source?

So you meant "asylum" rather than "amnesty"?

They are rather different things.

KP

As I posted earlier Congress is more than interested in the NSA surveillance program and the FISA court which approved it. Support is building in Congress as they have been mislead by the Obama Administration over just what the NSA is authorized to do. Snowden accomplished just what he set out to do and that was to expose the program for its unconstitutionality and open it up to public debate. In my opinion there is no place in the US judicial system for a secret court issuing secret orders which no one can challenge.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pos ... c/?hpid=z3

A Letter from Edward Snowden's father Lon to President Obama..

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rlk43l

It ends with

In light of the circumstances amplified above, we urge you to order the Attorney General to move to dismiss the outstanding criminal complaint against Edward, and to support legislation to remedy the NSA surveillance abuses he revealed. Such presidential directives would mark your finest constitutional and moral hour.

Never happen. Obama doesn't have the courage to do what is right, only what is politically popular to the neocons and those who see a terrorist under every rock.

Here's an interesting report from todays Washington Post. It's informative reading for anyone who questioned Mr Snowden's actions of releasing information about the NSA surveillance programs to the press instead of going to congress.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... ml?hpid=z3

fdimike wrote:Never happen. Obama doesn't have the courage to do what is right, only what is politically popular to the neocons and those who see a terrorist under every rock.

Just a happy read, to see his father (X coast guard, I think) supports his son. I would expect that our constitutional president will never see the letter, well except if he caught it on the internet, well that's supposing he can get around the blocks, which I doubt. Remind me the next time a constitutional lawyer runs for president.

fdimike wrote:Here's an interesting report from todays Washington Post. It's informative reading for anyone who questioned Mr Snowden's actions of releasing information about the NSA surveillance programs to the press instead of going to congress.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... ml?hpid=z3

Ya, had saw that, but I have a problem with his NON Heroism, but it does give him the opportunity to ask the right questions, and get people to lie under oath.

Hope you saw this open letter to Mr Snowden. Dam hard to now find!

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 52284.html

but it still works

Yes saw the letter on AJ on line and also via Tom Dispatch - http://www.tomdispatch.com/

If you look into the author's background you'll learn she went back to school to obtain her Masters Degree in International Journalism. She writes extremely well.

I think he did what he could to alert the American people without putting himself in jeopardy with Obama and administration with the word secret as its middle name.