Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

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How do you view Snowden's actions in (further) exposing the spooks?

Hero - hopefully will find a happy home in a place with no extradition treaty with the US or ally.
58
57%
Traitor - should be strung up from the nearest tree.
28
28%
Other - can't make up my mind yet.
15
15%
 
Total votes: 101

bumper
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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by bumper » October 19, 2014, 1:08 pm

I think we forget the right to privacy, applies to criminal prosecution. You get the net in any form private companies gather information about you. :D

Does that surprise anyone

I doubt it :-"

The harm is not gathering the information, it's what is done with it. Therefor I lend credence to Paul. What American has been prosecuted by an illegal wiretap that we know of. Me I don't know of any, wiretaps on private citizens are hardly new. been used for years now. All you need was to convince a Judge you needed one and had probable cause to believe that it would produce evidence of criminal behavior. Never has been that hard really.

We are not talking oranges and oranges here. Can anyone show me, how the intelligence gathering without a warrant is harming anyone?

Maybe Snowden. But, there sure is probable cause there for a warrant for sure.

Here is something to think about, we are not immune to terrorist activity here. look to the South, that can easily be expanded.

The searches being done are used for at the very minimum of finding terrorist cells. Europe the UK and the Sates have them. Australia recently go real busy with the ones they knew about. How do you think they found them. They sure don't have register do they?

So Snowden may be a hero in your mind, he is not in mine.

I doubt that I could change your mind and I know for sure you won't change mine :lol: :lol: :lol:


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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by JoeThrows » October 19, 2014, 1:55 pm

I suppose if you come from a country that doesn't guarantee your right to privacy, it means nothing to you. As an American citizen with nothing to hide but a desire to be free from invasion of privacy I will not be handing over that right without a fight. The u.s. Govt has been chipping away at the fourth amendment for years now, once it's gone it won't be back.

Any u.s. Citizen who says "I've got nothing to hide, look all you want" is sacrificing liberty for the perception of state security and will ultimately have neither.

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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by FrazeeDK » October 19, 2014, 8:52 pm

I would agree with that.. When you enter the States the TSA and CBP folks can, on a whim with no warrant confiscate any electronic device you have in your possession for further "exploitation".. They can even demand the password if you've got it encrypted..
Dave

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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by LilRed » October 20, 2014, 8:30 am

Snowden wuz right!

Careful, lads... Those federales are shameless...

Freakin passed Ocare and started eBola, jes so they could implant RFIDs in all a us...

http://nationalreport.net/cdc-whistlebl ... fid-chips/

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by bumper » October 20, 2014, 8:45 am

JoeThrows wrote:I suppose if you come from a country that doesn't guarantee your right to privacy, it means nothing to you. As an American citizen with nothing to hide but a desire to be free from invasion of privacy I will not be handing over that right without a fight. The u.s. Govt has been chipping away at the fourth amendment for years now, once it's gone it won't be back.

Any u.s. Citizen who says "I've got nothing to hide, look all you want" is sacrificing liberty for the perception of state security and will ultimately have neither.
I'm' from America just a different view the you. Search and seizure came from the Brits in Colonial time, there have b been a few hings change since then. I

I'm going to look up that today and reread it

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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by Khun Paul » October 20, 2014, 9:19 am

Any invasion of privacy is untenable BUT and it is a big BUT, your privacy comes at a cost, the cost could be lack of some privacy to ensure your peace and general well being as well as privacy.
For me I have always known my country spies on me as do other countries from the minute you land to when you go eg:- a few years ago i went to the States, after landing I met my friend the Dep Police Chief then of Las Vegas, he then showed me that all passengers landing were checked against all databases available to them in Nevada and then checked against data bases available to them in the UK for me and other countries fro other nationalities, so in fact within 24-48 hours the local police are fully aware of who you are and what you have done in your own countries. Not that they would act unless a marker came up against your name, but that simple fact was interesting .I was not worried but it shows just how intrusive landing in another country can be, he even showed me my tax number and NHS number from the UK, which means they are all linked in the UK. Privacy comes at a cost so before we all shout about lack of it, it is that lack of privacy that allows you to shout about it. Think outside the box, nothing is as clear and simple as we would like ti to be. IS IT ?

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by JoeThrows » October 20, 2014, 10:37 am

Bill of rights doesn't provide us with an expectation of privacy in public. Fourth amendment is quite clear, right to be secure in their persons houses papers and effects. Facial recognition technology used in a public airport doesn't violate the fourth amendment, trying to access my cellphone without a warrant clearly is a violation and unacceptable. No ifs ands or buts about it

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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by GT93 » October 20, 2014, 12:41 pm

The state and corporates are going to get better and better at collecting data on people and they will act on it. We're moving into a new world. Some countries are further down that path. If we're not careful we can unknowingly slip into an Orwellian future. I reckon we are on a slope. I haven't worked out how steep it is yet.
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by JoeThrows » October 20, 2014, 2:12 pm

This thread reminds me that I haven't watched Brazil for a few years.

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by bumper » October 21, 2014, 1:00 pm

JoeThrows wrote:Bill of rights doesn't provide us with an expectation of privacy in public. Fourth amendment is quite clear, right to be secure in their persons houses papers and effects. Facial recognition technology used in a public airport doesn't violate the fourth amendment, trying to access my cellphone without a warrant clearly is a violation and unacceptable. No ifs ands or buts about it
You know it''s not as simple as that.

Read this carefully
Under the Fourth Amendment, search and seizure (including arrest) should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer who has sworn by it. Fourth Amendment case law deals with three central questions: what government activities constitute "search" and "seizure"; what constitutes probable cause for these actions; and how violations of Fourth Amendment rights should be addressed. Early court decisions limited the amendment's scope to a law enforcement officer's physical intrusion onto private property, but with Katz v. United States (1967), the Supreme Court held that its protections, such as the warrant requirement, extend to the privacy of individuals as well as physical locations. Law enforcement officers need a warrant for most search and seizure activities, but the Court has defined a series of exceptions for consent searches, motor vehicle searches, evidence in plain view, exigent circumstances, border searches, and other situations.
Now lets talk bailout the cell phone once it the electronic message leaves your person is it protected? It' now left your immediate your immediate presence mixed in with millions more. Has anything been seized that is a part of the your protected from not the search amendment/ If an item is taken in an unlawfully search it can not be used against you
in a legal matter.

A good example your trash is your trash until you stick by the side of the road for pickup at that point it's fair game. My guess is we will have with time more defined direction in these matters in the future. I don't think the case law is there yet.

One thing for sure it will make a great debate when it does happen.
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by JoeThrows » October 21, 2014, 3:42 pm

I'm more concerned with accessing data on phones and laptops without a warrant, no knock raids, police/immigration roadblocks that are really just a way to look for an offense inside the car and passengers, etc

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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by bumper » October 21, 2014, 5:52 pm

Actually I don't think that has been decided yet.

Another question:

They hack your computer, they don't seize information, If you take the amendment on it's face they have not violated your rights. I think not. They seem to go together they way it's written. Case law will determine all that if has not been done already. We know that on a hard line phone a warrant is required.

When that was written it was a very different world. I doubt even Franklyn the only to experience electricity, could envision me sitting at a desk typing in a few words and people all over the world being able to read it.

It's called splitting hairs. But, that is what case law and Supreme Courts re all about.

NSA hears you mention a name in a phone call is he/she seizing it or do you still have it? ;)


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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by parrot » November 20, 2014, 12:50 am

Massive snowstorm in Buffalo, NY.....meanwhile, the senate votes on restricting NSA's data collection
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/19/us/ns ... cords.html

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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by bumper » November 20, 2014, 12:35 pm

Thanks Good news some one is thinking past emotion.
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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by jackspratt » February 20, 2015, 11:18 am

The revelations just keep on coming. :D

Keep up the good work, Ed. =D>
Explosive documents from whistleblower Edward Snowden allege American and British spies stole SIM card encryption keys from one of the world's largest manufacturers, giving spy agencies the power to monitor mobile communications without approval.

The documents, published by The Intercept, reveal how America's National Security Agency (NSA) and Britain's Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) targeted Netherlands-based Gemalto, which produces more than 2 billion SIM cards a year for hundreds of wireless network providers worldwide.

Having the encryption keys means agencies can monitor communications without leaving a trace and without needing a warrant or wiretap, according to The Intercept..........

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-20/s ... en/6161364

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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by Sport » February 20, 2015, 11:36 am

This mongrel still alive.

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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by GT93 » February 20, 2015, 11:47 am

Vlad's probably looking after him pretty well sport. If he wants threesomes with young Russian blondes, Vlad might be making sure he's getting some action. Ed's probably already had the occasional sojourn in Pattaya or Havana as well.

If the NSA and GCHQ have done that jack, the Chinese may well have also. So it wasn't just the yanks listening in on Merkel.
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Edward Snowden - Hero or Traitor? (POLL RE-OPENED)

Post by Aardvark » February 20, 2015, 12:10 pm

No wonder they want us to Register our Sims in Thailand ....

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edward snowden wants to return to usa

Post by wayneor0 » March 4, 2015, 8:02 am

if he gets a fair trial :D ok no sweat yep come on home traitor usa will give u a fair go [-o<

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