Now What? (American Politics)

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Khun Paul
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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by Khun Paul » February 3, 2012, 7:48 am

As far as ai amconcerned who gets into the White House is not my concern, BUT what I picked up following the news on the television, was that due to the massive amount of MONEY that was paid by one canditidate he was chosen ahead of another.
So the story is true, Money talks and even if you are a complete no-hoper if you spend everyone loves you.
That is the shame that is American politics and they then get what they deserve rather like Thailand useless politicians with self as the first priority.



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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by Tafia » February 3, 2012, 6:27 pm

Khun Paul wrote:As far as ai amconcerned who gets into the White House is not my concern, BUT what I picked up following the news on the television, was that due to the massive amount of MONEY that was paid by one canditidate he was chosen ahead of another.
So the story is true, Money talks and even if you are a complete no-hoper if you spend everyone loves you.
That is the shame that is American politics and they then get what they deserve rather like Thailand useless politicians with self as the first priority.
That just about covers every country then!!

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UdonExpat
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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by UdonExpat » February 3, 2012, 8:20 pm

American debt is huge and rapidly growing. Many of us from the US are concerned about it. Current debt is over $15 trillion and closing in the on current legal limit of $16.4 trillion. While China is a large holder of this debt at about $1.132 trillion (7.5%) it is not even close to the largest debt holders: US government agencies, including the Medicare and Social Security Trust Funds. These government agencies own about $6.328 trillion of the debt. So, more than 42% of the debt is internal to the US government itself. The political implications of this debt shed some light upon the efforts to reduce medicare and social security benefits. Foreign countries own a relatively small amount of US debt (around 10%). Most of the other owners are other American institutions and individuals.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/biggest-h ... -debt.html

Seems there are basically 2 ways of reducing debt: more income and/or less spending. Less spending has never had long term acceptability in the US (or any country for that matter) regardless of the political parties in charge of the executive, legislative or judicial branches. There is often a lot of talk about reducing spending, but it just doesn't happen. So, practically speaking that means more income (taxes). The only hope for more income is the Democrats. The Republicans won't create more income and have consistently created more spending, often more than the Democrats. The Democrats will increase spending also, but maybe they'll have the ability to increase the taxes enough to start reducing the debt. Carter did it, but then Bush came in with his tax cuts and wars and destroyed the surpluses.

Bob brought up a whole litany of US social, political, and economic problems. I'll be highly surprised if any of the potential presidential candidates get down to issues, because issues don't win political competitions and are likely to lose them. Self aggrandizement, opponent smearing, and sound bite platitudes will define the race.

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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by rick » February 4, 2012, 12:51 pm

It is interesting to contrast Politics between Europe and the United States. Choosing candidates in Europe is usually a low key affair and done in a matter of a few weeks (although personality is probably more important at this stage than policies, although mud slinging is rarely seen). In the United States it is a protracted affair lasting a year, involving a long drawn out process of character assassination, is all about perceived 'record' , huge amounts of money and wasted time. If a candidate put all his campaign funds into reducing the national debt, probably better spent. And due to the protracted scrutiny of 'record', both political and personal, candidates have usually avoided rocking the boat in any way in the last few years with voters and with those who donate campaign funds.

Come the presidential election campaign (another drawn out affair, compared to Europe's typical 4 weeks, which is for the whole political government, not one person) candidates have already compromised on everything to get this far, so although the PUBLIC message may promise some reform, real policy has already been decided - usually no real change or tax cuts for the biggest supporters.

You end up with a president who has privately promised much, but who faces a congress who may be hostile because they were voted in at a different time (either before or after the presidential election). No wonder 'change' is so hard.

The best part of the American presidential system is the limit to 2 terms and 8 years. That should be adopted in Europe too (who wants another Berlusconi?). Governments and prime ministers in Europe do at least have more room for manoeuvre once in power (although these days, the international economic system ensures that their is little room actually for most countries, because cutting spending cuts growth, while increasing spending increases debt).

Anyway, as many people say, need some break from more of the same.

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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by jackspratt » February 4, 2012, 12:59 pm

rick, as far as I am aware, term limits generally only apply to directly elected Presidents/Chancellors - in contrast to Prime Ministers/Premiers, who are elected by their party.

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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by KHONDAHM » February 5, 2012, 7:32 pm

UdonExpat wrote:The Republicans won't create more income and have consistently created more spending, often more than the Democrats. The Democrats will increase spending also, but maybe they'll have the ability to increase the taxes enough to start reducing the debt. Carter did it, but then Bush came in with his tax cuts and wars and destroyed the surpluses.
Just a point of clarification:

Image

http://tomorrowstarted.com/blog/wp-cont ... S-debt.png

...and Clinton was the first of any modern President to have surpluses. Record surpluses. Had W. Bush continued with Clinton's plan, the ENTIRE debt would have been eliminated by 2014...

http://ronmull.tripod.com/debt.html
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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by Ricohoc » February 5, 2012, 8:52 pm

Now that we've seen the percentages. Let's look at the actual dollars.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Image

In dollar terms, the current administration has increased the debt by over $6 trillion in just three years -- compared to the total debt of $9 trillion of all 43 presidents prior. The debt now stands at $15 trillion.

The debt will continue to rise because the 2009 Stimulus was built into the baseline spending. That extra $1 trillion and the interest that goes with all the borrowing will continue to be added and be compounded annually.

The CBO (Congressional Budget Office) has released a projection this past week that states that the debt will be over $22 trillion in 10 years even if no additional spending is added. The debt is now over 100% of the US GDP.

Additionally, there has been no budget passed by the US Senate in over 1,000 days by the controlling party.

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Post by KHONDAHM » February 5, 2012, 9:12 pm

Oh, good grief. Must we go through this AGAIN, Ricohoc? I am pretty sure most readers here are intelligent enough to know already that the current administration's spending levels are a result of the prior administration's policies and wars. Bush started 2 unfunded wars, cut government income, and increased government spending dramatically (in addition to the wars). The full bill arrived when the next occupant was in the White House. That is how Republicans always operate, then claim Democrats are the ones running up the debt when the opposite is true. Intelligent people are able to put facts in proper context and do not live in Right Wing World as you do. I will leave it at that and let you make a fool of yourself - again and without my participation. I trust readers are more than capable of fact-checking on their own.
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Post by Ricohoc » February 5, 2012, 9:19 pm

KHONDAHM wrote:Oh, good grief. Must we go through this AGAIN, Ricohoc?
Yes because Mr. "Independent" Khondahm is never "independent" in his political postings. :D

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KHONDAHM
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Post by KHONDAHM » February 5, 2012, 9:36 pm

I couldn't resist the setup *giggle*

My voting record since Clinton:

1992: Clinton
1996: Clinton
2000: Gore
2004: Paul
2008: Obama
2012: Obama (planned)

Yours? *giggle*
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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by JimboPSM » February 5, 2012, 10:15 pm

KD, you don’t do the case for the Democrats or your own credibility any good by posting information that is both out of date and factually incorrect.

The percentage chart that you posted has been revised, however what is more important is that both the chart that you posted and its revision have been fact checked and found to be fundamentally incorrect a number of times, here is the most recent by FactCheck.org:
Any objective analysis of US debt shows that the majority of it has been incurred over the last three decades starting with the Reagan administration; there is little doubt that the major causes of the increased debt come from unfunded policies and wars that originated during GOP Presidential terms – however, it should also be noted that it does become somewhat greyer when you take into account the impact of the differing majority parties in the House and Senate over the same period of time.

Neither party is innocent; it is only a question of which side is guiltier.

As the baby boomer demographic time bomb has started to go off and the unfunded liabilities that go with the baby boomer time bomb come home to roost, there isn’t a snowballs chance in hell of the debt being reduced without a substantial increase in taxation and/or a substantial decrease in life expectancy.
Ashamed to be English since 23rd June 2016 when England voted for racism & economic suicide.

Disgusted that the UK is “governed” by a squalid bunch of economically illiterate, self-serving, sleazy and corrupt neo-fascists.

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Post by BobHelm » February 5, 2012, 10:25 pm

JimboPSM wrote:text removed.... there isn’t a snowballs chance in hell of the debt being reduced without a substantial increase in taxation and/or a substantial decrease in life expectancy.
Neither policy strikes me as being a very catchy slogan nor a great vote winner Jimbo... :D :D

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Post by Laan Yaa Mo » February 6, 2012, 5:58 am

Why does Khon Dahm always retreat from the debate when he is questioned by Richoh?
You only pass through this life once, you don't come back for an encore.

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Post by KHONDAHM » February 6, 2012, 4:56 pm

@Jimbo - I thank you for discovering the chart I posted has been debunked. I found it on more than one source (the linked source simply had the clearest graphic). I defer to your link to the FactCheck.org article and the entirety of the conclusions of the article (especially Ezra Klein whom I know to be exceptionally credible). That said, my point is underscored and supported by same. Thank you very much.

@Laan - I believe I rebutted his statement and put a question to Ricohoc and have yet to receive a response, so your question is misdirected...
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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by Ricohoc » February 6, 2012, 5:51 pm

KHONDAHM wrote:@Jimbo - I thank you for discovering the chart I posted has been debunked. I found it on more than one source (the linked source simply had the clearest graphic). I defer to your link to the FactCheck.org article and the entirety of the conclusions of the article (especially Ezra Klein whom I know to be exceptionally credible). That said, my point is underscored and supported by same. Thank you very much.

@Laan - I believe I rebutted his statement and put a question to Ricohoc and have yet to receive a response, so your question is misdirected...
Your rebuttal was nothing more than name-calling, as usual.

I stated that your lack of "independence" has to do with your political posts. I could not care less for whom you vote, and your list proves nothing. :lol: :lol: :lol: Why don't you just claim that you made $250,000 in gold investments, or that you own homes in the Bahamas and Madrid? Make a list of those, too. :D

Your question is nothing more than obfuscation. You made a claim regarding government spending that is patently false, and someone else called you out on it. Giggle about that.

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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by KHONDAHM » February 6, 2012, 10:36 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but you voted FOR the President (Reagan) who tripled the national debt and expanded government profusely and AGAINST the President (Clinton) who actually did not only balance the budget, but created historical surpluses and began reducing the debt. You voted FOR the President (G.W. Bush) who let 911 happen on his watch, started 2 unfunded wars, caused the 2008 crisis, couldn't find Osama the whole time he was relaxing in his mansion, and destroyed millions of jobs and families around the world - except China and India who benefitted quite well from his policies. You voted AGAINST the President who ended/is ending those wars, killed Osama AND all his top people, bringing back manufacturing jobs, not only saved the auto industry, but made it #1 in the world again, created the conditions to make the Arab Spring possible, and a littany of other accomplishments touted by Republicans but never achieved by them - in spite of them.

Without name-calling, deflecting, or dodging, how difficult is it for you to simply post your voting record and show us all your great political acumen? I state unequivocally and without exception here and now that I take full responsibility for my votes and the impact those votes have had on the country and the world. I challenge you to do the same.
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Post by KHONDAHM » February 6, 2012, 10:56 pm

Further, Mr. Ricohoc, I never ever stated my posts are "independent". That is silly on your part to even suggest. You remain confused even after I clarified it for you previously. I will do so here again:

I am a life-long registered Independent. That is a political affiliation (or lack thereof, depending on how you look at it). It has nothing at all to do with posting without bias. Try to remember that, or simply jot it down andpost it to your green CRT. I am biased towards the candidate or party who makes the most sense and I post that way.

If you are unable to grasp that, please ask a friend to help you understand or explain it to you so that you can.
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Post by gudtymchuk » February 7, 2012, 7:22 am

KHONDAHM wrote:not only saved the auto industry, but made it #1 in the world again, .
Hmmm, the Chevy Volt... yes, what a prize that has become......
What happens if you get scared half to death twice?

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Post by Ricohoc » February 7, 2012, 9:14 am

Mr. Khondahm, I think you should create about 5 or 6 more posts with meaningless afterthoughts and challenges to me. I could list my financial assets, the number of televisions and computers I have in my home, and maybe even the number of two-wheel and four-wheel vehicles. The information I provide would be just as useless and unverifiable as my list of candidates of preference.

After all of those 5 or 6 additional posts by you, maybe then people won't see your posting of false information and flimsy sources for them, or the fact that another forum member called you out over it -- not to mention your inability or unwillingness to deal with your issue of debt and deficits. Some forum members saw that shrotcoming and commented on it, too.

Now you want to play this game of "who did you vote for?". You've even provided some more incomplete and biased information in an attempt to show yourself in an all-knowing political light. And let's not forget the name-calling, the insults and inuendo that you've thrown in there with it. You really can't help yourself, can you? So typical of you in every thread.

You always provide a red herring to change the topic as information is provided to refute what you posted. It is an argument tactic that is juvenile.

I'm wise to it. I don't play -- especially with you.

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Post by KHONDAHM » February 7, 2012, 12:59 pm

Than you for your reply, Mr. Ricohoc. Predictable though it was. Have a bright and sunshine filled day. :)
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