Now What? (American Politics)

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KHONDAHM
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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by KHONDAHM » February 18, 2012, 6:55 pm

merchant seaman wrote:...explain to me why someone spends millions and millions to get a job that pays, what is it now? 300,000 a year...
...or why someone who is already incredibly wealthy would want to be a public servant...

I continue to contemplate the same question as I have since the first time I discovered decades ago how much personal wealth these politicians have. I could only guess that for many, it would be to obtain information or knowledge to make them or those who support them wealthier and/or more influential (influence = true power). There are some, Joe Biden and Barack Obama, for example, who have a record of public service, shunning special interests, encouraging community involvement, and advocating individual participation. I can find many non-Republican examples, but I can't find any current Republicans as examples. I would appreciate if anyone could offer some up (Federal level)...


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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by Ricohoc » February 18, 2012, 6:59 pm

KHONDAHM wrote:I am sure a case will make it to SCOTUS and the law struck down as unconstitutional followed by a whole lot of civil suits.
You do realize that if this makes it to the SCOTUS, they will have to deal with this Virginia law and ObamaCare in the same light. Both are big government mandates. They can't favor one and not the other. They are both government intrusion into private decisions about health care.

You should also realize that this could all be a ploy by Republicans in Virginia, whose state is involved in the lawsuit AGAINST ObamaCare. This may have been enacted purposely to just show more gross over-reach by government and place members of the SCOTUS in a situaton where they cannot pick and choose.

Just another example of what is wrong IS WRONG -- no matter the name of the tyrant.

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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by kjellsnell » February 18, 2012, 7:02 pm

I don't think the common reader of this forum find the politic situation in America interesting....
These days life seems pretty good and I eagerly look forward to the continuation!

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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by Ricohoc » February 18, 2012, 7:05 pm

kjellsnell wrote:I don't think the common reader of this forum find the politic situation in America interesting....
True. We need to talk about the renaming of soccer stadiums! Now THAT is interesting! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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KHONDAHM
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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by KHONDAHM » February 18, 2012, 7:10 pm

Ricohoc wrote:Conservatives are consistent in their fight against torment and tyranny.
This part, my dear friend, you may want to retract. No, really. You're stepping into a whole pile of historical sht with that statement and you may want to not go there...just fair warning.
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Khun Paul
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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by Khun Paul » February 18, 2012, 8:13 pm

While I amy not in some cases research all the aspects of American Law nor do I research all aspects of American Voring law, what does surprise me is that for a nation of seemingly intelligent people, the law makers or even those who seek to be a representative of the people ( like president/ senators or even congressmen/women ) spend inordinate amounts of money to sway public opinion behind them and in so doing seek sponsors to which they must ulimately repay in some way or another.
Are the people that stupid or is it that over the years the electorate have become so blase about their politicians that unless a politician spends vast amounts no-one will listen to him/her.

When I dallied in politics in the UK, I was allowed to spend only a certain amount, had I spent more ( that included everything even sponsorship ) I would have been declared illegal and even if I won I would lose. That does make one think hard about what you spend your money on .

Now I am not saying that in the Uk the politicians are any better than their American cousins, but we do spend far less money . From my personal perspective it would appear that the Americans get who ever it is that can spend the money, which is not to my mind the best way.

But then I am English and although we cannot vote for our head of stae for the last 60 odd years she has done a fine job, better than ,most American presidents I think. Damn sight cheaper too !!!!!

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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by rick » February 18, 2012, 8:31 pm

Ricohoc wrote:
Conservatives are consistent in their fight against torment and tyranny.
Consistent: Right. In supporting tyranny as long as it was anti-communist (ask most residents of South and Central America; from Chile to El Salvador).

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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by Ricohoc » February 18, 2012, 8:40 pm

rick wrote:
Ricohoc wrote:
Conservatives are consistent in their fight against torment and tyranny.
Consistent: Right. In supporting tyranny as long as it was anti-communist (ask most residents of South and Central America; from Chile to El Salvador).
I'm not talking about the ones who are "conservative" like KD is "independent" -- those who just call themselves that, but don't act it.

I don't even know to whom you are referring, but Conservatives are not necessarily Republicans, rick.

Big government and tyranny is bad no matter the name of the tyrant.

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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by BobHelm » February 18, 2012, 8:55 pm

Ricohoc wrote:Some text removed.... but Conservatives are not necessarily Republicans, rick.
If you want to be pedantic, Ricohoc, which I know that you often like to be... :D

Conservatives, with a capitalised first letter in mid sentence, can rarely be Republicans.
While it can, I understand, refer to Conservative Jew or Conservative Judaism & hence from that route possibly be a Republican, its main use is as a member of the Conservative Party of Great Britain & so highly unlikely to be Republican, indeed I believe that the rules of the party would prevent that being allowed...

If you mean conservative, with a small initial letter that is a different matter...

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Post by Ricohoc » February 18, 2012, 9:29 pm

I wondered when you'd be here to criticize, Bob. Knew it wouldn't take too long. Now all the usual suspects are here.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I will be specific again. I know I've said this before over the years, but the same folks forget. Conservatives do not have a political party in America.

Conservatives in America defend the Constitution, promote free enterprise and nurture individual liberty. Those three main tenets of the Founders covers everything. Anyone who is not consistent in those areas is not a real Conservative.

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Post by BobHelm » February 18, 2012, 9:54 pm

No criticism Ricohoc , just a desire for accuracy.

You do not have a monopoly on that...
The use of the final 'Conservative' in your last post is as inaccurate as, in your eyes, anyone who calls America a democracy. You can't pick & chose the truth, as much as you would like to.... :D

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Post by KHONDAHM » February 18, 2012, 11:30 pm

Conservatives and Conservatism are absolutely associated with the Republicans in American politics. Sorry, but you do not get to choose your own reality.
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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by LoveDaBlues » February 19, 2012, 9:55 am

Ricohoc wrote:
LoveDaBlues wrote:Obama was elected because: (1) he got a high percentage of the vote from 'persons of color'
He did get a high percentage of the vote from minorities, but that wasn't why he was elected. Minorities only make up approximately 30% of the entire US population. Blacks and Hispanics are only about 26%. Minorities could not possibly have elected Barack Obama by themselves. White people had to have voted for him in large number for him to have won in 2008.

If he loses in 2012, it won't be because white people suddenly didn't like his skin color. It will be because he has had a record of failure.
McCain WON the white vote; getting 55%. Obama overcame this deficit by garnering 95% of the minority vote.
As long as whites don't vote in such skewed percentages (95% in this case) the minorities will once again elect
Obama as President.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Voter-Group-White (100 votes) 55% vote for Candidate-Mr-White; 45% for Candidate-Mr-Minority

Voter-Group-Minority (20 votes) 90% vote for Candidate-Mr-Minority; 10% Candidate-Mr-White

Candidate-Mr-White gets 57 votes; Candidate-Mr-Minority gets 63 votes This simple example shows
how a minority that votes as a Block can elect a candidate.

I look for the same thing to happen in the next Presidental election.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I never said Obama was elected by the minorities themselves. I said he got a high percentage of the vote from
minorities. This pushed him over the top. Had minorities not voted as a block Obama would have lost; simple as that.

If he loses in 2012, it won't be because white people suddenly didn't like his skin color. It will be because he has had a record of failure.

So ricohoc, since you have the WHY all figured out then complete this: if Obama wins in 2012 it will be because he......

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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by merchant seaman » February 19, 2012, 10:09 am

Maybe because millions of American's vote for the best looking canidate, according to KD anyway. What other reason could he be elected for, Higher gas prices??

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Post by Ricohoc » February 19, 2012, 10:32 am

LoveDaBlues wrote:If he loses in 2012, it won't be because white people suddenly didn't like his skin color. It will be because he has had a record of failure.

So ricohoc, since you have the WHY all figured out then complete this: if Obama wins in 2012 it will be because he......
... will have convinced people to vote for him.

I can't think of one stance by this administration that the majority of working Americans favor.

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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by Ricohoc » February 19, 2012, 10:33 am

BobHelm wrote:No criticism Ricohoc , just a desire for accuracy.

You do not have a monopoly on that...
The use of the final 'Conservative' in your last post is as inaccurate as, in your eyes, anyone who calls America a democracy. You can't pick & chose the truth, as much as you would like to.... :D
What the hell are you talking about?

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Post by Ricohoc » February 19, 2012, 10:36 am

KHONDAHM wrote:Conservatives and Conservatism are absolutely associated with the Republicans in American politics. Sorry, but you do not get to choose your own reality.
But I do get to choose where I align myself, and that is MY reality. Isn't that what you do, KD? Good for you, but not anyone else?

I am not a Republican, but I am a Conservative, and there are many, MANY Conservatives who have great disdain for the Republican establishment. I am one of them.

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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » February 20, 2012, 4:15 am

BobHelm wrote:
Ricohoc wrote:Some text removed.... but Conservatives are not necessarily Republicans, rick.
If you want to be pedantic, Ricohoc, which I know that you often like to be... :D

Conservatives, with a capitalised first letter in mid sentence, can rarely be Republicans.
While it can, I understand, refer to Conservative Jew or Conservative Judaism & hence from that route possibly be a Republican, its main use is as a member of the Conservative Party of Great Britain & so highly unlikely to be Republican, indeed I believe that the rules of the party would prevent that being allowed...

If you mean conservative, with a small initial letter that is a different matter...

Well, there is a Conservative Party closer to the United States than Great Britain and that one resides in Canada. However, the Canadian Conservative MP's have less independence than their British counterparts, and in most cases must follow the guidance of the whip.
You only pass through this life once, you don't come back for an encore.

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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by jackspratt » February 20, 2012, 7:22 am

Laan Yaa Mo wrote: Well, there is a Conservative Party closer to the United States than Great Britain and that one resides in Canada. However, the Canadian Conservative MP's have less independence than their British counterparts, and in most cases must follow the guidance of the whip.
I understand from previous reading that the UK conservatives have a long association and preference for the whip ........ ............ and handcuffs ......... and latex ............ and ......

Now, back on topic please. :oops:

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Now What? (American Politics)

Post by KHONDAHM » February 20, 2012, 10:14 pm

These are a few reasons why I voted for Ron Paul in 2004. While I will not be voting for him in 2012 (if he were to get the Republican nomination - which is unlikely), I would not be unhappy if he were to win. I would not vote for him because IMHO, Presidents need 2 terms to be effective at implementing changes. Obama needs his 2nd and I just don't see Paul lasting 2 terms at his age. An interesting play would be Paul as VP...I still would not vote for the ticket, but it would attract a decent number of Independent votes.

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