Poor Brit Pensioners .

According to this article many 50-60 year olds will retire without having sufficient retirement income to live , having in lots of cases , remortgaged their homes to fund their current lifestyle or help their children. It points out that whereas before most had finished paying the house mortgage by the age of 55, many are now reaching retirement age of 65 with large debts still outstanding. This plus a drop in property values means they have negative equity and are unable to sell the house to finance their future retirement. It also reveals that many have very little savings, average 6-8 k. As the article says's, not even enough to pay for even a minor repair to the car or the house .
From a Thai perspective it would seem having a Brit retired husband is not the way to go, as he wouldn't even qualify for the annual marriage visa, yet alone be able to make her a house .Thats at todays exchange rates . God alone knows 10 years down the line .
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... verty-they

...and it's only going to continue to get worse and worse. As more and more companies in the UK are managing to wriggle out of their pension liabilities. This in addition to the fact that more and more people have much bigger and longer period mortgages (as said above).


I think any one who has already retired should be thankful with what they have got (however small or large). I even heard some talk that the UK is going to raise the retirement age to 70 at some point in the future.

Anyway chin up

Here in Oz they have aleady raised it from 65 to 67 for men and 60 to 67 for women.

deankham wrote:...and it's only going to continue to get worse and worse... ... talk that the UK is going to raise the retirement age to 70 at some point in the future.

Raising the retirement age in the UK is the easiest way politically of reducing government retirement cost. It going to happen,

This is likely to happen in the U.S. along with taking out more payments for healthcare.

The real fear is the possibility of disallowing or reducing retirement payments to those citizens living in foreign nations.

State Pension age is 65 for men born on or before 5 April 1959 and 60 for women born on or before 5 April 1950.
State Pension age for women born on or after 6 April 1950, but before 6 April 1955, is rising from 60 to 65 between 2010 and 2020.
State Pension age for women born on or after 6 April 1955, but before 6 April 1959, is 65.
State Pension age will increase for both men and women from age 65 to 68 between 2024 and 2046.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Pensionsand ... /index.htm

I find the Mail piece a bit bewildering for them. The 'research' was only done on a very small number of people (1,000) so is a bit suspect. However, what I read into the piece is even if you have done the 'responsible' thing & saved wisely events (corporate fraud & high risk gambles) have defeated your attempts to be responsible.

The monthly income from their pension, known as an annuity, has collapsed by more than 70 per cent over the past decade, according to financial information company Moneyfacts.

Private pensions -hardly worth the effort !!
Agree totally that the Labour Government are responsible for presiding over just about the worst erosion of UK worker rights in their hastening of the removal of Company pensions. Private Company pensions (rather than the Government provided pittance) have been the backbone of a satisfactory standard of living for retirees. Private company pensions have disappeared quicker than global warming ice. In a few years all new retirees will be totally reliant on the Government scheme. This will result in a far larger number needing to resort to other Social Security payouts to survive. Not a good outlook, either for those retired, nor those still working having to support them!!

BobHelm wrote:

State Pension age is 65 for men born on or before 5 April 1959 and 60 for women born on or before 5 April 1950.
State Pension age for women born on or after 6 April 1950, but before 6 April 1955, is rising from 60 to 65 between 2010 and 2020.
State Pension age for women born on or after 6 April 1955, but before 6 April 1959, is 65.
State Pension age will increase for both men and women from age 65 to 68 between 2024 and 2046.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Pensionsand ... /index.htm

Well of course though this might save the govt money from paying pensions it has a knock on effect of increasing the pool of people seeking work. Not all will be able to continue with their current job as a lot of employers are notoriously age discriminatory. against which there is no legislation as there is with gender, colour and various other no no's .This will mean a massive transfer of people from being pensioners to being unemployed or claiming sickness benefit. So its difficult to see where the financial advantage is to the govt. You are also at the same time , increasing the labour pool, making less jobs available to younger applicants .
One thing not often mentioned, is that a lot of benefits are age related, prescription charges for example . with the increase in the age of retirement, your entitlement to these will be delayed until reaching the new retirement age. So a double whammy at what is possibly the most vulnerable time of your life .
I find it incredible that the law compels private pension providers to maintain enough contributions to ensure paying all contributors,whilst the govt collects money from us, on the pretext of paying for our pension and promptly puts that money in the general taxation pot to pay current spending on defence and a multitude of other things .Effectively meaning they can only honour their pension commitments from the contributions of those still working .Our money , paid in over the years has gone .All hell would break loose if that was a private company .

Agree with nearly all you say TB.
'Unemployment' benefit is, of course, means tested after a very short period of time - meaning minimal savings only allowed. Enforcing people to live on their savings even before they retire is just going to compound the issue.
I believe that the Government are clueless as to what to do about the problem (& here I do not just mean the current Labour Government & am including past - probably future - Governments of all political hue).
As you correctly say TB, if the money collected over all these years specifically invested & only allocated to pensions there would not be an issue.
I still firmly believe in the principle of State Old Age pension, the practice in the UK of its implementation & misuse of the funds collected is indeed criminal.

Hi,
My government pensions does me O.K. out in LOS and is well over 800,000B at today's conversion rate, according to the British Embassy letter I got for a extension to my visa for the purpose of retirement. Living well, new house, car and bike all paid for. Could not have done the same back home. Seeing I got married a couple of months ago I will claim for the wife, which will give me a bit more, and I will stop paying income tax on pension which is now just over 500GBP a year.
I had a bit of common sense and paid into a government private pension scheme for the last seventeen years before I retired which netted me 17,000GBP lump sum, plus a weekly income, enough to pay cash for house etc. as the exchange rate was 70-71B to the pound over four years ago.
Really I don't consider myself as a poor Brit Pensioner. I am happy with what I get and am thankful for it. The Thai wife is more than happy. When the GBP started to fall the wife said to give her less per week, this suprised me, with what some people say about the Thais, but i declined and said it was O.K. and thanked her for the offer.
I have not touched my savings yet, but it is nice to have the option.

I do not believe that the article, TB, me, or anyone else were referring to current pensioners, even more to current pensioners who had left the UK.
It is all about people who are about to become pensioners - including people who made what looked to be satisfactory arrangements to supplement anything they were entitled to through contributions.

Yes Douglas. I agree most of us already retired are doing alright. I think the emphasise of the article was on those coming up for retirement in the next 10 years. They will have a problem .There is one thing that may concern us already here though. The monetary requirement of 400k. marriage visa, and 800k retirement ,was set by immigration a long time ago, more than 10 years I think. Presumably based on what they considered necessary at that time. Now in that period inflation has been rampant, possibly an accumulative 20% . So what if they decide to apply that factor to the minimum visa requirement ? That would mean 500k and 1 mill respectively. It would make sense, but for the likes of us we would be facing further financial restraints at a time when , not only have we been hit by inflation, but have seen the local value of our pensions devalued by 30% due to the exchange rate .Worrying .

This is not an attempt to "flog a dead horse" or get anyone "wound up", or gouge any nationality,,,,,, but the concerns expressed continue to point out the basic fallacy of a government-run pyramid scheme not based on individual responsibility but a belief that :

1. A lot of people can individually pay a very small amount and provide a very good benefit to a limited number of the population. It can be social programs like housing, health, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, whatever. This only works when the working population vastly outnumbers the ones not working and contributing.

2. Major changes in the population (ie, a baby boom after WW2) creates a reverse situation where the vast numbers of a particular group (non working, contributing seniors, as one example) can not possibly be supported by a smaller group.
A small number of people can not pay a large amount and provide the same benefits to a huge segment of the population. It can also be created by a breakdown in the economy,,, a significant recession or worse, a depression.

3. That's my point,,,,, it's a Ponzi scheme, a pyramid scheme, and if it wasn't run by the governments, it's organizers would be prosecuted and jailed for doing it.

4. And my reference to individual responsibility has nothing to do with those less fortunate unable to provide for themselves, like mental illness, severe physical handicaps, as some examples. Society does have a responsibility to provide for the common good. But IMHO, a review of most modern societies reveals an ever enlarging shift of a population to entitlement programs, a situation unsustaneable in the long run.

5. The bills eventually come due and Someone has to pay the piper. There is only so much the people will endure and then the bubble will burst.

1958 [the year i was born] looks like a good year to be born British.

I was in the first year when the school leaving went up from 15 to 16YRS.

I will just missed the retirement age going up to 68YRS

The years you need to work before you can claim full state pension. Has been reduced to 35YRS from approx 50yrs.

As I am 51years old. I have my 35YRS done. My income mainly comes from investments [which you dont have to pay National Insurance on, but are Taxed] I have a small busness that pays the bills,beer money & flights to Thailand.

Life for the under 65s is not so bad. But still cant wait for the day that I can retire to Thailand

rhodie wrote:Here in Oz they have aleady raised it from 65 to 67 for men and 60 to 67 for women.

These changes are not immediate, and in fact will not become fully effective until July 2017.

It has no impact on men or women born prior to 1 July 1952.

The UK is in DEEP trouble...
The population of this country is approximately 60 million. 32 million are retired. That leaves 28 million to do the work.. There are 17 million in school or at Universities. Which leaves 11 million to do the work. Of this there are 8 million employed by the UK government. Leaving 3 million to do the work. 1.2 million are in the armed forces preoccupied with killing Osama Bin-Laden, and fighting in Afghanistan . Which leaves 1.8 million to do the work.
Take from that total the 0.8 million people who work for Local County Councils. And that leaves 1 million to do the work.At any given time there are 488,000 people in hospitals or claiming Invalidity Benefit. Leaving 512,000 to do the work. Now, there are 511,998 people in prisons.
That leaves just two people to do the work.
You and me.
And there you are,Sitting on your arse, reading Udon Map.

Yes, there are going to be problems in the future. But the main thing is whatever the next government are going to do to save money. Does not matter who it is, or whatever commitments they made to get elected, it is what they DO which will matter.
Keep your eyes and ears open for suggestions made by current ministers and MPs which then go silent. Among other suggestions that have been made is an IMMEDIATE (well no timescale given, but could be) increase in state pensionable age to 66. That would save about 3 billion a year from implementation. We can expect other changes too. The worst time to retire, if you are reliant on annuities, is probably now. But who knows, could get worse. Expect lump sums to become taxable, that would provide another few billion in extra tax. National insurance on pensions? Why not, may as well kick you while you are down. But not a word BEFORE the election will be heard.

We can assume that the government will protect the poorer pensioners, because there is no point in taxing them if they can just get top up benefits. But everyone else, with more than the most modest personal pensions, will suffer.