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Enoch Powell

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Re: Enoch Powell

Postby cookie » March 6, 2010, 12:07 pm

follow the Thai Way:

deport all migrant workers who still do not have nationality verification papers from their governments


http://www.bangkokpost.com/blogs/index.php/2010/02/26/and-we-still-call-ourselves-buddhists?blog=64

Friday, February 26, 2010
And we still call ourselves Buddhists?

Posted by Sanitsuda Ekachai

It says a lot about our country when the day we chose to expel millions of destitute migrant workers to face violent oppression back in Burma is the same day as Makha Bucha Day.
Makha Bucha is the day the Lord Buddha set forth the fundamental principles of his teachings: abstain from all evil, cultivate good, and cleanse our mind of impurities.

Being human, we stray. But on Makha Bucha Day, we should at least try to abstain from all forms of violence, give to the needy, and meditate on the laws of impermanence to let go of our egoistic attachment - if we still consider ourselves Buddhists, that is.

The first Makha Bucha occurred on the full-moon day of the third lunar month, nine months after the Buddha's enlightenment. This year, it falls on Feb 28, the day when the government ends its reprieve for those who desperately need help - the migrant workers who fled harsh poverty and violent persecution in Burma.

I am talking about Thailand's harsh policy to deport all migrant workers who still do not have nationality verification papers from their governments by Feb 28. About 2-3 million migrant workers will be affected. Most of them are ethnic minorities such as the Mon, Karen, and the Shan who are severely persecuted by the Burmese military junta. Many are Rohingya, who have zero chance of getting any citizenship consideration from Burma.


In response to petitions from rights groups, the Abhisit administration issued an about-face measure last month by making Feb 28 the deadline for just the nationality verification application, and by allowing migrant workers another two years to finish the process.

The softened approach still cannot untie Thailand's Gordian knot of foreign migrant labour because it is based on many false assumptions.

For example, it assumes that migrant workers are well-informed about nationality verification policy and procedures. A survey by the Migrant Working Group shows they are not: 20% say they've never heard about it, 54% say their information from unofficial sources is not clear, and 25% say they believe nationality verification is not mandatory.

The assumption that the workers are willing to enter the process is also challenged. The survey shows 50% of the respondents fear arrest, 57% fear danger for families back home, 48% cannot afford the fee, 46% are at a loss about the procedures, 29% do not have any legal documents in Burma, and 20% fear political persecution. Meanwhile, 26% are certain their applications will not be approved, 56% are uncertain. But approved or not, 68% insist they will not return home.

Another assumption is that the Thai and Burmese bureaucracies can deal with 1.4 million applications within the extended deadline.

But can they?

Last year, only 200,000 applied. Yet, Burma could process only 6,000 applications. Even with Burma's promise to speed things up, we are fooling ourselves if we believe all 1.4 million registered workers will have their nationalities verified and passports issued within the two-year deadline.

So expect another deadline extension, and another, and another.

While registered workers struggle with policy uncertainty, it is certain that life for some two million underground workers will become even more hellish after Feb 28, given the mass arrests and deportation threats that plunge them deeper into slavery.

Face it. The problem is not only a matter of red-tape. It is a matter of heartlessness. It is not that we do not know about the plight of migrant workers. It is because we do not care. More importantly, it is because many people are making money from this inhumanity.

Who we are is largely determined by how we relate to others, and to our ideals. If we have no second thoughts about hurting the weak even on Buddhist holy days, we should use the upcoming Makha Bucha Day to seriously consider whether we can still call ourselves Buddhists.
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Re: Enoch Powell

Postby Laan Yaa Mo » March 7, 2010, 2:24 am

Okay Cookie, you have fooled me.

Expand your analysis a little bit and indicate what this has to do with Enoch Powell, and what this article means to you, and what direction you are going. At the moment, I do not have a clue what you think about the article, or how there is any connection to Khun Powell.

It might belong in a different thread.

Thanks.
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Re: Enoch Powell

Postby charlie » March 9, 2010, 7:49 am

TJ wrote:What isn't being said is that The UK and other nations are destroying their people and culture through being replaced and diminished by immigrants.

Learn from the Thais and history. There should be no easy admittance to the UK of people having different cultures, religions or races. Short stays may be permitted for proper reasons.

At a minimum the general State policy should be somemthing like this: UK citizenship that makes one eligible to hold elected political office and UK government employment and to receive welfare should only be held by UK whites with a history of living many generaltions in the UK. Former colonials need not apply.


Another great racist post from the "Land of the free and the home of the brave" Why dont you pop over and save us with a "regime change?"
How many generations should I have to prove I am British? That policy would leave the "great" usa virtually empty. ( most would have to return to UK or Europe! and we dont want you!) California would be without a Governer!

My plan is easier, quicker and will bring about world peace within days.

CULL WHITE AMERICANS
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Re: Enoch Powell

Postby Laan Yaa Mo » March 9, 2010, 8:01 am

How would such a ridiculous policy bring about world peace in days?

How would the implementation of such a policy be easy and quick?

What does any of this have to do with Enoch Powell?

The poster TJ does not seem to realise that the population in Thailand is a mixture of Tai-speaking peoples (Thai, Lao, Shan, Phu Lao), Malays, Burmese, Cambodians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Indians, hill-tribe people and Mons. You need to read some Thai history, and get your facts straight, before asking us to learn from Thais and their history of racial exclusion.
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Re: Enoch Powell

Postby rick » March 10, 2010, 12:35 am

Well, Tj may be a racist but to all those idiots out there, we all ALL descended from Immigrants. Throughout history, people move in search of a better life. Sometimes they arrive as conquerors, sometimes as slaves, sometimes just as people looking for work. Being white does not make you British, growing up with and accepting British values does.

How about a mass migration of gaelic speaking scots, with their weird accents And disgusting eating habits (haggis and porridge :( ) coming to take english jobs, women and our houses - would that not cause equal trouble?

Only issue is managing migration. Low levels causes no harm, also not a fan of multi-culturalism - Live in Britain, accept British ways. A few ideas will filter into British life, no problem, culture is a dynamic thing. Enoch Powell was maybe right to raise some issues, but 'rivers of blood' was sensationalist crap which prevented proper discussion.

Anyway, too late now. Largest minority soon will be mixed race; you cannot undo what has already been done. The people are here, live with it.
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Re: Enoch Powell

Postby Laan Yaa Mo » March 10, 2010, 6:27 am

Don't forget the odd dress of the highland Scots and that weird instrument they use to produce a musical sound. And, what about Rabby Burns, and those strange songs about high and low roads...no wonder Old-Timer is puking all over the sacred isles. By the way, where did these Scots migrate from? Scandinavia? Ireland?

In the days of the British Empire, the Scots took a lot of administrative positions and seemed to lead the way in business and industry too. What was the reaction of the English at the time?
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Re: Enoch Powell

Postby ronan01 » March 10, 2010, 8:27 am

The "scots" came from Ireland about 800ad (?) - generally they were a Gaelic tribe called "scotii" - they established along the western coast, highlands and isles - well thats a really potted version of the story - but they were the basis of "gaelic scotland and the clans". They intermixed with the Picts. The Norse (Danes, Vikings) started to spread into the British Isles about 950 onwards(?) and interbred with Scot-Pict mix to create what we would probably call the "scot" of today. It is also necessary to consider the "lowland scots" who I think are an English-Scot mix from the border counties and generally dont have the "gaelic scot" strain in them. The (lowland) scots also went to Ulster (Ireland) as part of the Elizabethan plantations after about 1650(?). There is a lot of inter-bredding and mixing of bloodlines i the British Isles.
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Re: Enoch Powell

Postby jackspratt » March 10, 2010, 8:48 am

If the Scots came from Ireland (and I don't doubt that), how did they get to Ireland in the first place?

Given it's geographical location, and on the assumption that the earliest men (and women :D ) in that part of the world originated from Europe, how did they get to Ireland without hitting Great Britain first? :-k
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Re: Enoch Powell

Postby Laan Yaa Mo » March 10, 2010, 8:51 am

Yes, there is a lot of Norman blood amongst the lowland Scots, in particular, from Dundee up to Carnoustie and Brechin and possibly as far north as Aberdeen. No kilts, bagpipes, deep-fried mars bars and clans for them. But, one of their number did invent golf in the 16th century around Carnoustie.

I do not know if Enoch Powell has Scottish blood or not.

Oh, many of the Norman-English pounded Wales into submission, and the Norman-Scots/Norman-English did the same in Ireland. The American family which included Kennedy are good examples of this. Many of the males included Fitzgerald in their middle names, such as JFK, giving away their Norman past.

Good point Jack, and I have forgotten the answer. Where there some large stones (islands) that connected Scotland to Ireland at that time, or did the Catholics have some mystical/actual role to play so that the people could get from one place to another relatively easily?
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Re: Enoch Powell

Postby BobHelm » March 10, 2010, 8:58 am

It should also be noted that the original inhabitants of Ireland did not descend on the Island from some far away planet (although you can probably find a web site that says that they did) but walked there from Europe when UK & Ireland were joined to the mainland...
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Re: Enoch Powell

Postby Laan Yaa Mo » March 10, 2010, 9:11 am

Thanks Khun Helm, I knew there was some connexion between Scotland and Ireland at that time. Interesting stuff this geology and the shifts in continents over time.

Mr. Powell might well be pleased that people are discussing subjects like this since he did have a political role to play in Ireland, as well as on the national scene. This thread has provided some enlightening material in addition to plunging to the depths in the other direction.
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Re: Enoch Powell

Postby ronan01 » March 10, 2010, 11:45 am

The "original" irish probably arrived in Ireland via the "land bridge" to Europe (and Britain) sometime around end of the last ice age (the sea level rose with the melting of glaciers).

These are (I understand) not considered "Gaels" (or Gaelic) - the Gaels probably arrived arrived about 500bc (the dates vary) - some say from Spain others from "Europe" (generally) and by sea - but they definitely displayed the "La Tene" characteristics of the Celt.

The waves of "invasion" to Ireland are described in the "Book of Invasions" and the "Yellow Book of Lecan" - I have forgotten the precise order but think it was:1) Fir Bolg; 2) Tuatha De Dannan; 3) Fomori 4) Milesians; 5) Celtoi.

The "originals" are probably the same stock that inhabitated Scotland / England before being displaced/assimilated by Picts, Celts, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Normans. The "originals" probably were the megalithic tomb builders (like Stonehenge and Newgrange). Some people believe they were the Fir Bolg or Fomori.

There is no doubt there was a common Celtic past for Ireland and Britain, and Europe, and the place names and tribe names demonstrate this. But it is considdred that Ireland was Celtic from about 500bc, and Gaelic from at least 100ad.

The big difference is the Romans never made it to Ireland and Celtic/ Gaelic culture flourished there till about 1650 (depends on how you want to measure it).

Celtic culture basically dissappreaed from Britain not long after Roman arrival - about 30 ad(?) - the Romans left about 450ad(?), and Romans never made it to Scotland (so Pictish culture survived).

The angles and saxons filled the gap in England from about 450 onwards, and held sway till the Normans arrived in 1066.

The Irish defeated the "Norse" about 950 - 1000(?) and expelled them from Ireland.

The Normans ("Welsh Normans") did not arrive in Ireland till about 1170 and were assimilated into Gaelic culture about 100 years after that - they spoke Gaelic and wore Gaelic clothes and hair styles, and refused to acknowledge the English Liege Lord as King.

It was on that basis I wrote that "scots" arrived in Scotland from Ireland about 950 onwards..
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Re: Enoch Powell

Postby rick » March 11, 2010, 5:14 pm

Well, that was an interesting diversion about the ancestry of the scots and the irish. But it certainly shows there is no such thing in the British isles as 'Pure English blood' or of the scots, irish or welsh variety.

Just because there was no major invasions does not mean that mixing stopped after the Norman conquest in England. Many Protestant refugees came to England during religious strife in Europe between the 16th and 19th centuries; with the industrial revolution, workers were not just pulled in from the villages, they came from Europe too; particularly eastern europe. In the days of Empire, people of many races came to Britain, for work, trade, education and as sailors looking for a port; many large ports had substantial ethnic minority communities. Hard to find these now - mainly integrated and intermarried.

So today's migrants just another wave, all be it a big one. Just needs a little work to incorporate them into the 'British race' in the usual way. So, the sooner every one gets cracking in the bedroom, the sooner it will be done!
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Re: Enoch Powell

Postby ronan01 » March 12, 2010, 9:44 am

there is a large "DNA project" going on in UK,and similar in Ireland and mainland Europe - some interesting rearly results in tracking who came from where and who is related to who - think it will take some years to analyse results to a finer level - but for instance there seems to be a link between Bascque (Northern Spain) and those on west of of Ireland - seems "early man" was better at sailing than previosly understood.
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Re: Enoch Powell

Postby BobHelm » March 12, 2010, 10:18 am

I have not seen that anything about study ronan - you don't have a link to it do you??
The BBC did a program "Blood of the Vikings" about the ancestry of The Orkney Islands back in 2000 which had some interesting results..
This is a neat little site about the history of those Islands - including the BBC study.
http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/viking ... netics.htm
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