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Thatcher Government's use of police to control demonstration

General off-topic debates and discussions forum.

Re: Thatcher Government's use of police to control demonstra

Postby rick » May 17, 2010, 5:51 pm

So OT, you got £60,000, the family who should have had the council house to rent got a £70,000 debt instead at a much higher cost. You gained, but did the UK?
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Re: Thatcher Government's use of police to control demonstra

Postby Barstool » May 17, 2010, 6:13 pm

rick wrote:So OT, you got £60,000, the family who should have had the council house to rent got a £70,000 debt instead at a much higher cost. You gained, but did the UK?


Yep. Helped get rid of rate-payer subsidised housing and eased councils' burdens.
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Re: Thatcher Government's use of police to control demonstra

Postby hereinudon » May 20, 2010, 10:20 am

Over the last couple of days, I've tried to pinpoint the 'problem route cause'.
When this is solved, we'll then see 'democracy'.
Quite simply, the 'problem route cause' is 'Vote buying'.
Yes, there are a multitude of factors too numerous to list (social, economic and historic). However, as a first step, solving this problem will result in democracy.
Is vote buying not illegal during elections? If a political party and or a candidate buys votes, does this not invalidate an election win?
If voters are sincere and want 'democracy' and no 'corruption', then the first step is to deal with 'voting'
Easy for me to say, sat at my computer, harder in reality to implement.
So people of wonderful Thailand, we know what needs to be solved, but the question is how to implement the solution?
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Re: Safety in Udon Thani

Postby hairyharry » May 26, 2010, 3:22 pm

the UK electorate got rid of Harold Wilson, thank heaven - mind you servicemen in the armed forces have the vote so I guess you are partly correct udonuk1 - proof there is a first time for everything
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Re: Thatcher Government's use of police to control demonstra

Postby udonuk1 » July 1, 2010, 12:21 pm

Congratulations old timer, yes she created a boom selling off what was previously, public property, especially for people in London. But now, we are paying the price aren't we ? No industry left, workers' wages have dropped because of her (POLICE are workers too) . It was all about selling everything off, borrowing and borrowing, the rich made BILLIONS, middle classes made THOUSANDS, but now the middle classes are beginning to shrink now that we have to pay the bills due to the CONSEQUENCES of what she did. YOU WERE TOLD AT THE TIME !
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Re: Thatcher Government's use of police to control demonstra

Postby Khun Paul » July 1, 2010, 5:40 pm

Another caustic comment from a bigoted man. Industry, well having lived in the Midlands for a time there is industry but as I remember it, the costs of employing people are very high compared to other countries. Why you may ask, well in the main it has to do with Unions, who fight for anything at anytime. I agree with unions for what they were set up for but their singlemindedness has in some places destroyed any hope of industry coupled with the leftist doctrines H & S, political correctness etc:- ( one could go on), Britain needs to take a good long view at itself and decide what it really wants as far as I am concerned.
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Re: Thatcher Government's use of police to control demonstra

Postby lepidoptra » July 1, 2010, 5:56 pm

I must agree with Khun Paul on this one. The miners in the Scargill Country were led like lambs to the slaughter by dear old Arthur. The miners in the Midlands acted in a much more democratic way. The police who always come under fire from extreme lefties were in a very difficult position. I believe they would have acted in a similar fashion whatever government was in power. The current mess that the UK finds itself now was not because of Maggie but the blatant mis-managment of the 13 years of Labour rule. I tend not to take sides in the red and yellow shirt dispute but the violence shown by the Red shirted protest was disgraceful. Of course once again many people will blame the police and army for the violence which is probably no different to the UK. Fortunately we havn't got to the stage when the anti capitalist and anarchists have burnt Harrods down yet. Some people would continue to vote Labour even if their leader called them a Bigot behind their back. Many people in Thailand will always love Thaskin whatever crimes he was found guilty of. :D =;
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Re: Thatcher Government's use of police to control demonstra

Postby BobHelm » July 1, 2010, 6:12 pm

To blame the Unions, in isolation, is foolish indeed & any examination of any industry left in the UK at the moment will not support that...
Car Industry... Only Japanese - Honda and Nissan both have manufacturing plants in the UK...both employ British workers at VERY good rates of pay. Both are profitable companies, producing good products which they sell all over Europe & both have Trade unions & massive employee involvement with any changes the companies wish to introduce....
Why have Trade Unions not ruined these companies, if they are the source of all evil??
Because the cause is more complex than people want to think.
Bad management was the root cause of the destruction of the British owned manufacturing Industry. Bad decisions at the top created stupid unfairness within the workforce who were not consulted about processes they knew far more about. Middle management were actively encouraged by those higher up in the company to 'empire build' & think of the aims & welfare of the Department even if that was to the detriment to the company as a whole.
In this situation the workforce looked to someone to protect their interests & were thrown into the arms of the trade unions.
A couple of things are true about trade Unions...
1. The majority of its members are hard working and their only interests in life centre around improving their families standard of living.
2. It is very easy for an organised small majority to take complete control of a Trade Union because of the political apathy of the huge majority of members.
Both these things happened to the Trade Unions in British owned manufacturing, but worse (from a Government perspective) it also happened in Industries that were directly under Government control - which were equally hidiously managed.
Mrs. Thatchers' solution was to destroy the power of the Unions. Unfortunately that was only a symptom of the problem, not the root cause. That was poor management; which remained unchecked until these businesses either went out of existance or were bought for a song by foreign investors, long after trade Union powers had been greatly curtailed.
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Re: Thatcher Government's use of police to control demonstra

Postby arjay » July 1, 2010, 6:25 pm

UdonUk1, if you want to study Mrs Thatcher, her achievements and her shortcomings, there is some excellent coursework here:

http://www.courseworkhelp.co.uk/A_Level/Politics/2.htm

A couple of extracts:
During its years in power, the Thatcher government managed to weaken the stranglehold labour unions held over industry and government in Britain. Thatcher saw this as a very important part of her plans for the country. Unions had contributed towards, or been responsible for, the downfall of three successive governments. In 1980, 82, 84 and 88 legislation was introduced affecting the Unions. Unions in Britain had priced many of their members out of jobs by demanding excessive wages for insufficient output.

...... at about the same time as the miners' strikes, the Tories won battles with staff at the Government Communications Headquarters. The leashing of unions began to produce prominent signs of economic efficiency: From 1973-9, general economic productivity amounted to 1% or so p.a. Since then productivity has doubled, and in the manufacturing sector it has quadrupled, due, in part to declining union clout.

As mentioned above Thatcher believed very strongly in the freedom of the individual and the removal of the state from the market system. So her government started a series of massive privatisations in 1981 with British Telecom. Thatcher also saw this as a way of stopping the inevitable conflict of interests between owners and workers. Workers in the companies were offered cut - price shares to encourage them to own part of the business. This removed the need for trade unions (although most employees simply cashed in on their shares).

Mrs. Thatcher's tenure included reforms in public spending and social services which helped make Britain's economy more efficient.
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Re: Safety in Udon Thani

Postby Barstool » July 2, 2010, 12:06 am

hairyharry wrote:the UK electorate got rid of Harold Wilson, thank heaven - mind you servicemen in the armed forces have the vote so I guess you are partly correct udonuk1 - proof there is a first time for everything


WIth all respect, HH, the UK electorate weren't given the pleasure. Wilson jumped off the sinking ship in 1976, "Sunny" Jim Callaghan was then elected from within his party and he led an insipid government with no majority through until 1979.
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Re: Thatcher Government's use of police to control demonstra

Postby Khun Paul » July 2, 2010, 6:39 am

Westers, I totally agree the Unions were not the sole problem, in fat Unions and their ilk are inreality never the sole reason but they seem to manage to capture the masses and cause mayhem sometimes. You are right it was the aim of maggie to stifle that power so that the country could move forward but it was by no means the sole cause of problems.

Britain is suffering from a double whammy as it were, not only the mis-management of the last governemt which has always been a trait of a labour Govt but also the worldfinancail crises in which the country was exposed to shady goings on in the banking sector, as with all things it is far more complex than a few sentences, but I do agree that again UdonUK1 is shouting his views as if they are gospel.
Here as far as I can see the Police do not have a clear mandate in fact one wonders if they have one at all, in respect of violent uprisings or meetings.
In the UK Police do NOT normally carry weapons , that may seem to some to be naive but at leat the killing or injuring of a Police officer is still viewed as a very serious offence whreas here and in other countries it is almost acceptable.
In short I can testify that noi matter what a British Police officer may feel privately, most ( 98%) will carry out their dutires no matter who the political party is in force and let us not forget this salient fact, ONLY Her majesty is above the law, everyone else is fair game, a Police officer can arrest anyone he sees breaking the law, regardless of position or status, that is written. Not that many would arrest the Duke or Prince or even the prime Minister but then if you look at it, they do not break the law either, unlike other countries. In fact I can quote something HM said to her Driver, Do not break the speed limits unless you have to for security, that is also written down . You never see being driven at bereakneck spped around the country casuing mayhem to locals and general public alike.
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Re: Thatcher Government's use of police to control demonstra

Postby MALC » July 2, 2010, 8:31 pm

why did they not arrest teflon tony for taking us into a illegal worthless war.
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Re: Thatcher Government's use of police to control demonstra

Postby Khun Paul » July 2, 2010, 9:30 pm

Because if you read the information that was a concensus parliamenty decision, which according to me is then a legal act, whatever you may think. We now know that the information was flawed and the decision was also probably flawed but instead of whinging lets sort it out and get out. The soldiers have to so, we should back them with everything we have got and stop bloody moaning.
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Re: Thatcher Government's use of police to control demonstra

Postby udonuk1 » July 3, 2010, 1:30 pm

lepidoptra wrote:I must agree with Khun Paul on this one. The miners in the Scargill Country were led like lambs to the slaughter by dear old Arthur. The miners in the Midlands acted in a much more democratic way. The police who always come under fire from extreme lefties were in a very difficult position. I believe they would have acted in a similar fashion whatever government was in power. The current mess that the UK finds itself now was not because of Maggie but the blatant mis-managment of the 13 years of Labour rule. I tend not to take sides in the red and yellow shirt dispute but the violence shown by the Red shirted protest was disgraceful. Of course once again many people will blame the police and army for the violence which is probably no different to the UK. Fortunately we havn't got to the stage when the anti capitalist and anarchists have burnt Harrods down yet. Some people would continue to vote Labour even if their leader called them a Bigot behind their back. Many people in Thailand will always love Thaskin whatever crimes he was found guilty of. :D =;


Scargill was right, though wasn't he, all along ? I am sure that MI6, or whoever, infiltrated the Notts miners, the old divide and rule. Clever, you may think , but in a democracy, WHY does the government infiltrate unions, who are just trying to get better deal for their members ?

I remember in the Thatcher era, there were virtually NO jobs in my local paper ALL year , for many years at the start of the 80s. The economic mismanagement was accompanied by NO regional policy, and WHOLE swathes of the country depopulated towards the South. Since that time, workers' salaries have dropped EVERY year, and the Fat Cats have been able to massively increase their own incomes. Police were used in a political way for the first time, terrible terrible times, all because of spite due to the way that the Heath government was brought down, nothing else

Maybe you are a fat cat ? I don't know, you certainly got the cream if you are
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Re: Thatcher Government's use of police to control demonstra

Postby arjay » July 3, 2010, 1:41 pm

UdonUK1 wrote:Since that time, workers' slaaries have dropped EVERY year, and the Fat Cats have been able to massively increase their own incomes. Maybe you are a fat cat ? I don't know, you certainly got the cream if you are
As mentioned above Thatcher believed very strongly in the freedom of the individual and the removal of the state from the market system. So her government started a series of massive privatisations in 1981 with British Telecom. Thatcher also saw this as a way of stopping the inevitable conflict of interests between owners and workers. Workers in the companies were offered cut - price shares to encourage them to own part of the business. This removed the need for trade unions (although most employees simply cashed in on their shares).

UdonUK1, Well salaries haven't dropped every year, have they. I don't know where you got that idea from!

According to the second quote above, (A level course work in Politics), many of the workers became shareholders in their companies, so some must have shared in the cream! ;)
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