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ClimateGate busts things wide open

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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby jackspratt » July 26, 2010, 9:16 pm

Always good to see some 4 year old news from a renown climate change skeptic. :D
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby ronan01 » July 27, 2010, 8:37 am

jackspratt wrote:Always good to see some 4 year old news from a renown climate change skeptic. :D


..... he picked the "climategate" problem a long time before the truth was revealed .......... and since when is there a time limit on statments of fact?

"AGW supporters exercise strong influence over the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), and also over what is published in the professional scientific literature about climate change. Climate rationalists (derogated as “sceptics”) who seek a balanced discussion on the issue, and greater recognition of the dominant role of natural climate change, are subject to harassment, intimidation and censorship.

Policy advice to governments through scientific agencies and academies is corrupted by financial and political self-interest. Public discussion of climate change is greatly degraded by an unremitting press bias and by lavish NGO-funded propaganda towards alarmism in the AGW cause
."

Poor old Jack and his fellow alarmist warmists ....... becoming more and more marginalised every day
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby ronan01 » July 27, 2010, 8:48 am

The Green exodus from the Big Scare

Another Green soul declares enough is enough. It’s a question of conscience.

Physicist Dr. Denis Rancourt is a former professor and environmental science researcher at the University of Ottawa (as green as they come), and has officially bailed out of the man-made global warming movement. He runs a radio show, and speaks with many activists and NGO’s around the world. He claims that the “activists in the developing world, who need to directly defend their own neighborhoods, they understand that this global warming thing is an invention.”

Climate Depot has released a video of Dr. Rancourt: Man-made global warming is nothing more than a “corrupt social phenomenon.” “It is as much psychological and social phenomenon as anything else” .

http://allpainnogain.cfact.org/default.asp

“I argue that by far the most destructive force on the planet is power-driven financiers and profit-driven corporations and their cartels backed by military might; and that the global warming myth is a red herring that contributes to hiding this truth. In my opinion, activists who, using any justification, feed the global warming myth have effectively been co-opted, or at best neutralized,” Rancourt said.

Global warming is strictly an imaginary problem of the First World middleclass,” he stated. Rancourt is scathing of universities (and rightly so):

“They are all virtually all service intellectuals. They will not truly critique, in a way that could threaten the power interests that keep them in their jobs. The tenure track is just a process to make docile and obedient intellectuals that will then train other intellectuals,” Rancourt said.

“You have this army of university scientists and they have to pretend like they are doing important research without ever criticizing the powerful interests in a real way. So what do they look for, they look for elusive sanitized things like acid rain, global warming,” he added. This entire process “helps to neutralize any kind of dissent,” according to Rancourt.

“When you do find something bad, you quickly learn and are told you better toe the line on this — your career depends on it,” Rancourt said.

http://joannenova.com.au/2010/07/the-ex ... #more-9636
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby jackspratt » July 27, 2010, 8:59 am

ronan01 wrote:Poor old Jack and his fellow alarmist warmists ....... becoming more and more marginalised every day


Only in the fevered, conspiracy-wracked minds of the skeptics. :D

As far as Dr Rancourt is concerned, I would suggest his global warming pronouncements are determined more by his political viewpoint than by science. :roll:
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby rufus » July 27, 2010, 9:53 am

Jack, you are familiar with the adage, "Empty vessels make the most sound"? Ronan is getting desperate. It is best to ignore trolls of his ilk.
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby jackspratt » July 27, 2010, 10:00 am

Don't worry rufus - ronan and I go back a long way. :D

He occasionally needs some reality checks and balance on his constant quotes from well-known skeptics and assorted loonies. :lol:
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby ronan01 » July 27, 2010, 11:05 am

rufus wrote:Jack, you are familiar with the adage, "Empty vessels make the most sound"? Ronan is getting desperate. It is best to ignore trolls of his ilk.


Rufus - the man who seeks to exact "retribution" on those who do not share his point of view - yes very sane and rational of you Rufus - keep up the good work.

I usually know I am on the right track when Jackpratt disagrees.
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby ronan01 » July 28, 2010, 8:30 am

rufus wrote:So Ronan, how will you publicly apologise and compensate new generations for the damage you are causing by your denialist rants?


Manmade Global Warming: The Solution

http://ricochet.com/conversations/Manma ... e-Solution

Manmade global warming, like so many other social and economic issues, has become hopelessly politicized. Each side has dug in its heels and has accused the other of acting irresponsibly and dishonestly. For the believers, the other side has become the equivalent of Holocaust deniers; and for the doubters, the other side has become a cult intent on manipulating mankind to remake the world in some sort of natural Utopian image.

The divide has become so great, it seems virtually impossible to bridge the gap. However, I’m not writing for Ricochet merely to outline problems; I’m here to offer real solutions. And I’m not just blowing carbon dioxide.

Let’s assume that a third of the world’s population really believes mankind has the power to adjust the Earth’s thermostat through lifestyle decisions. The percentage may be higher or lower, but, for the sake of this exercise, let’s put it at one-third. Now it seems to me these people have a special obligation to change their lives dramatically because they truly believe catastrophe lies ahead if they don’t. The other two-thirds are merely ignorant, so they can hardly be blamed for their actions.

Now, if those True Believers would give up their cars and big homes and truly change the way they live, I can’t imagine that there wouldn’t be some measurable impact on the Earth in just a few short years. I’m not talking about recycling Evian bottles, but truly simplifying their lives. Even if you were, say, a former Vice President, you would give up extra homes and jets and limos. I see communes with organic farms and lives freed from polluting technology.

Then, when the rest of us saw the results of their actions—you know, the earth cooling, oceans lowering, polar bears frolicking and glaciers growing—we would see the error of our ways and join the crusade voluntarily and enthusiastically.

How about it? Why wait for governments to change us? You who have already seen the light have it within your grasp to act in concert with each other and change the world forever. And I hate to be a scold, but you have a special obligation to do it because you believe it so strongly. Then, instead of looking at isolated tree rings and computer models, you’d have real results to point to, and even the skeptics would see the error of their ways and join you.

So start Tweeting each other and get the ball rolling. We’ll anxiously await results. See, I told you I had the solution. My work here is done.

.................................................................................................................

Rufus and Jackpratt - maybe you tell us what you have done to improve the lot of planet earth and what real results can you point to and say what you have achieved? Or is it a case of do as I say and not do as I do?

Rufus - please provide a reference to my "denilaist rant" that upset you so much that you feel the need to take retribution.
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby jackspratt » July 28, 2010, 8:57 am

I see you have been fishing ronan, and caught a red herring (using a conservative blogger as burley). :D

Individuals have can have very little impact in climate change/global warming unless governments adopt a bit of spine, and start working, both unilaterally and multilaterally on this very real issue.
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby marshallb66 » July 29, 2010, 7:56 am

If I tell you that yesterday temperature was 25 degrees and that todays is 25.03 degrees, I am sure if you were a made climate change non denier you would complain that it is so much hotter!!!! That’s because you believe something that’s not happening so you must agree. It’s your duty to agree to so you are not labelled a denier of the opposite view.
So who in fact is the denier? I can’t work that out. Is it the for or against?
What I can work out is the warming is taking place so slow it’s liable to take thousands of years just to melt the ice in your cold drink at a barbecue.
If the present global temperature trend continues for the remainder of the year, we're bound to hear a growing chorus of reports about 2010 being the warmest year since records have been kept. The first six months of 2010 already appear to have been the warmest first half on record.
Or was it? When you examine the numerical result from the National Climatic Data Center upon which this determination rests, it turns out that January-June of this year apparently topped the previous six-month record set in 1998 by just 0.03°F. Not only is that difference quite small, but there's a good chance it doesn't exist at all and is merely the result of average temperature data being tallied to more decimal places than the accuracy of the instruments recording them warrants. So when someone tells you this is the warmest year ever, you should at least ask for more detail on that assertion.
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby rick » July 29, 2010, 9:04 am

So, Marshall says the data does not support it being the hottest 6 month period, as it is probably only equal to the hottest. Ok, i can live with that. but still drives up the average :( (lets remember, weather is one event, climate is an average). Certainly everywhere i have been the last 2 months has been higher than normal (on 2 continents). We have had a couple of cold winters, but this summer is hot. Individual years do not matter very much, just the rolling average. If the years we loose are cooler than the years we gain, even if not records, we still have a CLIMATE which shows global warming. What causes it and if we can change it are open to debate; all we have is probabilities as to the causes.

We have theories, based on science, as to why it should get hotter. Do we have any theories, based on science, as to why it will not? lets just look, at say, the next 20 years.
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby rick » July 29, 2010, 4:43 pm

And another slightly related problem: Higher temperatures may be responsible for a decline in phytoplankton:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-10781621

In a nutshell - Phytoplankton levels are down 40% over last 60 years - possibly because higher oceanic temperatures cause the water to stratify (not mix) cutting off nutrients. this means less food for zooplanktopn and therefore less for fish. Also less phytoplankton means less CO2 removal (hence more warming?). Of course, there could be other causes (more zooplankton? Toxic chemicals? more UV?) but plankton levels also follow the El Nino cycle of temperature rise and fall.
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby rick » July 30, 2010, 6:34 am

It's only weather, but Moscow and Helsinki set new records yesterday, 39 and 37 degrees C. I believe the desire for a new ice-age also increased...
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby cookie » July 30, 2010, 4:48 pm

We started calling it “climate change” because it’s not all about getting warmer, but when the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s are each, in turn, declared the hottest decade on record, it’s safe to say things are heating up. According to the annual State of the Climate report, the evidence is “undeniable.”



it's only weather indeed, but when you look over longer periods,...

I never under estimate the power of Denial,
but at some moment in time even the Catholic Church had to agree that Earth was not flat :D :D :D :D

Scientists say global warming is continuing

By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID (AP) – 1 day ago

WASHINGTON — Scientists from around the world are providing even more evidence of global warming, one day after President Barack Obama renewed his call for climate legislation.

"A comprehensive review of key climate indicators confirms the world is warming and the past decade was the warmest on record," the annual State of the Climate report declares.

Compiled by more than 300 scientists from 48 countries, the report said its analysis of 10 indicators that are "clearly and directly related to surface temperatures, all tell the same story: Global warming is undeniable."

Concern about rising temperatures has been growing in recent years as atmospheric scientists report rising temperatures associated with greenhouse gases released into the air by industrial and other human processes. At the same time, some skeptics have questioned the conclusions.

The new report, the 20th in a series, focuses only on global warming and does not specify a cause.

"The evidence in this report would say unequivocally yes, there is no doubt," that the Earth is warming, said Tom Karl, the transitional director of the planned NOAA Climate Service.

Deke Arndt, chief of the Climate Monitoring Branch at the National Climatic Data Center, noted that the 1980s was the warmest decade up to that point, but each year in the 1990s was warmer than the '80s average.

That makes the '90s the warmest decade, he said.

But each year in the 2000s has been warmer than the '90s average, so the first 10 years of the 2000s is now the warmest decade on record.


The new report noted that continuing warming will threaten coastal cities, infrastructure, water supply, health and agriculture.

"At first glance, the amount of increase each decade — about a fifth of a degree Fahrenheit — may seem small," the report said.

"But," it adds, "the temperature increase of about 1 degree Fahrenheit experienced during the past 50 years has already altered the planet. Glaciers and sea ice are melting, heavy rainfall is intensifying and heat waves are becoming more common and more intense."

Last month was the warmest June on record and this year has had the warmest average temperature for January-June since record keeping began, NOAA reported last week.

And a study by Princeton University researchers released Monday suggested that continued warming could cause as many as 6.7 million more Mexicans to move to the United States because of drought affecting crops in their country.

The new climate report, released by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and published as a supplement to the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, focused on 10 indicators of a warming world, seven which are increasing and three declining.

Rising over decades are average air temperature, the ratio of water vapor to air, ocean heat content, sea surface temperature, sea level, air temperature over the ocean and air temperature over land.

Indicators that are declining are snow cover, glaciers and sea ice.

The 10 were selected "because they were the most obviously related indicators of global temperature," explained Peter Thorne of the Cooperative Institute for Climate and Satellites, who helped develop the list when at the British weather service, known as the Met Office.

"What this data is doing is, it is screaming that the world is warming," Thorne concluded.
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Re: ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby Michael C » July 30, 2010, 8:48 pm

Doesn't a thread like this belong in the "General Debates & Discussions" section? It is almost like a story of creationists trying to argue against evolution where one side has all the support of scientific evidence along with the scientific community across multiple disciplines and the other side trying to tear it down, but presenting no scientific evidence to counter whatsoever. Only things produced that it was actually something are a lot of lies posted from other websites (those ridiculous blogs and internet "news" sites that could only have an audience on an obscure webpage are my personal favourites) and false accusations, to include one of the posters even falsely accusing me of writing things that I never wrote! Quite interesting that the only members of this forum with any scientific background all see this from one side, as does the overwhelming majority of the scientific community across all scientific disciplines. Although skillful "quote-mining" originally made it into a news story by giving an impression that there was some wrong doing, "ClimateGate" was a non-news story all along that produced no evidence of a single peer-reviewed paper being fraudulent and not even a finding of professional misconduct!
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