Reserve water tank and pump system

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tamada
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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by tamada » June 18, 2013, 10:38 am

Seeking advice from members about installing a water storage tank and pump as a backup supply.

The house is a 4 bedroom with upstairs, 3 bathroom with one of the bathrooms upstairs.

What size tank is recommended as well as the rating for a pump sufficient to run this lot?

Anyone know a local chap with a good reputation for installing such a system?

Many thanks,
tam



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trubrit
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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by trubrit » June 18, 2013, 10:58 am

You will find the pumps are rated depending on how many outlets you will have running at the same time. The size of the tank depends on you , the bigger the better I suppose when the mains go off .Very simple to install , I did most of the work myself. Just a tin of glue and a hand held pipe cutter , like a pair if scissors. One tip I will give you from my experience. Don't buy a stainless tank, look great but hell the water gets so hot when the suns been on them all day. I wish I had got those insulated versions you see everywhere .
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maaka
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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by maaka » June 18, 2013, 11:03 am

Dont get me going on this, or I will never stop..
depends of where you are, in the city, in the sticks, what your daily needs are, how many in the family etc etc...

I am a single semi reclusive bushman, with only rainwater off the roof as my way of gathering water, or have it trucked in when there's a drought..I have a 5000lt/gal concrete water tank, and that can be way to big for a single man, but then again if you are out in the sticks like me, and the house catches fire, then 5000lts and a portable pull start Honda waterpump is the ticket...

if you have a big family, tons of laundry, and a garden, wash the jeep, then 10,000lts water tank is a go..thing is you dont want the water sitting in the tank for to long in hot countries, need to turn it over with fresh stuff, or it will go off, so to speak..me I would go with a 5000lt, you can always add another 5000 later...concrete / stainless, or plastic tank oyiiiiiiiiii. you want the water to be cool...even if you build a roof over it, or sink it into the ground..

a pump depends on whether you have a header tank for gavity and pressure, or you use a pressure pump...generally, if you are going pump up two storey / three storey, you need a pump with plenty of guts..Ray Charles would be a man to talk too / PM..

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tamada
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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by tamada » June 18, 2013, 12:04 pm

I note that tanks here are rated by gallons so range from 600 to 2000 and prices from around 7000 to almost 15000 baht.

Plastic is the way to go. The older stainless ones had a plastic liner that disintegrates and buggers things up.

I just checked the pump here at a 2 up, 2 down house (same as planned) and it is a Hitachi 255ER so assume the 255 is some sort of capacity rating. Adequate for the job here and looks like around 6500-7000 baht online.

I have built huge tanks with stacked concrete well pipes. Lasts for ages.

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KHONDAHM
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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by KHONDAHM » June 18, 2013, 12:28 pm

Ditto maaka's post. Also, if you are truly going for a backup system, then you may as well go gravity rather than pump. A backup system bites when there is no electricity to power a pump.

You could simply elevate the bottom of the backup tank a couple of meters above the level of your upstairs shower head for it to work with gravity. Then connect a feeder line to intersect with the feeder line of the old tank (before the pump, of course) with an open/close valve, then connect another feeder line with an open/close valve after the pump.

If the old tank goes empty, simply open the valve before the pump.

If the electricity goes out, simply open the valve after the pump (or you could just leave it open all the time if your backup tank has a valve to shut off the water supply when full).

To refill the backup tank, simply leave the valve after the pump open and it will refill the backup tank from the mains using your current pump.

This way, you don't need to buy a new pump and the water in the backup tank doesn't stagnate. ;)

Cheers!
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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by rjj04 » June 18, 2013, 2:51 pm

A little off topic but...
trubrit wrote:Don't buy a stainless tank, look great but hell the water gets so hot when the suns been on them all day. .
if that is true, then I suppose one could use a small stainless tank for a hot shower water? Separate piping straight to the shower head and a mixer valve if it too hot? No early morning showers, especially in the "cold" season? Probably would take several years till pay back on electric savings.

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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by GARYZX6R » June 18, 2013, 3:28 pm

Can recommend Udon Hardware in Posri Rd to buy your pump. Steve there is an Amercian Thai and is very helpful. He also recommended an excellent plumber to fix it in for us. Steves shops number is 042 240776

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papaguido
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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by papaguido » June 18, 2013, 5:44 pm

GARYZX6R wrote:Can recommend Udon Hardware in Posri Rd to buy your pump. Steve there is an Amercian Thai and is very helpful. He also recommended an excellent plumber to fix it in for us. Steves shops number is 042 240776
We got our water pump through Udon hardware. Before buying I shopped around and they beat the big stores in price. I don't know that they carry water tanks.

Image

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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by papaguido » June 18, 2013, 5:51 pm

You should be okay with 1000ltr water tank. We're off the water main and I set up our water system by the following diagram. It's set up to run with the tank & pump or straight off the main by passing the tank & pump. There's enough water pressure for our first floor bathroom/kitchen in case we lose power, which is hardly ever.

Image

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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by the-monk » June 18, 2013, 6:44 pm

Good day to all., Here is my situation, it s a small thai style house with 2 bathrooms, single story, 4 adults, no kids.. what tank size should I get ?
I see the blue plastic tanks all over the place in my area . Are the blue plastic tanks the best ? I have noticed that the neighbour s tank (looks like a 2000 litre blue plastic tank) sits on a 30-40 cm concrete base/slab … what kind of base is required ?

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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by SJP17 » June 18, 2013, 8:29 pm

papaguido wrote:You should be okay with 1000ltr water tank. We're off the water main and I set up our water system by the following diagram. It's set up to run with the tank & pump or straight off the main by passing the tank & pump. There's enough water pressure for our first floor bathroom/kitchen in case we lose power, which is hardly ever.

Image

Id like to do the same set up as this, what were the costs ?

Thanks

SJP17

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KHONDAHM
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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by KHONDAHM » June 19, 2013, 12:28 am

The graphic papaguido posted is the same as I described, but with an elevated reserve tank piped in.

If practical, the reserve tank should be elevated so that the bottom of the tank is above the highest shower head. A family of 4 would do just fine with a 1,200 L tank.

[If I could do it over again, I would elevate the tank as described (we live in a village with power outages about 2-3 times monthly). It wouldn't look too nice if I were to do it now for the main house, but I'm designing it into the pool house so it's not even visible from the village road.]

You can calculate the weight of a full tank (1 L = 1 kg) and build a support structure to support 2x what you calculate. The best design will depend upon the elevation required, soil type, and topography. If 1 m or so is required, a 80-100 cm diameter concrete ring with a ~24 mm viva board panel above and below would be a cheap and quick solution and work fine on a flat, elevated, and compacted soil surface. You'll need to look at tower designs for anything over 2 meters, IMO.

Also consider if you are going to water the lawn during dry season. You'll need 2 L per sqm (at least) for that - so, dedicated tanks.
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maaka
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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by maaka » June 19, 2013, 3:57 am

once again I will say it comes down to what you want..

Papaquido's pic is a beauty, but it is still reliant on city water and power supply..sure it will work as a temporary backup should water or power go out, and how long will 1200lt last a family of four and all their needs.. a week perhaps if you include flushing the toilets, and showers everyday.. I guess if Papa drew in a pipe coming off the roof to the top of the tank, that would catch rain water should water be out longer than expected, and you cant truck it in..but if the power went out for any length of time then that changes things...

for example, we had an earthquake here that wiped out one of our major cities, and now three years later people still dont have city water supply, because the ground movement took out the city sewage, water, stormwater systems, and they now need to be completely replaced.

thing for me is, I am completely self sufficient due to my remote location..I catch my own water, and my pumps are powered by solar power..when everyone else is out of power, and water, I am still running..it is only drought that puts a spanner in my works, but then again I have a river nearby, and a spring...so if you just want a simple backup to last you afew days until the city water and power comes back on then Papa's system seems ok, but I do like KD's suggestion of getting pressure by either having a tank on a tower, or having your tank on a hill , or like me, having a 500lt tank in the loft which gives me my water pressure..but you still got to pump it up to the tank, hence my solar pump...

the more I look at this world, the more I am glad I am self sufficient, but good one Tam that you and others are thinking of, or have a backup system..like I said earlier, housefire is a concern to me being so remote, so I have 5000lt tank so I can use that should the house or forest around me set alight and I need to fight it myself, as the fire brigade is 10km away, and being no city supply, tank water is our primary source when house fires occur, or a nearby stream, and failing that a chopper with a bucket...so mate, everyone's needs are different in regards a backup system, so just some things that pertain to my system and why...

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Post by papaguido » June 19, 2013, 6:37 am

SJP17 wrote:
papaguido wrote:You should be okay with 1000ltr water tank. We're off the water main and I set up our water system by the following diagram. It's set up to run with the tank & pump or straight off the main by passing the tank & pump. There's enough water pressure for our first floor bathroom/kitchen in case we lose power, which is hardly ever.

Image

Id like to do the same set up as this, what were the costs ?

Thanks

SJP17
It's been nearly 7 years since the tank & pump were purchased, so I really can't say. However, a 1000ltr tank is between 5K & 6K bt, a water pump about 2500bt depending on size. PVC is cheap, I'd say well under 8000bt for the whole project.

*When we initially purchased the tank & pump my wife had a local guy set it up. He did it without the tank & pump by-pass. Some years later I came across the diagram and I added the by-pass.

A couple of points...

1. Without the pump, the water pressure in my home is sufficient to provide water to 1st floor shower so didn't have a need to elevate the tank.

2. If the water main (city water) is shut off for any reason, we call the water guy to come top off our 1K tank for less than 300bt. The last time we did that was about 3yrs ago when the city water was shut down for about 3 days for maintenance/repair.

3. You can by with a 700ltr tank. The tank is continuously top off from the main as water is consumed. The tank has an internal float which cuts off the water when it's full.

4. Where I live, water & power outages are infrequent, (compared to 5yrs ago) so I haven't had to worry about it.

Either way, if the main is cut or we lose power we're going to have water.

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Post by papaguido » June 19, 2013, 6:44 am

maaka wrote:once again I will say it comes down to what you want..

Papaquido's pic is a beauty, but it is still reliant on city water and power supply..sure it will work as a temporary backup should water or power go out, and how long will 1200lt last a family of four and all their needs.. a week perhaps if you include flushing the toilets, and showers everyday.. I guess if Papa drew in a pipe coming off the roof to the top of the tank, that would catch rain water should water be out longer than expected, and you cant truck it in..but if the power went out for any length of time then that changes things...
City water and power outages are infrequent where I live. The last water outage was about 3 yrs ago when the water company was doing some type of maintenance/repair. Lasted about 3 days and we got by calling the water guy to come top off our tank for less than 300bt, had to top of twice during the outage.

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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by maaka » June 19, 2013, 11:02 am

rodger that, Marine...haha
good for abit of clarification to help the OP.

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Post by papaguido » June 19, 2013, 11:32 am

the-monk wrote:Good day to all., Here is my situation, it s a small thai style house with 2 bathrooms, single story, 4 adults, no kids.. what tank size should I get ?
I see the blue plastic tanks all over the place in my area . Are the blue plastic tanks the best ? I have noticed that the neighbour s tank (looks like a 2000 litre blue plastic tank) sits on a 30-40 cm concrete base/slab … what kind of base is required ?
I think 700ltr tank is sufficient with a 150 watt automatic water pump, unless you're in an area that experiences frequent water supply outages. Then you may want to consider a larger tank and having the number to a private water supplier would be handy also.

Our tank sits on 20cm base and combined with the water pressure in our area it supplies water to our first floor effectively.

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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by FrazeeDK » June 20, 2013, 6:40 pm

have something similar to the diagram posted.. 1100 liter tank built on top of a storage building with a peaked sheet metal roof to keep the sun off the tank.. City water feeds directly to 1100 liter tank which has a floating ball valve to shut off the main when it is full.. The tank feeds to a Hitachi demand water pump which pressurizes the house water pipes and feeds the toilets sinks and showers. We too rarely have significant power outages other than just the other day when a lightning strike on the east side killed power for about 8 hours.. I finally went out and bought the fittings to bypass my demand pump and directly feed the house from the tank per KD's explanation... Oh, BTW, as near as we can figure our 1100 liter tank gives us about 5-7 days of water in the house...
Dave

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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by RLTrader » June 20, 2013, 7:19 pm

Hmm, I must have thin blood or is it thick? My stainless 1100 liter tank gets sun from early morn to around 3PM, I take a shower at anywhere between 10 and noon, sometimes as late as 4 or 5, and still run the hot water. Maybe its because my pipes run under ground? But anyways the cold is cold.

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Reserve water tank and pump system

Post by KHONDAHM » June 20, 2013, 10:21 pm

RLTrader wrote:Hmm, I must have thin blood or is it thick? My stainless 1100 liter tank gets sun from early morn to around 3PM, I take a shower at anywhere between 10 and noon, sometimes as late as 4 or 5, and still run the hot water. Maybe its because my pipes run under ground? But anyways the cold is cold.
Your tank is effectively solar heated. The earth acts as insulation (below 6 ft earth would act as a cooler). So, it makes perfect sense that your water runs hot. You didn't state it, but it runs really cold during cold season after it cools overnight, then warms up considerably by noon, right?

Shade the tank and the temperature will fall to ambient.
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