Qantas Suspends All International And Domestics Flights

by **bubbles** » October 30, 2011, 5:25 pm

Hi Sport, good answer to this asshole joyce but thats they want for the Qantas to go down and resurrect in Asia with low class wages more for there pockets, forget about the workers back in Ozzie, and the national Icon they should have never sold the Airline from the government, put an aussie Icon back in charge of the Airline but I am afraid that may be to late as all travellers will abandon the airline, thats what Joyce the unnaturalised aussie will want for his own pocket. all our ICONS are going.

by **grozza** » October 30, 2011, 5:40 pm

jackspratt wrote:You have a different interpretation of that email than me, bubbles.

The date on the memo was Wednesday October 26 and is addressed to team leaders saying: "By now you may be aware Qantas has announced a precautionary grounding of its fleet from 5pm Saturday", and warned of the Monday lockout.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-30/p ... ve/3609006

The email talks of past events, not anticipated (ie future) events.

jack if you think that this is a snap decision by qantas i think you are wrong,this company would have had this planned for a long time since they decided that they were stopping negotiations with the unions,they would have had a plan (a ) and plan (b) plan b being if worst came to worst we would shut down the company and force the goverments hand to step in and take action because it is now an issue regarding the australian public,not a 100% sure but i think you will find it will be sorted out by 8pm monday when the shut down begins,just my thoughts

by **rick** » October 30, 2011, 7:20 pm

Many 'flag carrier' airlines have run into trouble in the last 10 years. Historically with little or no competition they tended to be complacent and unable to modernise in the more challenging market. Sabena, Swissair folded under the strain; others like Alitalia and Air India are in deep trouble and without government support would soon be bankrupt.

It is amazing that Quantas can still boast a profit, but it is certainly clear that over the last few years as an international airline there once excellent record is a thing of the past; and the prices are not competitive, they depend on customer loyalty which is on the decline. The current management actions do seem OTT but some shakeup is surely needed. Half the fleet is obsolete and due to be replaced in the next 2 years, can they afford it?

by **JimboPSM** » October 30, 2011, 7:35 pm

While I don’t know enough about the background to the decision to comment in detail on the rights or wrongs, my observation on the manner (so far) of its implementation is that it looks like a real customer relations disaster.

Aviation is a service industry where, particularly on international routes, there is a lot of competition just ready, willing and able to capitalise when another airline shoots itself in the foot.

While there may have been quite a build up to the decision to ground the whole operation, the way the decision was delivered comes across as a rather petulant kneejerk decision giving no consideration to the people who actually pay the wages, the customers who, at the drop of a hat, have been left in the lurch.

If the airline is uncompetitive it certainly did not get that way overnight; if the airline is uncompetitive, it demonstrated mind bending managerial stupidity, incompetence and ineptness to have raised the remuneration package of the CEO by 71% only a matter of hours before grounding the operation #-o

It’s too late now the opportunity is gone, but if the CEO had immediately declined the increase he might have gained some of the moral high ground and some degree of credibility, instead he has made himself part of the problem and not part of the solution (in some ways analagous to BP and Tony Hayward).

Although (as I said above) I don’t know the background, the impression that I have gained from the frequency of bad news over the last year or so (even though all the bad news would appear not to have been self inflicted) indicates that there may be something wrong at the top; although difficult to prove the correlation, bad managements tend to attract bad luck and good managements tend to attract good luck.

Customer loyalty, even with frequent traveller schemes, is hard to get and much easier to lose.

by **jackspratt** » October 30, 2011, 7:38 pm

bubbles wrote:Hi Sport, good answer to this asshole joyce but thats they want for the Qantas to go down and resurrect in Asia with low class wages more for there pockets, forget about the workers back in Ozzie, and the national Icon they should have never sold the Airline from the government, put an aussie Icon back in charge of the Airline but I am afraid that may be to late as all travellers will abandon the airline, thats what Joyce the unnaturalised aussie will want for his own pocket. all our ICONS are going.

bubbles you seem to be confusing icons with businesses.

Don Bradman and Phar Lap are icons (although not strictly within the definition). They can afford to be complacent, because they have little or no competition.

Qantas is a business with lots and lots of competition, and businesses (particularly international ones) do not survive if they are complacent, and pretend they are icons.

by **bubbles** » October 31, 2011, 3:27 am

Qantas back up in the air some time today, Fair Work Australia have ordered that all industrial action to stop and they have a period of twelve weeks to sort things out, answer to jackspratt Qantas to all ozzie's is an icon like phar lap etc, but Qantas has never traded at a lost it is one of the most successfull airlines in the world making profit every year all they have to is some of the top people stop voting for more wages for yourselves share it around the real workers who actually work, also then could rduce fares and gain more passengers.
GO THE FLYING KANGAROO

by **coxo** » October 31, 2011, 9:22 am

The facts are Qantas posted a $250 million profit last financial year, the cheif has granted himself a 71% pay rise, some not all were negotiating a 2.5% payrise in line with the inflation rate, thus to maintain the standard of living expected in Australia, if wages dont increase with inflation we will become a third world nation with low wages and they wont have to relocate to Asia, or else in Australia it will be only lower class, upper class and no middle class.
I beleive some of the current Qantas board are people who were directly involved in the MUA & Patrick dispute in 92, seems like the same tactics were deployed here. The present Government hasnt been part of this dispute, I beleive its a product of Howards workplace relations bill that did away with set award rates of pay.

by **jackspratt** » October 31, 2011, 9:29 am

I am not sure if Alan Joyce deserved an up to 71% pay rise - you would need to look at his contract to determine that.

However, I am certain he did not grant it to himself - it was decided on by the Qantas board, and backed by 96% of the voting shareholders at the recent AGM.

by **coxo** » October 31, 2011, 9:34 am

He didnt ask for it I suppose, they offered it out of the goodness of there hearts.

by **trubrit** » October 31, 2011, 9:41 am

coxo wrote:He didnt ask for it I suppose, they offered it out of the goodness of there hearts.

Know nothing about Quantas but it is normal for a company CEO to have a percentage of the profits clause in his contract, so he wouldn't have to ask for it or the share holders to offer it. It would have been part of the salary terms offered to obtain his services in the first place .

by **BobHelm** » October 31, 2011, 3:53 pm

As usual Jimbo, a well considered financial business piece removing all the unnecessary emotion out of a situation.
& I am not saying that just because I agree with what you are saying, although that does help...

Unfortunately 'shareholder power' is a thing of the past with most companies. Few private individuals hold sufficient shares to influence company decisions in any company any more. Most of the majority shareholders are 'corporate owners' - large insurance companies, pension funds & banks. These people are merely employees themselves & are not investing their own money, but that of others. The cosy & mutually financially beneficial relationship that exists between these investors (the employees of the Financial institutions) & the Senior Employees of the quoted companies that they invest in means that the Board of Directors of most major organisations can have a free hand when deciding strategy & financial remuneration.

by **Aardvark** » October 31, 2011, 5:54 pm

Can't be Arsed looking for it now but apparently they have not payed a dividend for two years :shock:

If I were a Share Holder I would be rather peeved (to put it nicely) at the boared giving Mr Joyce such a generous offer of 71% and squabling over a 2% increase for it's Workers :confused:

Corporate Australia, hold your Heads in shame [-(

by **jackspratt** » October 31, 2011, 6:04 pm

Aa then you would be at odds with the market, which I imagine has factored in that if these disputes end up being arbitrated, the unions will be the big losers.

Shares in Qantas have jumped 4.3 per cent to $1.61 after Fair Work Australia ordered that its grounded flights resume and industrial action cease.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-31/m ... ap/3611222

The 2% pay rise is probably the least of Qantas's concerns, despite the fact that the workers are already way over the international market - which is where Qantas operates of course - price.

My understanding is that award conditions such as guaranteed jobs etc are what is concerning Qantas the most.

by **Bandung_Dero** » November 2, 2011, 3:25 pm

Bit off topic but this is exactly why airline pilots are paid so well and deserve every cent. Yesterday, no undercarriage and no injuries.
Link http://avherald.com/h?article=4456bd6b&opt=0

by **bubbles** » November 2, 2011, 4:21 pm

Exactly what you said Bandung they are worth every cent when they do there courses there is no error for mistakes they certainly deserve what are are asking for

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