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Ship of Fools - the Death of the Republicans

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Ship of Fools - the Death of the Republicans

Postby jackspratt » November 24, 2008, 8:07 pm

A superb column from Lexington in the Economist from a couple of weeks ago.

Just a few tasters:

JOHN STUART MILL once dismissed the British Conservative Party as the stupid party. Today the Conservative Party is run by Oxford-educated high-fliers who have been busy reinventing conservatism for a new era. As Lexington sees it, the title of the “stupid party” now belongs to the Tories’ transatlantic cousins, the Republicans..........

The Republicans lost the battle of ideas even more comprehensively than they lost the battle for educated votes, marching into the election armed with nothing more than slogans. Energy? Just drill, baby, drill. Global warming? Crack a joke about Ozone Al. Immigration? Send the bums home. Torture and Guantánamo? Wear a T-shirt saying you would rather be water-boarding. Ha ha. During the primary debates, three out of ten Republican candidates admitted that they did not believe in evolution........

And in a desperate attempt to serve boob bait to Bubba, he (McCain) appointed Sarah Palin to his ticket, a woman who took five years to get a degree in journalism, and who was apparently unaware of some of the most rudimentary facts about international politics..............

Why is this happening? One reason is that conservative brawn has lost patience with brains of all kinds, conservative or liberal. Many conservatives—particularly lower-income ones—are consumed with elemental fury about everything from immigration to liberal do-gooders. They take their opinions from talk-radio hosts such as Rush Limbaugh and the deeply unsubtle Sean Hannity. And they regard Mrs Palin’s apparent ignorance not as a problem but as a badge of honour........


Read the rest for yourself here:

http://www.economist.com/world/unitedst ... d=12599247
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Re: Ship of Fools - the Death of the Republicans

Postby BobHelm » November 24, 2008, 8:47 pm

I think it is cyclical Jack.
Labour party were unelectable for years, along came Tony & re-invented them. UK was fed up with Conservatives - too long in office, too many broken promises so Labour elected with enthusiasm.
Now Conservatives were unelectable for years. along came Cameron & re-invented them. UK fed up with Labour - too long in office, too many broken promises & I imagine Conservatives get elected with enthusiasm.
For USA substitute Republican & Democrat & any names you like... :D

Problem is nothing actually changes, intelligent wizz kids or dumb asses - they all end up looking after number 1 & sod the masses... :shock: :shock:
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Re: Ship of Fools - the Death of the Republicans

Postby WBU ALUM » November 24, 2008, 8:55 pm

BobHelm wrote:I think it is cyclical

True.

Similar articles were written after LBJ and Vietnam and Nixon won. Similar columns were written after Watergate and Nixon when Carter won. Even more articles were written about the Dems after George Bush was elected for two terms.

In 2010, there will be another election in Congress. If the Dems reach too far, as they have in Congress before, the voters will put them out and Republicans will take their place. Elections every two years in Congress always affect a president's ability to get his agenda passed.

Cycles.
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Re: Ship of Fools - the Death of the Republicans

Postby Ter » November 24, 2008, 8:56 pm

True but cynical if not clinical.. :D :D
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Re: Ship of Fools - the Death of the Republicans

Postby jackspratt » November 24, 2008, 8:58 pm

No argument from me Bob.

Same thing happens in Oz. After the national election 1 year ago, the pundits were slipping in to Howard and the Liberals (sic), saying they were gone for all time. Funnily enough they said the same about Labor in 2002.

Of course the key word is "re-invent". One would hope there is enough intellect left (no pun intended :D ) in the Repubs to figure out what the problem is.
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Re: Ship of Fools - the Death of the Republicans

Postby westerby » November 24, 2008, 10:53 pm

The Oxford High Fliers of the Tory Party haven't really come up with anything ground breaking in the way of policies (if they've finally decided what they are). Rather, they've been trying to formulate methods of making themselves electable in trying to recover the Middle Ground that they lost to Bliar in 1997. Would Cameron and Osbourne have approached the global Credit Crunch in a different way to Brown and Darling? Probably not. Will the Tories have the will to radically change the structure of the NHS? No, they'll probably just tinker with it. In summary, both Parties will aim to occupy the centre ground and will create their policies around that - there's very little difference between them today.
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Re: Ship of Fools - the Death of the Republicans

Postby sgt » November 25, 2008, 8:34 am

The pendulum swings, this time in the direction of the (hopefully) good guys. Too bad it took so long, especially when all the evidence was there from the beginning.

For many of us that were part of the Vietnam debacle and came home to do our best to stop that war, finally watching tricky dick run out of office led to a let down of vigilance on our part. One of our objectives was to insure that another generation never had to fight an unnecessary and illegal war. In this we failed. We went to sleep and evil never sleeps.

The repungents will be back, with a vengence just as they were with the neo-con/facists.
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Re: Ship of Fools - the Death of the Republicans

Postby WBU ALUM » November 25, 2008, 8:54 am

sgt wrote:For many of us that were part of the Vietnam debacle and came home to do our best to stop that war, finally watching tricky dick run out of office led to a let down of vigilance on our part. One of our objectives was to insure that another generation never had to fight an unnecessary and illegal war. In this we failed. We went to sleep and evil never sleeps.

Wasn't LBJ the one who escalated the war in Vietnam, and Nixon was the one who reduced troops and finally ended it?

How in the world do you define fascism?

There are four components necessary to have a fascist state.

First, it is a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power. We have never had that in the US. We have three branches of government with checks and balances. The closest it came to total control was during FDR's administration when he wanted to increase the size of the Supreme Court in order to control it with his appointees and get all of his New Deal programs passed, even the unconstitutional ones (FDR's Court-Packing Plan). The Dem Congress nixed it.

Second, opposition and criticism of the majority party is forcibly suppressed. That hasn't happened. The US media has certainly been able to exercise its freedom of speech, and it sang loud and clear during Vietnam and Watergate. The media even makes public any war plans or strategies that it hears about. However, we came close to controlling criticism during the Wilson administration during WW 1 with his Espionage and Sedition Acts passed by Congress.

Third, all industry and commerce is regimented under government control. That is closer to happening under liberal Congresses than under conservative politicians who favor free enterprise.

Last, the government emphasizes aggressive nationalism and sometimes racism. Again, hasn't happened, but came close in the FDR administration with the internment of the Japanese during WW2.

America thus far is the furthest place I can think of from being a fascist state.
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Re: Ship of Fools - the Death of the Republicans

Postby sgt » November 26, 2008, 7:50 am

Yes LBJ escalated and tricky dick expanded it until forced to begin withdrawal. tricky dick didn't end the war, the people did due in large part to the anti-war GI Movement and anti-Vietnam War Veterans. I like the following for an explanation of the neo-cons and where their policies could have been leading America. And remember, Obama hasn't taken the oath of office yet, the neo-cons implemented a lot of the Huston Plan and the Rand Coorperations plans that tricky dick didn't have the guts to do. It will be a cold day when one can say that the present Congress is liberal.

Fascism: When bad things happen to good people
By Paul Fish / The Rag Blog / September 28, 2008

A good and recent read is John Dean’s Conservatives Without Conscience which is really a rather dispassionate and mildly scholarly view of how corrupted core values and mindset can lead anyone, anytime to do things that go against their own “self interests” (to put a non-scaremongering euphemistic phrase in there). The truth is that Dean, who is still a conservative in the old Barry Goldwater sense, wrote this with a focus on the Reagan Revolution crop of neocons.

(Goldwater was viewed as “radical conservative” in his time, but would now be labeled a member of the far-left by the current crop of neocons, so successful has the Neo-Fascist revolution progressed in changing our language. Think “liberal” as a new four-letter word, when this country was, is, and always should be a shining example of a liberal experiment in government — and one for which being a liberal ought to be an honorific, a badge worn proudly.)

About tedious scaremongering itself, as opposed to calm and reasoned planning focused on “today”: I apologize for trotting out a hoary truism (while paraphrasing it) with the concept that to be ignorant of history (either not knowing it or practicing denial) dooms a people to repeat it. In the world of strategic planning, it is always best to understand the core of the opposition because, otherwise, you will never effectively counter its threat.

While not a member of the Jewish culture, and being of the first generation after WWII, I do not have direct experience of the fascist regimes prevailing during that period, nor direct experience from the changes imposed upon the European public over the period leading to military action and the organized ethnic purgings against Jews, Armenians, Poles, gays and general dissidents. I only know what I know from many, many readings of history of my parents’ times.

What I have gathered from those readings is that, for the most part, the step-by-step process that led directly to concentration camps, gas chambers and ovens, was that the citizens of the various European countries involved tended to go along with the step-by-step stripping of their rights, accepting the overthrow of their more democratic forms of government, and accepting racist hateful arguments of threats to their existence. They did so because most were relatively decent people, who could not fathom that “this could happen here.”

The citizens of Germany and Italy became complicit in that overthrow of their liberties and freedom of will because they just could not wrap their heads around the idea that the drip, drip, drip erosion of their freedoms could ultimately lead to where it eventually went. There were plenty enough citizens to stop the brownshirts, to stop the Italian fascistic factions if they had just taken off their blinders of denial and risen up en masse. But they didn’t. It just couldn’t happen here.

So what is happening here?

That there may be hundreds or thousands of people choosing to use aspects of fundamentalist theology to justify committing acts of terrorism is real. Nineteen people acted, rationalized by select sections of their theology, within this country and attacked what they saw as symbols of things they deeply resent about our country. However, most of the reactionary rhetoric used by our current administration and other neocons in general appears to target almost all who share the faith of the attackers, or who derive from Middle Eastern physical types similar to the physical types of the hateful 19.

To generalize like that — and don’t tell me you don’t see it, otherwise why is it an “attack” on Barack Obama to suggest he is Muslim? -- is no less racist than the fear mongering about the “great Jewish threat” peddled from Hitler and his brownshirts.

One key factor to what is “fascist” is letting the State (read that: government) dump “unnecessary” liberties and only keep those that are “essential,” as determined by the State. We have allowed the Patriot Act. We have allowed spying on citizens. We allow rendition. We allow habeas corpus to be suspended. We allow “enhanced interrogation.” We allow rewriting of near-history to support us perpetrating hateful actions (read that: outright lying from the neocons) — like invading a country that was no threat to us.

Liberties gone, and Fear as a Tool? Check.

Another key factor to what is “fascist” is that there be a single father-figure leader, but one who has total power (the term “dictator” will do, though having an Imperial Presidency is fairly faithful to the concept). The State, with this dictator as titular head, tells you that it/he is privy to information not available to the masses and, as a direct result, knows much better than the masses what is really at play in the world, knows what is best for the people. How many times over this past eight years have we heard the phrase “We have secret intelligence that shows heightened activities by…” you name it? “Based on this secret intelligence it is imperative that we now…” take this action (go to war, spy on you, torture people that we [through our secret intelligence] know to be enemy operatives — though they must never stand trial in public because our secret intelligence will be revealed, ad infinitum)?

Do we now have a dictator instead of president? Well, okay: “Dictator” seems such a harsh word; “Imperial President” seems so fuzzy and soft. Why not go with some other more euphemistic name — you know, like “Decider”? Dictators decide what action to take and make it happen, and nobody can stop him/her from doing it. Like domestic spying (nothing happens, even though it is a felony at the time it takes place). Like torture (which is a crime, well, just about everywhere more enlightened people rule). Allow oil companies to create our energy policies in closed door sessions ( civil crimes of conflict of interest and flaunting the Public Records Act). Turning the Department of Justice into a one-party kangaroo court. And, as a final nail if it goes through, the Secretary Paulsen presented bailout plan (surely at least partly penned by David Addington), there is the power-grab clause 8a which tells Congress that is has no active part in handling the nation’s purse strings, and tells the Judicial branch it has no power over executive office decisions.

Check all your balances at the door if that clause goes through because, voila! we will have placed the cornerstone brick into the wall of the first American dictator.

Dictator/Decider in place? Check.

Some who say the argument about a new form of fascism taking root here is faulty base part of their argument on this: Under fascism, all of industry belongs to the State. I suggest that the arising neocon/neofascist has created a new flavor of fascism by holding a mirror to that core concept. Whether the State controls all of industry and finance or finance and industry controls the State (the neocon twist) still leaves you with one thing: A Corporate State. Palindromes still end up being the same word, no matter from which end you start your spelling. A corporate state is a corporate state and, so long as the State takes its marching orders and implements decrees from a titular-head decider, it does the duck walk and quacks.

Corporate State? Check.

Finally, and this is no afterward, no afterthought, what about all this neocon chatter over the past 30 years about restoring morality and ethics to a culture gone astray? That neocon Christianity thing? Sorry to say it folks, but that is covered under the tenets of fascism as well as being instrumental in “normalizing” diverse opinions to better reflect the ethos and “morality” of State “virtues.” It is central to controlling the masses (a political end, political tool that has been used throughout the history of humankind since the first time a king or emperor claimed he or she was also a god or tuned into secret divinations from on high, directly or through their personal High Priest). To tell someone that you want half their crop just because you are a king or queen is far, far less compelling than if you tell your people that the rain will stop, mothers will be barren, that they will be visited upon by famine or pestilence or have a one-way ticket to the flaming pits of hell if they don’t.

State Religion? Check.

On the off chance some may feel I’m just making this all up, pulling these tenets of fascism straight out of nether anatomical regions, I have one further reading recommendation, though it is a bit of a tough to slog through: Go a-Googling for “The Doctrine of Fascism” by one Benito Mussolini from 1932. Hitler was not the guy who created fascism; that was good old “let’s restore the Roman Empire” Benito. You are probably safe in skipping past most of section one because it is all vague sky-pie generalities. However, if read from a “here in America” perspective the second section, which spells out in by-the-numbers concepts all the working parts of fascism, it is amazing how close it reads to maybe the Podhoretz, Reagan, Cheney, Rove and Bush playbook, with stark parallels in ways I’ve discussed above as well as many others not mentioned.

Do I share this as some “hair on fire” rant with intent to incite panic? No. Fear? Well, yes: Fear by itself is not a bad thing. It evolved as a survival mechanism across millions of years. Fear is not an end, it is a motivator. Anger? I hope so. Because this “Revolution” that Reagan, Pat Robertson and Norman Podhoretz started is not some intellectual exercise, or some too-cute-by-half term used to describe reinstituting American values our wayward culture lost along the way. It is a revolution.

The crop of neocon believers in this revolution — meaning overthrowing the core tenets of this republic — never, ever agreed with the Constitution as it was originally written and has evolved for the past few hundred years. They descend from a malcontent minority present at the start of this country, and whose ideologies were never added to the country’s founding principles. The authors of this country were too liberal for their tastes. They descend from the nation’s forefathers who wanted Washington to be not the First Citizen President; they wanted him to be our new king. For life. They did not want checks and balances. They wanted, on the one hand, a monarchical central leader, but with feudal Nation States under him. They never wanted a central Constitution at all. So the new neocon verbiage “strict construction” is code language for strict deconstruction in reference to the Constitution and Bill of Rights. They do not like this liberal country, founded by liberals, and run by an uber-liberal document called the Constitution.

They do not want a Bill of Rights but, instead, a Bill of Prohibitions. Otherwise these new revolutionaries would not constantly be arguing for amendments that strip or limit rights.

And, under the administration of Bush the Lesser, half of that Constitution is already gone, already in tatters. We are maybe one last election away from fruition for their revolutionary plan. Unless, of course, a security Red Alert is issued in October, with “secret intelligence” that there is a suitcase nuke loose in our borders, that Martial Law is declared to “protect us” and the elections are suspended until the threat is neutralized. Which it never will be. And Bush the Lesser remains our Decider. Strange to think that it could be that close at hand. And Bush the Lesser has the power, will, and demonstrated willingness of deceit to do it.

No. I do not see the “change” that’s needed as a matter of merely restoring decency or fairness or bi-partisan negotiation or ending one given war. We can not negotiate with those who wish to overthrow the republic. We must use what non-violent tools we have left to throw them out of power, to keep them from completing their converting this country to something our founders would recognize all too well, and which the founders committed tears, sweat and blood to get rid of: A vast anti-liberal tyranny.

All that, and Condi Rice just admitted that strategies for using torture took place in the White House before it was implemented as a policy of The State. And none of them are yet in jail.

I’m just saying.
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Re: Ship of Fools - the Death of the Republicans

Postby aznyron » November 26, 2008, 8:46 am

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> excellent post SGT
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Re: Ship of Fools - the Death of the Republicans

Postby WBU ALUM » November 26, 2008, 9:28 am

So, I take it that this Rag Blog is the gospel for you.

Congratulations.

America is still not, now or ever been, a fascist state, no matter how much you wish that to be true and no matter how many Rag Blogs there are out there. That's an insane comment to make no matter how much you hate the Vietnam War.
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Re: Ship of Fools - the Death of the Republicans

Postby LoveDaBlues » November 26, 2008, 10:10 am

One key factor to what is “fascist” is letting the State (read that: government) dump “unnecessary” liberties and only keep those that are “essential,” as determined by the State. We have allowed the Patriot Act. We have allowed spying on citizens. We allow rendition. We allow habeas corpus to be suspended. We allow “enhanced interrogation.” We allow rewriting of near-history to support us perpetrating hateful actions (read that: outright lying from the neocons) — like invading a country that was no threat to us.

=D> =D> =D>

Liberties gone, and Fear as a Tool? Check.

Another key factor to what is “fascist” is that there be a single father-figure leader, but one who has total power (the term “dictator” will do, though having an Imperial Presidency is fairly faithful to the concept). The State, with this dictator as titular head, tells you that it/he is privy to information not available to the masses and, as a direct result, knows much better than the masses what is really at play in the world, knows what is best for the people. How many times over this past eight years have we heard the phrase “We have secret intelligence that shows heightened activities by…” you name it? “Based on this secret intelligence it is imperative that we now…” take this action (go to war, spy on you, torture people that we [through our secret intelligence] know to be enemy operatives — though they must never stand trial in public because our secret intelligence will be revealed, ad infinitum)?

Do we now have a dictator instead of president? Well, okay: “Dictator” seems such a harsh word; “Imperial President” seems so fuzzy and soft. Why not go with some other more euphemistic name — you know, like “Decider”? Dictators decide what action to take and make it happen, and nobody can stop him/her from doing it. Like domestic spying (nothing happens, even though it is a felony at the time it takes place). Like torture (which is a crime, well, just about everywhere more enlightened people rule). Allow oil companies to create our energy policies in closed door sessions ( civil crimes of conflict of interest and flaunting the Public Records Act). Turning the Department of Justice into a one-party kangaroo court. And, as a final nail if it goes through, the Secretary Paulsen presented bailout plan (surely at least partly penned by David Addington), there is the power-grab clause 8a which tells Congress that is has no active part in handling the nation’s purse strings, and tells the Judicial branch it has no power over executive office decisions.

---------------------------------------------------------------

I'M THE DECIDER
(Koo-Koo-Ka-Choo)


I am me and Rummy's he, Iraq is free and we are all together
See the world run when Dick shoots his gun, see how I lie
I'm Lying...

Sitting on my own brain, waiting for the end of days
Corporation profits, Bloody oil money
I'm above the law and I'll decide what's right or wrong


I am the egg head, I'm the Commander, I'm the Decider
Koo-Koo-Kachoo

Baghdad city policeman sitting pretty little targets in a row
See how they die when the shrapnel flies see mothers cry
I'm Lying...I'm Ly-ing...I'm Lying...I'm Ly-ing

Yellow cake uranium, imaginary WMD's
Declassifying facts, exposing secret agents
Tax cuts for the wealthy leaving all the poor behind

CHORUS

Sitting in the White house garden talking to the Lord
My thoughts would be busy busy hatching If I only had a brain

CHORUS
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Re: Ship of Fools - the Death of the Republicans

Postby jackspratt » November 26, 2008, 10:23 am

LoveDaBlues wrote:”

I'M THE DECIDER
(Koo-Koo-Ka-Choo)


I am me and Rummy's he, Iraq is free and we are all together
See the world run when Dick shoots his gun, see how I lie
I'm Lying...

Sitting on my own brain, waiting for the end of days
Corporation profits, Bloody oil money
I'm above the law and I'll decide what's right or wrong


I am the egg head, I'm the Commander, I'm the Decider
Koo-Koo-Kachoo

Baghdad city policeman sitting pretty little targets in a row
See how they die when the shrapnel flies see mothers cry
I'm Lying...I'm Ly-ing...I'm Lying...I'm Ly-ing

Yellow cake uranium, imaginary WMD's
Declassifying facts, exposing secret agents
Tax cuts for the wealthy leaving all the poor behind

CHORUS

Sitting in the White house garden talking to the Lord
My thoughts would be busy busy hatching If I only had a brain

CHORUS


Here http://decider.cf.huffingtonpost.com/ if you want to listen :D
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Re: Ship of Fools - the Death of the Republicans

Postby aznyron » November 26, 2008, 10:24 am

well we have two races for the Senate one in MI & one in GA if the Democrats win both seats it will be 60 D. in the Senate and a filibuster proof Senate [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o<
the Democrats win both seats then maybe some thing will get accomplished in Washington good or bad
only time will tell and if the D. screw up they will be thrown out just like the R. were
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