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JimboPSM
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Post by JimboPSM » September 18, 2011, 12:02 pm

In general I have to say that I agree with most of the reservations and criticisms mentioned above.

However, as there are an ever increasing number of businesses that offer additional discounts for being ”liked” there does appear to be a sound financial case for creating and maintaining a “minimalist” Facebook page.

It can certainly be a good way for families and friends to keep in contact.

At the end of the day it should always be remembered that everything on the internet can be accessed by anybody with the technological capability - this could include your government, techno geeks, employers, anyone who may dislike you and most five year old kids :shock:


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Post by lee » September 18, 2011, 12:14 pm

I think Facebook is a great tool for keeping in touch with friends and family when you're away from home, however I think there is a lot of time wasting rubbish on there. I never bother with all the apps and games, any new app that is sent my way is zapped straight away.

I limit the amount of private info I share so I'm not too concerned about security. There are quite a lot of people who are not so bothered about it and I'm amazed at the amount of stuff people share online.

Facebook is also useful for businesses to update their customers with what's going on at their business, it saves having to send out newsletters which most people bin.

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Post by Librarian » September 18, 2011, 1:32 pm

i am trying to understand some others point of view.. even if i do not agree entirely

some are saying it is unwise, unsafe, etc etc , to post information on social media sites like facebook.

they are saying it is unsafe to post on sites like facebook , but expressing there opinion by using web forums like Udon Map to do so
Udon Map requires a minimal amount of information to post .. ie email addresses etc etc

so if i understand correctly, posting on web forums like udon map , where there are no privacy tools to restrict who can read what... is ok ... but posting on facebook , with a massive amount of privacy and restriction tools is not ok..

there is no logic that makes sense to me in these statements , apart from an argumentitive / unreasoned point of view , voiced without serious thought.

does this not sound a bit hypocritical ? well it does to me , but we are all entitled to our opinions and fair discussions are interesting

Librarian

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Post by jackspratt » September 18, 2011, 1:49 pm

Librarian, one (in my view, major) difference you may want to consider is that people normally run a Facebook account under their real name, whereas very few do so on UdonMap, or similar forums.

Makes plenty of sense to me.

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Post by Librarian » September 18, 2011, 2:18 pm

ok Jack

for example.. by a simple click of your user name .. it has you as living in bang dung , and retired .. maybe that is false , maybe that is true . i have never met you i think ... but i imagine you probably do live in bang dung , you probably are retired and you may even be called Jack

the point i am trying to make.. which wasnt directed at you in particular by the way.. is how can people say for example , facebook is unsafe and evil etc etc

and yet use sites such as these on a regular basis , to give or obtain information , and each time giving a little bit away of them selves

i used the word hypocritical
1.
a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2.
a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, especially one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

because that is how i see it.. i am not asking for you to agree or disagree with my view .. i am merely voicing my opinion , in the same way that you voice yours

you started this thread on the 16th at 8.46pm .. and invited opinions of others .

on the 17th i put a link on a thread i started, to a photo set hosted on facebook.. because i am an obvious user of facebook i felt obliged to voice my opinion ( which seems in the minority ! ) on the benefits of sites such as these.

whilst i agree people abuse these sites , there are a great many who use them for the purpose they were intended. social networking.

i think in general , people who use the internet, should and do realise that what you say today , is here forever.. and as long as you post in a polite , respectful , reasoned and logical way , you have no fear of what the future may hold

have a peaceful Sunday afternoon .. on the lake ;)

Librarian

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Post by jackspratt » September 18, 2011, 2:37 pm

Librarian wrote: you started this thread on the 16th at 8.46pm .. and invited opinions of others .
I didn't actually start the thread - but that is another story.

Enjoy your afternoon. :D

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Post by randerson79 » September 18, 2011, 2:44 pm

KHONDAHM wrote:Do I have accounts? Unfortunately, yes. However, each and every one (including this one) contains false information and different email addresses. Even "real" pictures of me I send to people I meet online are fake - pulled from somone else's profile somewhere. Good luck to anyone with sinister intentions harming me or mine. =;

Are you sure none of the photos you posted here don't have location tags attached? :shock:

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Post by stattointhailand » September 18, 2011, 4:04 pm

Jeremy, I don't think I would have used the word hypocritical ...... bloomin' PARNOID more like

Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion.

Reckon there must be some folk on 'ere with mighty dodgy past lives :-"

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Post by lee » September 18, 2011, 5:05 pm

Librarian wrote:Udon Map requires a minimal amount of information to post .. ie email addresses etc etc

so if i understand correctly, posting on web forums like udon map , where there are no privacy tools to restrict who can read what... is ok ... but posting on facebook , with a massive amount of privacy and restriction tools is not ok..
personal email addresses are hidden on UdonMap and all other private data e.g. D.O.B, location etc is entirely optional.

Facebook has more in-depth profile information if you choose to show it, you can view peoples family trees, friends, work places, geo tagging etc. This sort of info is not available on this forum.

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Post by Librarian » September 18, 2011, 5:39 pm

yes lee , i agree entirely with what you say,

my posts were not intended to dig out anyone, merely point out , even with a web forum such as this, *some* personal and distinguishing information is required ( even if it is not made public )

the point being , even with Udon Map , to gain access and post , a simple thing like a *real email address * is required to register. real email addresses can divulge quite a bit of information if you know how to look.. posters general locations (using ip addresses) are quite easy to find out if you are a little technically minded .

using Udon Map as an analogy to reason through my point of view

the topic is about FaceBook and social media sites, and the impact , posting information may have now and in the future.

i was offering perhaps another train of thought, for those that think facebook is *the devils work* and merely pointing out that , to my mind , to say FB is not good to post on , but UM is , is hypocritical. hypocritical may be too harsh a word to use in a friendly point of view exchange

it is very easy to read through topics on here , but not bother to add input to this community forum

as i said before, because i recently posted a link to photographs hosted on FB, i wanted to voice my opinion because it differs from what many here have written.

in fact , as a business tool , just by reading and thinking about this topic , has made me realise i dont need to have a new website built just yet.. i can create a new page on a new FB account ,

as a side note.. since i posted photos , i have received quite a few new friend invitations ..nothing personal guys but i dont accept freely , such invites.. i use my facebook account to update my family and close friends about whats going on.

when i set the new page up for the business, i will gladly accept all things business and customer related

Jeremy

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Post by jimboLV » September 18, 2011, 6:40 pm

I joined facebook within the past year at the urging of some of my far flung friends. Somewhat reluctantly, as I had heard the scare mongering stories about how this was somehow an invasion of your privacy. So I checked it out and determined this is rubbish, with all the controls about who sees your info, etc., besides the fact that you alone determine what you post. I can't imagine anyone with skeletons in their closet would post that info or put it in writing anywhere. For example I would never admit on facebook that I was the one that, 60 years ago, threw the snowball through the window of the nuns' convent in the dead of night. Oops! I just did. So can I expect a visit from Sister Mary of the Blessed Shroud with a bill for the repairs?

I find it is a good way to share pics, videos and status with many people, and beats writing scads of emails with endless attachments. I have connected with people that I haven't heard from in 60 years and it's interesting to see how they have (or haven't) turned out. For those who say that old people don't go on facebook, I found a group of people who grew up in our neighborhood in the 1950's and the group currently numbers over 160 active members from just a small neighborhood in Philly. And I doubt if any of them are under 65 years old. So some of you need to adjust the paradigm of old people being incapable of being technologically capable.

I don't care if they can trace my address and find out where I live. I can assure anyone who is here on a visa, that information and a lot more is already available, unless you are here on a witness protection program and have a super clean new identity. If anyone, be it LEA, IRS, bill collectors, ex-wives etc. want to find you they can, and they don't have to bother with facebook (or these forums) to find you - - if they want. The days of anonymity are over.

I tend to agree with statto, the correct word is paranoia. Although I must say that since joining facebook I notice a lot fewer black helicopters hovering over my house, and those guys in black suits with sunglasses have quit going through my trash. Could it be that they are getting what they need from facebook?

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Post by stattointhailand » September 18, 2011, 7:14 pm

About 2 years ago (just prior to y daughter being born) I realised that, due to the fact that I had come to Thailand several years ago with 1 suitcase and the allowed 25kg luggage, I only had about a dozen photo's of my family members from back home. If I were to "croak" fairly quickly, my daughter would not have any info about her European family. I descided to research my family tree on the net to give her some info and also as a bit of fun for myself.
At present my family tree contains 4577 people, I have 491 photo's and 54 stories (newspaper articles etc).
I have 2685 records attached to my tree varying from Birth, marriage & death certificates, baptism certificates, army records showing several different members of the family contracted syphilis during the first world war, and that one member deserted. Departure and arrival records for sailings to and from UK/US/Aus/SA etc, job application forms, Wills and Probate records showing how much money was left by who and to whom, School records, phone book info, and also info from the various census conducted in UK and worldwide. I have also managed to trace several family members US passport application forms complete with pictures and usual passport info ....... etc etc

NOT ONE PIECE OF INFO ON MY TREE WAS AQUIRED THROUGH FACEBOOK

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Post by KHONDAHM » September 18, 2011, 7:29 pm

@randerson79 - Absolutely sure. Go ahead and check. Location is always set to off on my phone and every pic I post is cropped in an image editor and pasted/saved to a new image.

Now, that is not to say that there is no identifying information at all there. Since at least almost the past decade, every image file has a "fingerprint" embedded in it which would allow law enforcement or others so inclined to trace the image to the device which created it and from there, identify the operating system and hardware which created it. From there, who created it is an easy next step. Or even easier, law enforcement can simply access your device remotely and surreptitiously turn on your camera and microphone or rummage through all your files. It's all completely legal thanks to the Patriot Act and the fine print of many the licensing agreements you agree to when you use most software.

Americans should read the Declaration of Independence and then read the Patriot Act. It's quite a chilling contrast between what was intended and what we have become. Pretty much full-circle. It may not bother the sheeple who acquiesce bit by bit, but it sure as hell bothers me and others concerned with the erosion of our American values, spirit, and way of life.

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Post by jackspratt » September 18, 2011, 7:30 pm

stattointhailand wrote: NOT ONE PIECE OF INFO ON MY TREE WAS AQUIRED THROUGH FACEBOOK
Seems you agree then statto - Facebook is redundant. =D> :D

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Post by JimboPSM » September 18, 2011, 8:07 pm

jackspratt wrote:
stattointhailand wrote: NOT ONE PIECE OF INFO ON MY TREE WAS AQUIRED THROUGH FACEBOOK
Seems you agree then statto - Facebook is redundant. =D> :D
While it may be redundant, it is now estimated that a Facebook IPO could be at a value of over 100 Billion USD :yikes:
I find it hard to conceive of where the revenue would come from to justify such a valuation - and, even if the revenue was there to justify it, which businesses would be the ones that would be losing much of their revenue (and jobs) to Facebook :-k

While a Facebook IPO would certainly be good for struggling investment banks, it is difficult to see it translating into being any kind of net (pun intended) job creator :(
Ashamed to be English since 23rd June 2016 when England voted for racism & economic suicide.

Disgusted that the UK is “governed” by a squalid bunch of economically illiterate, self-serving, sleazy and corrupt neo-fascists.

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Post by stattointhailand » September 18, 2011, 8:11 pm

While it may be redundant, it is now estimated that a Facebook IPO could be at a value of over 100 Billion USD :yikes:

What's that in REAL money ..... about B200?

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Post by Jello » September 18, 2011, 9:11 pm

Librarian wrote:the point i am trying to make.. which wasnt directed at you in particular by the way.. is how can people say for example , facebook is unsafe and evil etc etc

and yet use sites such as these on a regular basis , to give or obtain information , and each time giving a little bit away of them selves
Librarian
and each time giving a little bit away of them selves

And that is what some people are overlooking. KD, who wouldn't dream of opening a facebook account
has posted on UM over 1,000 times. If one was so inclined to read all of his posts, a fair profile could
be made on him using the bits of information he posts.
Some assumptions could also be made about what valuables he may have and a general idea of where
he lives, assisted by the photos he has posted on his profile to narrow his location down
(assuming those shots were taken from inside his house).

My apologies for singling you out KD, but its a good example of why we should be careful about
the content of what we put on the WWW rather than what services we use.

Image
"big brother" can find you without the help of facebook. :(

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Post by lee » September 19, 2011, 10:32 am

Librarian wrote:in fact , as a business tool , just by reading and thinking about this topic , has made me realise i dont need to have a new website built just yet.. i can create a new page on a new FB account
I would do both at the same time if I were you Jeremy. Websites are more important than a facebook page IMO.

The business website is, at least in the foreseeable future, going to be relevant. Someone who is searching for books in Udon is less likely to search Facebook for “books udon thani.” But rather they are heading to Google or Bing. Ultimately finding thebookhouseandcoffeeshop.com in position #3. And until Facebook can figure out a way to SEO their entire structure of pages. This will always be the case.

If I were you I'd build a new website first and integrate facebook into it. When visitors find your page via Google or UdonMap they can then use your facebook facility.

The following article is worth a read if you're thinking of a facebook only approach: http://www.imediaconnection.com/content/28496.asp
Jello wrote:but its a good example of why we should be careful about the content of what we put on the WWW rather than what services we use.
That's a fair enough point Jello.

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Post by KHONDAHM » September 19, 2011, 11:23 am

Comparing what can be gleaned from this site versus Facebook and other highly ubiquitous sites which cross-integrate is a reeeeeeeeeeeeal stretch. Taking a position that criticism somehow should equate to that person taking a purist approach (ie not post anything anywhere) or somehow indicates hypocrisy is just plain [I'll be nice] and an overreach/overreaction. Sort of like saying someone who criticizes riding a motorbike should therefore never rollerblade. It's just plain [I'll be nice].

I'll save everyone the trouble and summarize a profile of my postings here (as if it matters):

I love my family, family issues, debating, helping, world politics (especially US), economic issues, law, playing devil's advocate, and fact checking. I strongly dislike Republicans (the politics and propaganda - not the person/people), revisionism, stupid fellow Americans, and pedophiles (in that order - lol). I am a passive atheist, technical, analytical, blunt, and drive a samlor.

I allegedly have a trillion or so gold bars stuffed up my [being nice] at any given moment which sometimes makes me seem anal (understandably, so). I don't drink alcohol or participate in most vices. I'm FCKIN AMERICAN BEEYOTCH! (not even making an attempt to be nice) no hyphen and no apologies! WOOT!

I try not to read or comment on threads which have nothing to do with the aforementioned interests and dislikes (still haven't managed to read OT's "Thinking" thread - maybe someday). ;)

I think that just about sums it up. May be a few odds and ends and minor details here and there. Having said all that and to directly address some of the comments made about supposed hypocrisy in posting here:

Who are my friends and family and where are they? You don't know.
Where did I go to school and what is my occupation? You don't know.
What have I been doing recently? You don't know.
Where am I now? You don't know. Even if you could check my IP, I go through VPNs so often you may or may not know approximately where I am.

Now, if this were Facebook, you could probably answer each and every one of those questions and much, much more. Facebook is evil. A kid became a gazillionaire selling your info. To my knowledge, this site can be mined, but it's members have not been directly monetized (to my knowledge) and members have not yet lost control of what is made available about them.

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Post by Librarian » September 19, 2011, 11:59 am

KD ,
i know a guy who at around 50 years old has never owned a phone.. mobile or landline .. never uses a computer ( wouldnt know how ! ) and doesnt like TV .. i think the gist of his thinking is that he feels all of aforementioned are a type of invasion of his privacy .. if he wants human communication , he will do it face to face , on his terms and times of his choosing.

an analogy to me .. would be like him saying he,s a vegetarian and he doesnt eat meat .. full stop

another analogy , to me , regarding some of the comments here are like people saying i,m a vegetarian , i only eat chicken !!!

as a person who professes to enjoy debating , i,m rather surprised that because you dont agree with others viewpoints , you describe them as (something not nice here )

surely the very art of debate, is to offer others who have fixed opinions , an alternative viewpoint to consider and reason through?

i,m a vegetarian kinda guy .. if i dont eat meat , i dont eat meat period.

i think what it ultimately comes down to , is whatever internet based media being used , whether it be FB or Web Forums is the amount of information you disclose about yourself ,

in your opinion , you give *from the soul * comments about your thoughts and feelings regarding topics that interest you without divulging too much personal information about yourself .. and you say this is ok

and yet others , who dont give too much *soulful writings* but prefer to do it another way using pictures and images are (insert profannity here )

freedom of speech my friend.. allowing others the right to express opinions without censorship or restraint :D

Librarian

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