Solar energy Incentive

Information on building a house, buying poperty and land, and all other general contruction topics...
Post Reply
User avatar
rjj04
udonmap.com
Posts: 1156
Joined: February 25, 2008, 2:51 am

Solar energy Incentive

Post by rjj04 » April 3, 2014, 12:42 am

Just had a storm pass through over the last hour or so. Having had three power outages (the worst one was a couple of hours) in the last few weeks, I now just disconnect the valuable/sensitive devices from the grid at the beginning of the storm. I connect my battery array to the little inverter and I can keep a couple of LED lights, a fan, a router, and my notebook computer running whilst we ride out the storm. If the power goes out, it is not much of an event now. I am very happy to have installed this "el cheapo" backup system.



User avatar
ajsp9
udonmap.com
Posts: 417
Joined: January 10, 2009, 9:43 pm
Location: Bristol, England

Solar energy Incentive

Post by ajsp9 » April 3, 2014, 5:48 am

Myself and my partner have a solar panel company in England so have watched this thread with interest .

Seems to me you need a regular supplier of both panels and inverters , so please PM me. I have udon based contacts and my wife's family are from Udon.

User avatar
maaka
udonmap.com
Posts: 3315
Joined: October 9, 2007, 6:03 am

Solar energy Incentive

Post by maaka » April 3, 2014, 10:00 am

wonderful ajsp9..
the wee woman has a house on the build, and I am a solar power user in NZ since 1996, so I will be setting her up with a small probably 12v standby system in Udon maybe next year...couple of panels, inverter or charge controller, and a 109ah battery, afew lights, water pump, float switch..so you might save me lugging it all from NZ..but I do like the Outback Inverter's, but pricey..we will see

glalt
udonmap.com
Posts: 2985
Joined: January 14, 2007, 10:35 am
Location: Nong Hin, Loei

Solar energy Incentive

Post by glalt » April 4, 2014, 11:02 am

I'm still learning about solar electric systems. The Internet is both a blessing and a curse. Lots of contradictory information. I have spent countless hours researching every aspect of solar systems. After losing a couple of computers and UPS units to lightning, power spikes and low voltage, I decided that I wanted to have my computer totally isolated from the grid. At this point, my computer room is 100 percent off grid. The home system is small and only powers my computer, printer, lights and a small fan. Three 65 AH sealed deep cycle batteries powered by two solar panels, one a 310 watt mono and the other a 275 watt poly. The panels are connected in parallel. They work just fine together.

Many have said that the inverter is the heart of the system. I disagree. I think the most important component is the charge controller. I had to make the choice of a $15 pulse wave or a $120 MPPT. My 20 amp MPPT controller gets the most out of the solar panels. I have an EP solar MPPT and am impressed with it. The voltage and amps coming out of the solar panels are 35 volts and 7.4 amps. Coming out of the charge controller I have 13.3 volts and 17.5 amps. It is hazy today and I am getting 256 watts. You can't use the 35 volts from the panels to charge your battery bank so I think that using a cheap controller is wasting a lot of energy.

Now for the inverter. I am convinced that buying a pure sine wave inverter costs a little more money but it is money well spent. Many electrical devices don't like modified sine wave dirty electricity. After reading all the hype about the big name brand inverters, I decided to buy a good one. After reading all the specifications, I changed my mind and opted to buy a cheap no name inverter. The name brand inverters cost many times more than the cheapies. Looking at a 500 watt name brand that cost $800 with a 5 year warranty and comparing it to a $135 600 watt cheapy with a one year warranty I bought the cheapy. The cheap inverter has now been running for 8 months with no problems. Since the cheapy may not last long, ?? I have a spare.

After I got my home system running to suit myself, I built a second system for the off grid farm. Two 280 watt cheap poly panels, a 40 amp MPPT EP solar charge controller and a cheap 800 watt inverter. I use two FB deep cycle 125 AH flooded batteries. It was connect and forget so far. My wife's nephew has been staying there nights. He uses a fan, lights and watches TV with a satellite dish. They system will also run an electric drill or a 125 watt water pump with no problems. Whenever I go over there in the mornings maybe about 10:00 am, the green charge controller light is always flashing telling me the batteries are fully charged. That system is working great.

bluejets
udonmap.com
Posts: 1059
Joined: March 17, 2008, 10:05 am
Location: Australia

Solar energy Incentive

Post by bluejets » April 4, 2014, 6:24 pm

I can't see any problem using your "dirty" inverter.

Many will say one must use a good inverter supply with computers but I cannot see the reasoning behind it given the way the computer switch mode power supply operates.

Put simply,firstly the 100 to 240vac input is converted to approx. 300V DC inside the switchmode supply unit. Most will then generate a high frequency wave about 400hz I think, which then is transformed into the various voltage levels needed (AC) and then rectified for the motherboard. Reason overall to go through this process is to mainly miniaturise the transformer and therefore overall size of the power unit.

So if the incoming supply is a bit "noisy or dirty" I fail to see any real problem given it is filtered and rectified in the first stage of the power unit anyhow.

Disadvantage is they run rather hot so components such as electrolytic capacitors tend to have shorter life span. Then again, most things are throw-away these days after 5 years or so.

glalt
udonmap.com
Posts: 2985
Joined: January 14, 2007, 10:35 am
Location: Nong Hin, Loei

Solar energy Incentive

Post by glalt » April 4, 2014, 6:48 pm

I still have a small UPS modified sine wave inverter. One of the fans I still use is AC. It buzzes like crazy when powered with the UPS and goes very quiet when back on the mains or the pure sine wave inverter. That dirty electricity has to be very hard on electric motors.

As far as my computer, you're right, I can't tell any obvious difference. Inverter manufactures warn about using modified sine wave and say they will shorten the life of many different AC appliances and computers.

glalt
udonmap.com
Posts: 2985
Joined: January 14, 2007, 10:35 am
Location: Nong Hin, Loei

Solar energy Incentive

Post by glalt » April 4, 2014, 7:05 pm

Pure sine wave versus modified sine wave, short video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dWG5SeMD-8

User avatar
rjj04
udonmap.com
Posts: 1156
Joined: February 25, 2008, 2:51 am

Solar energy Incentive

Post by rjj04 » April 4, 2014, 7:20 pm

The only reason to buy a MSW is the Watts/$ is much higher. If you look at the devices in your home that use the most Watts (not necessarily Watt hrs), they are resistive appliances. I just bought a 6KW shower heater for my new home. If I wanted to be able to use that when not connected to the grid I'd need an even larger inverter (considering I would not want every other activity in the house to stop because somebody was taking a shower). So, what to do. I have decided to break out the circuit breaker panel to be able to take advantage of that MSW Watt/$ advantage. The ability to feed the resistive appliances with MSW inverter(s), whilst sensitive appliances are fed by a PSW inverter. The circuit breaker panel is going to be a bit complicated for the uninitiated, but it should give me a much cheaper system, that will not require the family (or computer) to watch every watt that they use whilst on backup-power.

glalt
udonmap.com
Posts: 2985
Joined: January 14, 2007, 10:35 am
Location: Nong Hin, Loei

Solar energy Incentive

Post by glalt » April 5, 2014, 11:31 am

I really wanted to go with solar hot water. Siam Green Power has what looks like a good system but the 70,000 baht price choked me up. Do you know anyone who is using an LPG heater?

http://www.siam.led-gpi.com/solarpower/ ... ating.html

bluejets
udonmap.com
Posts: 1059
Joined: March 17, 2008, 10:05 am
Location: Australia

Solar energy Incentive

Post by bluejets » April 5, 2014, 1:01 pm

I'm looking at a "conversion kit".
Uses solar tubes which have some advantages.
Connects into an existing mains pressure (about 40psi) hot water system.
There are other systems also.............about $1600.00 here in Aus.(48,000 Baht)
Maybe something similar you can get there in Thailand.

http://www.solaroz.com.au/solarhotwater_products.html

User avatar
rjj04
udonmap.com
Posts: 1156
Joined: February 25, 2008, 2:51 am

Solar energy Incentive

Post by rjj04 » April 5, 2014, 1:20 pm

I did a comparison between solar thermal hot water and using solar PV for hot water. The conclusion I came to was that, with the massive drop in PV prices, it was better to buy extra PV (panel/inverter). The kicker for me was that we don't use a lot of hot water, in terms of total volume. In the summer we don't need much at all, in the winter we kick up the power for the electric hot water heater for the shower. If you have PV, you can use the PV for A/C during the summer, when you don't need so much hot water, and for the electric hot water heater during the winter, when you don't need the A/C. Let's face it, this time of year the water temperature out of a tank on your roof will probably suffice for a shower.

70,000 for a solar hot water heater system is getting up near the 85,000 for a 3KW grid-tie PV system (less racking and wiring). Perhaps if you are a big user of hot water... for laundry, dish washing, swimming pool, hot bath, etc... then probably the solar thermal hot water makes sense. My better half seems to have zero interest in using hot water for cleaning dishes, something I always thought was useful when I "used to" do dishes :razz:

LPG is certainly a good option, once again, if you use a lot of hot water throughout the house.

Just my thoughts.

glalt
udonmap.com
Posts: 2985
Joined: January 14, 2007, 10:35 am
Location: Nong Hin, Loei

Solar energy Incentive

Post by glalt » April 5, 2014, 3:45 pm

bluejets wrote:I'm looking at a "conversion kit".
Uses solar tubes which have some advantages.
Connects into an existing mains pressure (about 40psi) hot water system.
There are other systems also.............about $1600.00 here in Aus.(48,000 Baht)
Maybe something similar you can get there in Thailand.

http://www.solaroz.com.au/solarhotwater_products.html

Thanks for the information. I'm in no hurry for sure but I am going to look for an LPG tank type heater. That way I have the option to add a solar collector and the small circulation pump. It depends on how much LPG that unit will use. I have never had a tank type heater here but those electric units available in the USA are very well insulated will keep the water hot for several days.

The electric company in Ohio used to give you a free electric heater if you agreed to let them install a little radio unit that shut off the power to the heater during peak electric usage. Naturally I went for that deal and I would never have known that radio device was installed.

bluejets
udonmap.com
Posts: 1059
Joined: March 17, 2008, 10:05 am
Location: Australia

Solar energy Incentive

Post by bluejets » April 5, 2014, 6:32 pm

Any LPG units I ever seen seem to pump a hell-of-a-lota hot air out the top.
Personally I could never see where the efficiency they claim comes from.
Maybe if the cost of gas versus electric per unit of heat energy was extremely low then some comparison of cost could be used. Other than that I'm at a loss to see it.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/4006659 ... e&lpid=107

glalt
udonmap.com
Posts: 2985
Joined: January 14, 2007, 10:35 am
Location: Nong Hin, Loei

Solar energy Incentive

Post by glalt » April 6, 2014, 12:19 pm

I'm not sure that I could trust the LPG shower units. I could put a tank type right outside the bath room wall and feel safer. The goal is to eliminate any electrical device that needs a lot of electricity.

glalt
udonmap.com
Posts: 2985
Joined: January 14, 2007, 10:35 am
Location: Nong Hin, Loei

Solar energy Incentive

Post by glalt » April 10, 2014, 10:20 am

In order to take full advantage of what power my solar panels produce, I have ordered a small grid tie inverter for the house. I will install it with a double pole double throw switch. When I am away from home the switch will put all the energy into the grid. When I am home, I will still run my computer room off the battery bank. When the battery bank is fully charged, I will move the switch back to feed the grid. I paid a premium for the inverter because it is the most efficient one I found at 92 percent.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/500W-sol ... 56486.html

User avatar
Aardvark
udonmap.com
Posts: 5837
Joined: March 5, 2007, 9:08 am
Location: Perth Australia and Udon

Solar energy Incentive

Post by Aardvark » April 10, 2014, 12:08 pm

For anyone who may be Interested .... http://paid.outbrain.com/network/redir? ... =507868376

User avatar
rjj04
udonmap.com
Posts: 1156
Joined: February 25, 2008, 2:51 am

Solar energy Incentive

Post by rjj04 » April 10, 2014, 8:59 pm

glalt wrote:In order to take full advantage of what power my solar panels produce, I have ordered a small grid tie inverter for the house. I will install it with a double pole double throw switch. When I am away from home the switch will put all the energy into the grid. When I am home, I will still run my computer room off the battery bank. When the battery bank is fully charged, I will move the switch back to feed the grid. I paid a premium for the inverter because it is the most efficient one I found at 92 percent.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/500W-sol ... 56486.html
I haven't seen anything about that inverter. Please give us an update when you get it and hook it up. Hopefully it doesn't have any minimum Voc problems like one of the inverters I bought (KaiDeng).

Sounds like your system will start to look like my system. When you are away from home, you will put the solar panel on the GTI. If you are gone for a few days or more, how will you top up your batteries? An AC charger on a timer like I am doing?

glalt
udonmap.com
Posts: 2985
Joined: January 14, 2007, 10:35 am
Location: Nong Hin, Loei

Solar energy Incentive

Post by glalt » April 10, 2014, 10:26 pm

These deep cycle sealed batteries lose their charge VERY slowly. I don't think it will be a problem. If they should need a charge, I do have an automatic charger that works very well with stepped charging. I'll be going down to Jomtien early next month for ten days or longer and will find out for sure how much charge they lose.

User avatar
rjj04
udonmap.com
Posts: 1156
Joined: February 25, 2008, 2:51 am

Solar energy Incentive

Post by rjj04 » April 11, 2014, 6:15 am

Actually that inverter looks more like a relabled SUN 500G

http://www.ebay.com/itm/500w-grid-tie-i ... 3a7835c9b6

which, according to the CE certificate, is a relabled KaiDeng. A different model than the KD I have though. A lot of folks in the USA have those. A few videos on how to debug and repair them on youtube.

glalt
udonmap.com
Posts: 2985
Joined: January 14, 2007, 10:35 am
Location: Nong Hin, Loei

Solar energy Incentive

Post by glalt » April 11, 2014, 8:49 am

I suspect that many of the inverters actually come out of the same Chinese factory. They put whatever label on them that they want. One thing that got my attention was the inverter weight is supposed to be 4 KG. That's about double what the others weigh. When I get that inverter the first thing I do will be to verify the weight. Emails to the company I bought it from promised that the efficiency was 92 percent. That will be checked carefully also. I'll let you know what I find.

Post Reply

Return to “House & Land”