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The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less

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The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less

Postby arjay » July 1, 2010, 7:36 pm

The Best Stimulus, - spend less, borrow less?

Or should it be can Obama learn from Thatcher?

http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/25/news/ec ... /index.htm
The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less
By Shawn Tully, senior editor at largeJune 25, 2010: 4:51 PM ET

FORTUNE -- Of all the highlights of Allan Meltzer's half-century as a distinguished monetarist -- advising Presidents Kennedy and Reagan, producing celebrated books on John Maynard Keynes and the history of the Federal Reserve -- none proved more memorable than a crisis session at 10 Downing Street in mid-1980.

A group of 346 noted economists had just written a scathing open letter to Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, predicting that her tough fiscal policies would "deepen the depression, erode the industrial base, and threaten social stability." Thatcher wanted to make absolutely certain her unpopular attack on huge deficits and rampant spending, in the face of high unemployment and a weak economy, was the right one.

So Thatcher summoned Meltzer, along with a group of trusted advisors, to explain why the experts were wrong. Even leaders of her own party advised Thatcher to make what they called a 'U-Turn,' and enact a big spending program to pull Britain out of recession. "Our job was to explain why lower deficits and spending discipline were the key to recovery," recalls Meltzer.

Thatcher was regally unamused by arcane jargon. "Being right on the economics wasn't enough," intones Meltzer. "She made it clear that our job was to explain it so she could understand it. If we didn't, she made it clear we were wasting her time. She'd say, 'You're not telling me what I need to know.'"

Thatcher stuck with draconian policies, invoking the battle chant "The Lady's Not for Turning." She launched Britain on years of balanced budgets, modest spending increases, falling joblessness, and extraordinary economic growth.


Misunderstanding Keynes

For Meltzer, the courageous, damn-the-sages stance that Thatcher took three decades ago should guide President Obama today. "If Obama announced a strategy to deal with the long-term debt and stopped doing things to increase the uncertainty that businesses face, it would do a great deal to stimulate the economy," declares the 82-year old Meltzer.

Meltzer is right, and most of the "experts" -- from Paul Krugman to Ben Bernanke -- are wrong. The best stimulus is a solid, credible plan to radically reduce government spending, starting right now.

....which is what the Uk government is doing now.
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Re: The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less

Postby Texpat » July 1, 2010, 7:48 pm

Better? spend less, borrow none.
Why are so many westerners such fiscal imbeciles? (not finger-pointing)
Flash back to what everyone's mommas taught them.
If you want something, save up until you have enough.
Why is this so hard to digest?
Debt is the devil.
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Re: The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less

Postby Farang1 » July 2, 2010, 2:45 am

President Post Turtle (Or, the ones pulling his strings.) is working on collapsing the US economy, along with it, a multitude of other nations. Look at all the trillions of dollars that has been paid out in bailouts. Only making the rich richer. The Obamacare, which has nothing to do with health care but, government control. The oil spill in the gulf that, if he had allowed the help from the other nations from the gitgo, the oil would have been contained and not of reached the beaches and destroyed the economies of the gulf States.

Once the economies have collapsed, they can step up and say, “We need central world government and economy. The internet will tie everything together. All we need to do is issue everyone their own ID number on a RFID chip that will be implanted in each person without which, you will not be able to work or do any business.

When you go to work, you will walk between sensors that read the RFID. That will clock you in and out at work. You are credited to your bank account the amount of your work’s wages. All the products in the stores will have RFID chips. When you go into the store, you will not have to carry any money with you. Transactions are done with credits. You will walk between the sensors at the store that reads you RFID. You shop around picking up the items you want and walk out. The sensors read your RFID and the RFID in each product and subtracts the amount from your bank account."

IMHO.

This article was written 7 years ago. I can't even fathom the advances they have made since then.

Invented in 1969 and patented in 1973, but only now becoming commercially and technologically viable, RFID tags are essentially microchips, the tinier the better. Some are only 1/3 of a millimeter across. These chips act as transponders (transmitters/responders), always listening for a radio signal sent by transceivers, or RFID readers. When a transponder receives a certain radio query, it responds by transmitting its unique ID code, perhaps a 128-bit number, back to the transceiver. Most RFID tags don't have batteries (How could they? They're 1/3 of a millimeter!). Instead, they are powered by the radio signal that wakes them up and requests an answer.


1/3 of a millimeter is about the size of the period at the end of this sentence.

http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/169
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Re: The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less

Postby WBU ALUM » July 2, 2010, 1:55 pm

Obama has spent more political capital and more economic capital on issues that the federal government has little or no authority with which to be involved, but ignores that which the federal government is required to do (border security, environmental disaster in the Gulf, fiscally sound economic policy, etc.)

My take is that Obama's philosophy is not that of the average working and taxpaying American. He isn't interested in learning anything from anyone else regarding economics. He is doing exactly what he set out to do, and he was purposely vague as to what his "change" entailed -- except for some promises about transparency and taxation. He knew all along that mainstream America would not buy into what he is really selling.
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Re: The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less

Postby NOLA » July 2, 2010, 7:02 pm

Arjay, Texpat, Farang1, WBU ALUM and the rest of you den of fools out there...I see now that you have resolved the Gulf oil spill with your wealth of knowlwdge, you have now embarked upon a plan to resolve the fiscal irresponsibilities of the world governments...And the Master Guru WBU ALUM must have had many secret meetings with Obama, because he can even say with all certainty and I quote "He knew all along that mainstream America would not buy into what he is really selling"...You have a brilliant mind there WBU.
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Re: The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less

Postby WBU ALUM » July 2, 2010, 7:18 pm

NOLA, despite your name-calling once more, I wish to thank you.

You have become a great source of entertainment and hilarity for me and for the friends of mine who visit this forum. We laugh so hard sometimes that we cry, can't finish our meals or almost choke trying to swallow our beers. Due to the danger that poses for us, we now have our "Best of NOLA" discussions before or after our eating and drinking enjoyment.
:lol:

Thank you again.
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Re: The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less

Postby tigerryan » July 2, 2010, 10:38 pm

A good visual of what happens when you carry on as if there is nothing wrong.

Go to yahoo> finance>Asia>Nekki225Chart then click on max(years) have a look at the chart. A terrifing look at what happens when you chose to be well...... I dont know fill in the blank. Just the data.
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Re: The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less

Postby WBU ALUM » July 3, 2010, 8:27 am

As used to be said during the Vietnam War, "there is a disconnect" and "credibility gap" between what the American people are seeing in their economy and what is being said by the White House.

Jobs Report Becomes Latest Sign of Slow Recovery

In the June jobs report, there were 125,000 more people filing for unemployment and 650,000 who left the labor market -- yet unemployment dropped to 9.5%. Bob Brinker, an economist and financial guru, believes that the "real" unemployment number, which would include people who are underemployed and have quit looking altogether is probably around 16.5%. I'd post a link, but his number is in his private newsletter and is not online. Brinker says that economists generally agree that there needs to be a minimum net gain of 100,000 jobs per month for the recovery to be underway. We're 100,000 in the other direction.

The White House keeps saying that the worst is behind us, but then more bad numbers surface that show that isn't true. Both the VP and the Prez have been talking about a "Summer Recovery" in the last few days. Where? For Whom?
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Re: The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less

Postby NOLA » July 3, 2010, 9:34 am

WBU...Thanks for the compliment...I enjoy entertaining the handicapped, as I did when I was a volunteer for the United Way.
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Re: The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less

Postby arjay » July 3, 2010, 2:06 pm

It's good to hear that so many are being so well entertained by so few!! ;) :lol:
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Re: The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less

Postby cookie » July 4, 2010, 10:48 am

Slouching Toward a Double Dip or a Lousy Recovery at Best

Saturday, July 3, 2010

The economy is still in the gravitational pull of the Great Recession and all the booster rockets for getting us beyond it are failing. The odds of a double dip are increasing.

In June the nation added fewer jobs than necessary merely to keep up with population growth (private hiring rose by 83,000 after adding only 33,000 jobs in May). The typical workweek declined. Average earnings dropped. Home sales are down. Retail sales are down. Factory orders in May suffered their biggest tumble since March of last year.



So what are we doing about it? Less than nothing. The states are running an anti-stimulus program (raising taxes, cutting services, laying off teachers, firefighters, police and other employees) that’s now bigger than the federal stimulus program. That federal stimulus is 75 percent gone anyway. And the House and Senate refuse to pass another one. (The Senate left Washington for the July 4th weekend without even extending unemployment benefits for millions of jobless Americans now running out.)

The second booster rocket – the Fed’s rock-bottom short-term interest rates – are having almost no effect. That’s because jobs and wages are so lousy that consumers don’t have enough money to buy much of anything, making small businesses bad credit risks and causing big ones to sit on the huge pile of cash they’ve accumulated.

Wall Street and the other biggest global banks, meanwhile, are making piles of money betting against government debt all over the world. These were the same banks and financiers, remember, that were bailed out by government not long ago. But now they’re demanding fiscal austerity, and politicians are once again doing their bidding – cutting deficits in every rich economy that should now be doing the reverse.

The people who are suffering the most from the failure of public officials and the greed of large bankers are the least able to endure it. Unemployment among people with four-year college degrees is barely over 5 percent; among high-school dropouts it’s over 25 percent. Those who have been jobless the longest or who have left the labor force altogether are men over fifty who are least likely to get back in. Families most in need are losing the services – state-supported Medicaid, child dental care, after-school programs for the kids, public transit – they most depend on.

The irony is that had there been no bank bailout in 2008 and 2009, no large stimulus, and no extraordinary efforts by the Fed to pump trillions of dollars into the economy, we’d have had another Great Depression. And because it would have sucked almost everyone down with it, the nation would have demanded from politicians larger and more fundamental reforms that might well have lifted everyone, and set America and the world on a more sustainable path toward growth and shared prosperity: A stimulus that financed the rebuilding of the nation’s infrastructure and alternative energies, single-payer health care, a cap on the size of big banks and resurrection of Glass-Steagall, earnings insurance, an Earned Income Tax Credit that extended into the middle class, and a truly progressive tax coupled with a price on carbon to pay for all of this over the long term.

No one in their right mind would have wished for another Great Depression, of course. But we seem to have got the worst of all worlds. The bank bailout, the stimulus, and the Fed brought us back from the brink just enough to dampen zeal for anything more. As a result, we are now slouching toward a tepid recovery that could just as well fall into a double dip recession, while a large portion of our population suffers immensely.


http://robertreich.org/
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Re: The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less

Postby WBU ALUM » July 4, 2010, 12:28 pm

First of all, quoting Robert Reich is like quoting Obama. He is socialist -progressive who believes in big government.

The irony is that had there been no bank bailout in 2008 and 2009, no large stimulus, and no extraordinary efforts by the Fed to pump trillions of dollars into the economy, we’d have had another Great Depression.


We'll never really know what would have happened, but I disagree with all bailouts and government takeovers. The stimulus belongs to Obama. All of it. And it has been a failure and waste of money.

And because it would have sucked almost everyone down with it, the nation would have demanded from politicians larger and more fundamental reforms that might well have lifted everyone, and set America and the world on a more sustainable path toward growth and shared prosperity:


Shared prosperity? He really means "social justice". That's really what it's all about in Reich's and Obama's minds. There's no basis in fact for Reich's claims that Americans would have clamored for more. Even when only half of the stimulus was spent, Americans wanted it stopped. They could see that it was a waste of money. Obama has followed the Hoover/FDR model when he should have been following the Constitution and promoting free enterprise.

The Obama agenda, in whole or in part, will be the ruination of free enterprise and liberty in the United States if they are allowed to move forward in their current forms.
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Re: The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less

Postby cookie » July 5, 2010, 9:15 am

WBU ALUM wrote:First of all, quoting Robert Reich is like quoting Obama. He is socialist -progressive who believes in big government.
.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Robert Bernard Reich (pronounced /ˈraɪʃ/; born June 24, 1946) is an American politician, academic, writer, and political commentator. He served as the 22nd United States Secretary of Labor under President Bill Clinton, from 1993 to 1997.

A summa cum laude[1] graduate of Dartmouth College, Reich is currently Professor of Public Policy at the Goldman School of Public Policy at the University of California, Berkeley, a former Harvard University professor and the former Maurice B. Hexter Professor of Social and Economic Policy at the Heller School for Social Policy and Management at Brandeis University.

Reich is an occasional political commentator on programs including Hardball with Chris Matthews, This Week with George Stephanopoulos, CNBC's Kudlow & Company, and NPR's Marketplace. In 2008, Time Magazine named him one of the Ten Most Successful Cabinet Members of the century,[2] and The Wall Street Journal placed him among America's Top Ten Business Thinkers.[3] On November 7, 2008, he was selected by President-elect Barack Obama to be a member of the President-elect's economic transition advisory board.[4]



I am pleased to inform you that I will believe his assessments more than your so called specialized views of the economy and the Stimulus

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less

Postby WBU ALUM » July 5, 2010, 1:55 pm

cookie wrote:I am pleased to inform you that I will believe his assessments more than your so called specialized views of the economy and the Stimulus

And therein lies the major difference between us.

You will hold hold the opinion of an academic and member of the elitist state above even common sense and the voice of the people -- simply because he is an academic and elitist with whom you want to agree.

Please note that Robert Reich has no credentials in business and free enterprise. He is an observer only. He has bounced from university to university and political think tank to political think tank. Is he an intelligent man? Unquestionably, but that doesn't make everything the gospel that falls out of his mouth. Robert Reich discounts the views of the working class. His statement ignores what the American people have said and are still saying about the stimulus. It didn't work. It isn't working. It won't work. Stop spending what's left and quit wasting money.

And by the way, statistics continue to show that the stimulus didn't work and isn't working.
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Re: The best stimulus? Spend less, borrow less

Postby cookie » July 5, 2010, 3:07 pm

WBU ALUM wrote:
You will hold hold the opinion of an academic and member of the elitist state above even common sense and the voice of the people -- simply because he is an academic and elitist with whom you want to agree.


no, common sense tells me that we tried already during thew past 10 years, the kind of economics that you are talking about:
less government, less taxes,...
we have seen the results
an loss of wealth during these years!!!!!!
The only one that got better were the 10% of the richest people,
thew rest lost wealth or stayed status quo during the past 10 years!!!!!
so common sense tells me that what didn't work in the past will not work now
but yeah, that is just common sense,
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