The case against "pled"

If I didn't know better, I would think that some of the respondents here would have everyone believe that english is a pure language, only spoken and written a certain "approved" way, never changing based upon outside influences. The truth is, for the edification of those that don't know better, the English language is a huge caldron of seething influences, anglo, saxon, welsh, pict, frank, germanic, among many others, and I saved the best for last, norman. William the Conquerer and his band of merry men probably were the latest large influence on english (aside from american idiom/pop culture) in 1066. What most people don't realize is that the normans were civilized (yeah,, right) Vikings and they spread their culture and influences far around the known world. The fact that they were in power and set the rules for speech at court as they saw fit set the standard for proper english.

So Gents,,,,,speak with pride in your mother's tongue and don't sweat the small stuff......
As far as I'm concerned,,, there is no correct english, only what passes for current use.
LL

I always kind of assumed to was like the word "read". Pronunciation changes with the tense? I want
to read a book or I read (red) a book? Spelled plead both ways. Ah, grammar rules and the exceptions. Hey, where are the English teachers because I think we need one here.
Still, I often try to utilise British spellings in my posts to humour our friends across the pond.

Morti this is the topic now, so it's not off topic and neither AJ nor RJ have any case to answer there either.

I beg to differ your honour.The said "what the heck is PLED" for-mentioned was stated BEFORE the post was changed from "This is how they treat tourists" to "The case against Pled."
I ask the jury to question the implications here.It would seem the posting here is been manipulated to suit the purpose of getting off Scot free!
The statement "What the heck is PLED" said by the accused, does in no way fall into the category concerning the Post...."This is how they treat tourists"

in the spirit of trying to post something constructive arjay , morti does have a very valid point . and of course i will stand by my first statement . it may come as a shock to some , but english language was never my strong point , however im sure i read somewhere that the only people in britain that actualy still speaks the queens english is in fact the oakney islanders . however whether they use pled or pleaded i cant say . but it aint going to keep me awake at night .

At Oxford We were always taught that a language is a living thing. It is constantly evolving as new words are added to accommodate ever changing circumstances and technologies. Obvious examples are those connected to the computer, hard drive , floppy disc to name just two.So "pled" being added is just another evolutionary step. The origin doesn't matter, whether it's American or Scottish, as most of the language, as has already been pointed out, came from the continents of Europe and the middle east anyway.'Bastardisation" however is not evolutionary. It is the taking of an existing word, maybe changing the spelling slightly, then using it in a completely different context. An example of which, limbs. In its original form means the various bodily attachments known more generally as , arms and legs.In American lingo however it is used to describe the growth from a tree, that we know. are called , branches.
That Mr Arjay is bastardisation. There rests the prosecutions case. I ask for a verdict of guilty and a minimum sentence of three strokes with his own moderators pen.

OXFORD! Truebrit? I lived there! ....Nice place I went to the "Dinky doo nursery school" It was in the grounds of "The dragon school"
But I moved out as there were too many clever clogs there.

mortiboy wrote:OXFORD! Truebrit? I lived there! ....Nice place I went to the "Dinky doo nursery school" It was in the grounds of "The dragon school"
But I moved out as there were too many clever clogs there.

A fine example of the evolutionary process Morti.

Elementary dear watson

LoungLee wrote:The truth is, for the edification of those that don't know better, the English language is a huge caldron of seething influences, anglo, saxon, welsh, pict, frank, germanic, among many others, and I saved the best for last, norman. William the Conquerer and his band of merry men probably were the latest large influence on english (aside from american idiom/pop culture) in 1066. What most people don't realize is that the normans were civilized (yeah,, right) Vikings and they spread their culture and influences far around the known world. The fact that they were in power and set the rules for speech at court as they saw fit set the standard for proper english.

I am fully aware of the above and totally agree. That is fundamental to my point.

The English language did not originate in America. It is a mix of languages imported into England - (long before America had been colonised by the very same Europeans), - a mix of languages imported from other European countries, most particularly the Normans (France). That is why the words in LL post above are spelt civilised, not civilized, realise not realize etc., because they originate from the French language, as I would guess plead does also.

Val the origin of the word isn't Scottish or American.

The regular form won out in England, and pled retreated to Scotland where it became the standard past tense in Scottish law. It then made its way to America, probably through Scottish immigration, where it coexists with pleaded.

The word bastard, from which bastardisation is derived, similarly comes from the same French language. And "bastardisation" is a perfectly appropriate use of that word to describe what some have tried to do to the English language, - a language that has it's roots going back thousands of years.

# bastardization: an act that debases or corrupts
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

# A degradation of a language caused by the passage of time or geographical remoteness
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bastardisation

# bastardised - bastardized: deriving from more than one source or style
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

It is not a case of the language having evolved to embrace "pled". English English language has never adopted the variation "pled". Therefore as a true Englishman I do not use it either.

http://www.wordorigins.org/index.php/index/2002/03/
To plead was originally in the class of verbs, along with read, speed, lead, and feed, that took an irregular past tense and past participle, pled. The irregular form has a history dating back to the 16th century. Competing with this past tense was the regular form pleaded, as in “he pleaded not guilty.” The regular form won out in England, and pled retreated to Scotland where it became the standard past tense in Scottish law. It then made its way to America, probably through Scottish immigration, where it coexists with pleaded.

Beginning in the late-19th century, American grammarians started attacking the irregular form, pled, presumably because it was not in use in England. They were largely successful in legal and journalistic circles and pleaded is the dominant form in America, but pled continues to survive in general US usage and lately is making inroads into the courts and newspapers.

While it’s not strictly improper, pled is rarely used by lawyers and journalists. Using pled in one’s own speech is an indicator that one is not well versed in the law. As such, it should be avoided. (Others would argue the opposite—that being noticed as not being a lawyer would be a good thing.)

Therefore as a true Englishman I do not use it either.

The American's have chosen to adopt their own brand/style/variation, indeed corruption/bastardisation of English, as is their right, - (they too fought for their right to be free), - as long as they don't try and impose it on me, or insist that their's is the right one.

Furthermore I have to say I am both surprised and disappointed at Trubrit, - "Et tu, Brute", - or any other Englishman, selling out on his roots and the Queen's English. Val, I thought you were the Patriotic Englishman. You''ll have to change your username to "NotsoTrubrit"!

For those not keeping proper track on the thread, I cannot be found guilty as the case has already been dismissed.

..And agreed, I won't be using any sleep over the issue.

Should I start a poll on whether or not this thread is way overdue for locking, having well and truly run its course

Or will one of the Mods - probably rj, as he seems to have the most emotional energy tied up in it - take the bull by the horns, and do us all a favour

Why is it when a member finds a subject not to his personal liking it is suggested to close it?I could write pages on the English language, it is after all one of the pleasures of my life, the ability to converse and debate in the finest language in the world. I understand many do not share my enthusiasim but I can't say that some of the other subjects enthrall me very much either, but I just ignore them, not suggest they are closed. But, be what may. Close it, and we can all go back to moaning about being charged 150bht, whilst at the same time paying nearly as much for a bar beer.

Yes, have to agree with you on that one Val. It's been keeping me amused amidst all the routine stuff like baht conspiracies, ATM charges, birthday parties etc most of which were meandering across multiple threads.

The English language has some beautifully descriptive words, - such as "meandering".

See I "snuck" that one in.

Does it really matter its origins are like so many words shrouded in the mists of time and in fact could be attributed to a person who could not spell, basically the word is NOT recognised by the majority of English speakers but it is nice to see its use even if it is America only.
When I first saw it i though it was a mis-spelling of pleb, which we all know, only upon reading it did I commence research four of my five dictionarys shows it usage and origins as not english at all.
oxford concise, longmans cambridge learners and a little known book which i have had for many years ( about 40 to be exact whose title has faded.