The Expat Experience

I was thinking... A dangerous activity for a person of limited intellect like me.

After living on five continents it seems to me that Expats are pulled back and forth between two extremes: Those who want to adapt to their new culture and surroundings...and those who want their new surroundings to adapt to them.

What is the best coarse of action for Expats to a new country? Can we live comfortably and enrich our new community without overrunning the local culture?

Just an issue to provoke thought, not an indictment of either extreme.

Good topic!
Having spent a good part of my life overseas (Air Force) then here, I've seen it all. A few examples:
In Taiwan, gorgious women galore. Yet, some of my AF peers (all in our young 20's back then) pined for a western woman and refused to go downtown. My first trip to Berlin with a veteran of the area: After settling in our hotel rooms, I told him I was ready for a meal. He said, "I'm going to McDonald's. Wanna join me?"

I've seen expats who blend right in with the locals and they're having a good time. In the same town, I've seen expats who can't speak the language, don't eat the food, and are generally critical of the natives. But they'll always say how good life is to them.

My mantra since coming here to live is: To each his own. You want to live in a bamboo hut in the middle of a rice paddy or a mansion in the middle of the city, have a good time. Can't speak or don't want to learn the language, no problem. Can't stand the local food and eat western food for b/l/s each day, that's okay with me too. You leave me alone, I'll leave you alone. (that's a long mantra, but it's basically how I feel). The one exception to how I feel: As an expat, we stick out in local society. When an expat does bad, I feel it's a reflection on the expat community (sort of how the law-abiding muslims may feel in the US/UK after terrorist incidents).

Finally, as for learning the language. I can't speak worth a damn, I read like a first grader, and my listening skills are even worse. But knowing some of the language makes an enormous difference in quality of life for me. If I have a problem with the electric/phone/UBC/bank/car salesman or want to shop for something in the local markets, I can fake my way through most any situation when I'm in control. I'm not one for trying to get my wife to speak for me in these situations.....as western minds/eastern minds don't always see eye to eye on how to question a situation.
That's my 2 satang.

well said and I concur 100% anyone else wish to put in their 10 satangs worth.

Parrot got it right. In addition, I think there is little danger of "over-running" the local culture. My experience is that if the local folks see an opportunity to provide a service, or product for expats and make a few baht by doing so, we benefit as they do. It might be something new to their customs or traditions but has little impact on their daily lives.

Probably a bigger and inevitable impact is the electronic age in which we all live. People all over the world are exposed to new and different things constantly. For better or worse, rapid change is sweeping the planet and will continue to pick up speed.

Your right about the electronic age. So much information available, so much change inevitable.
I yearn for the less materialistic, simpler life of Issan forty years ago. It's not to be found, even in the smallest villages. Well I still have my memories....

"I yearn for the less materialistic, simpler life of Issan forty years ago. It's not to be found, even in the smallest villages. "

I see no reason you couldn't relive that simpler style, if you so choose. If I simply turned off the power, I'd be 90% there (back 40 years), as I'd have no internet, no tv, no water pumps, no ac, no fridge, no telephone. Give my neighbors my truck, and I'd be 100% there! Very easy to do.....but why would you want to do that?
When we built out home in the countryside, no one told us we had to have AC, telephones, western style bathrooms, running water, or an antenna instead of ubc. I've got a fair share of neighbors who live not much differently than my wife's family did 30 years ago....with the exception of color tv, running water, and mobile phones.
Last I checked, none of my neighbors are named "Jones", and that's a relief as I'd have no desire to keep up with them.

You're right, of course, Parrot. I do pick and choose those things that make my life more comfortable. I do manage a simple existence for the most part. I perhaps mis-communicated my yearnings. It was the attitude or mindset that accompanied life forty years ago that I miss.
The "keeping up with the Joneses" and the "I want it all and I want it now" attitude that has accompanied the material progress is what I find discouraging.

"The "keeping up with the Joneses" and the "I want it all and I want it now"

The good thing about those two 'problems' is that they're purely mental. Those needs aren't like when your stomach growls and you need to eat or when you're ill and you need medicine. I re-validate my lifestyle every time I see someone with a high-powered phone in town who uses it solely for phone calls. My 7 year old Nokia can do that!

I think the internet spelled the death-knell for the Thailand we once knew.

30 years ago, finding a non-military farang in Thailand, at least out of Bangkok, was pretty unusual. Now, thanks to the internet, all the loose detritus of the world can show up, and 'get sum o' dem o-ree-n-ull wimmen!', without being able to point to the country on a map.

Dipwads arguing on forums ad infinitum about whether 200 baht is the correct fare from the airport to the Nana Hotel, which bar has the girls with the biggest tits, trading stories about what is safe to eat, etc., has eroded the experience to the lowest common denominator. And I don't think the distinction has been lost on the locals. Clearly, in many places, they are getting fed up, or at least, contemptuous.

People who traveled to Thailand before the internet actually had to know something about the place, and about life in general, before undertaking a long and uncertain adventure so far from home. Now, any moron, with a Lonely Planet, an iPhone, and a few pages printed from websites, can show up at Ao Manao beach in Prachuap, and annoy everybody just as effectively as they did back home.

I think the quality of visitor, and the quality of the expats that have made Thailand their destination, has eroded substantially. Not that it fits everyone, but the average has been dragged into the mud, IMO.

I used to think that, by learning the language, I could gain an advantage, especially by avoiding Bangkok, Chiang Mai, etc., where there were so many farang kee-nok. Whereas, five years or so ago, it was still possible to hole-up somewhere in Isaan, or the near-South, and be unique for your farangness, now, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting half a dozen, tattooed, pierced, gap-year trust-fund babies. or, worse, their parents.

I think I will take a cue from Yogi Berra: "Thailand? Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."...

The problem is, of course, that there's NOWHERE I'd want to be that doesn't have the SAME problem.

I'd have to say there were more ignorant GIs running around 30 years back......with no offense to the GIs. There were thousands of them here, including many thousands who came for 'rest and recuperation' from Vietnam....most all for a few weeks or a year at most...and most who ventured downtown ventured downtown for a good time. Lots of babies left behind, lots and lots of drugs from marijuana to heroin, bars galore.....GIs lighting ceremonial cigars in bars with a 100 Baht note (not considering whose picture is on the bill), or a couple of visiting missionaries who thought it'd be cool to sit atop a Buddha's head at a temple for a photo shoot.
I'll agree that the internet and exchange rate fluctuations of the past 10 years have resulted in a swarm of new arrivals......but of those, I'd say most are good with a few bad ones mixed in.

Well, GIs on leave will be GIs on leave, ANYWHERE in the world. But the ones who came back to stay, in my experience, are a whole lot better than the typical knuckleheads you see in Sukhumvit, or even in Soi Alcohol in Nong Khai of late. At least they paid their dues, saw something of the country, and came back to settle.

Of course, OUR culture has changed a lot in 30-40 years, and I'm sure I'm reacting to what I perceive as a serious decline. But I still blame the nameless/faceless internet for making it easy for them to show up...

Settle down Sateev, by the way, I agree

Whew, ok, I'm over it...

I agree with you Sateev. But...
As long as I can remember young people have always travelled, with or without the internet. All the nice beaches where you can now see 1 or 10 luxury hotels, or Club Med or what ever, were once discovered by young travellers. In fact, hotel chains keep an eye on young travellers to find out where the next good spot will be to capitalize on tourism.
I don`t think the internet have made young people come here in big numbers, they would be here anyway. I think the internet have made older people believe living here is easy. Old people, like you and me, coming here in big numbers, thinking as long as we have a skirt to hold on to and a forum, we will be in paradice.

Hi,
I came to LOS first in 1970. Worked for BOAC, then, BA now. Fell in love with the place without the internet, none then. I finally settled down here in 2005 when i retired.
So the internet did not make me believe it was easy to live here. I knew from experience that it was easier to live here.
Back home a house in 2005, two up and two down, in a terrace, would have cost me 200,000GBP's. Way out of my range. In Udon in 2005, I bought a new fully detached bungalow, three bedrooms, two bathrooms, with land, for 14,000GBP. I could not have bought a garage at home for that. The same type house back home was 500,000GBP's min.. The only thing i miss is living by the sea, i like sailing. But i can live with this. The Thai people i have met have also been very good. I would walk by myself in the streets of Udon, at night. Would not do this in any cities in the U.K.
I have a skirt to hold on to, as you say. I'm sure a very many people in the U.K. have too. But it is nicer to hold on to out here. And a forum I.M.O. is a good thing. You gain plenty of useful information and help from people.
If i did not like it here, and six years is a good trial period, i would leave. And would say to anyone who was not happy with the place, go where you think the grass is greener.
As for prices, a phone call from home to LOS costs my daughter, not from a mobil, 1.20GBP's a min. I can phone from here to home for about 0.07GBP's a min. Who is being ripped off.
A bit of info. for British expats. The gov. is trying to freeze the pensions of people that do not live in U.K., within the next couple of years. I have asked my daughter to e-mail me the details and web sites. Should get to know tomorrow or Sunday. This does not effect me but i will post the details when i recieve them. Might be of interest to some. They are trying to get a petition up, they need at least 100,000 sig. to have it brought up in parliament.
Cheers Doug.