The Supreme Non-Being

by **Laan Yaa Mo** » May 14, 2009, 4:31 am

[color=#8000BF]Khun Aznyron asked me a question about Taoism (Daoism), and rather than horn in further on a topic about a lad who offended his Christian school or add it to Old Timer's thread, it was decided to open a new thread here.

Philosophical Taoism has a penchant toward mysticism and intuition, which provides a world of imagination, and of art. It is very compicated to understand.

Taoist philosophy provides its own answers the the problems of life. The name is taken from the concept of 'Tao', the Way, a cosmic principle that is an amoral force that pervades all. The goal is to establish harmony through passive acceptance of the workings of this universal principle, the Tao.

The basic precept of the Taoists is non-action, yielding to the universal forces that assert themselves, swimming with the stream, a state free from strife and desire, of quietude, which would lead to a deeper intutitive understanding of the mysteries of life.

Taoism sees people living in harmony with nature, and if necessary isolated from other men. Nature, not man, is the essence of Taoist values. Hence it is called an extreme naturalism.

Well, what is the Tao?

The tao is described as colourless, tasteless, pale and dim, thin and vague, lacking positive qualities of heightened sensory perception.

What good to us then is the tao? None.

The tao is useful but we cannot invoke it. It will not help us in any specific sense. It is wholly impersonal. We cannot approach the tao in prayer or ask it to intercede for us.

The tao is 'unkind'; that is, not affected by human standards of morality and benevolence, nor indeed by anything.

'The Tao that can be expressed is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name'. This passage is the essence of what Taoism is: inexpressible, inescapable and infinite.

Taoism is a philosophy built on describing the indescribable.

One important Taoist philosopher stated that, 'he knew what to do but just did not want to do it'.

Taoist philosophy is not a religion and has no dogma. There is no Supreme Being like the Western notion of God who created the world.

Taoists believe in the notion of the Supreme Non-Being who cannot be affected by the triviality of human life. It does not organise the world nor does it control the universe from heaven; the Supreme Non-Being is simply a void; it is the universe.

In philosophical Taoism there is no concept of the afterlife.

It is very complicated to understand.

........................................................................................................................................

However, folk Taoism is replete with numerous gods, immortals, ghosts, and such familiar terms as, tai chi, feng shui (geomancy), acupuncture, magic potions, Chinese herbal medicine some of which are made from various wild animals that supposedly act much like viagra and so on. [/color]

by **UdonExpat** » May 16, 2009, 8:21 am

Sounds like a whole lot of nothing. :wave:

by **Laan Yaa Mo** » May 16, 2009, 8:23 am

Exactly...you are now qualified to retreat to a mountain and drink yourself into a stupor as many Taoists have done, and do. 55555

by **westerby** » May 16, 2009, 4:26 pm

Tao philosophy forms a basis for Chinese martial arts, particularly Kung Fu. There's a lot to do with harmonising yourself with nature rather than railing against it. It's just a different perspective on the World, I s'pose.

Do I sound pretentious yet?

by **Laan Yaa Mo** » May 17, 2009, 12:29 am

Yes Khun Westerby, the Shaolin School of Chinese boxing is another example of a group closely associated with folk Taoism. The goal is harmony with nature. The Yin-Yang school is all part of this too.

Philosophical Taoism provides no real answers to anything. Just accept the world as it is.

It is much easier to be an athiest in the Church of England.

by **westerby** » May 17, 2009, 1:33 am

Tilokarat wrote:The goal is harmony with nature. The Yin-Yang school is all part of this too.

Yes, trying to get my head around it at the moment.

Tilokarat wrote:Philosophical Taoism provides no real answers to anything. Just accept the world as it is.

Yes, I noticed you said 'folk Taoism' earleir. Isn't it derived from a mix of old animism as well?

Tilokarat wrote:It is much easier to be an athiest in the Church of England.

You mean like the Archbishop of Canterbury?

by **Laan Yaa Mo** » May 17, 2009, 1:48 am

The point is, I think, we are not supposed to get it. Just accept nature as it is. Sort of like people in Iceland (I am just making this bit up). Thus, do not even bother to try and understand the 'tao'.

Have a party. Dance to Jintara with the pink poodle. Enjoy. That's enough.

Yes, just like the Archbishop of Canterbury you do not have to believe in God, heaven, hell or anything. But, do not try and re-integrate with the Roman Catholic Church. Henry VIII and Elizabeth I would not be pleased.

Yes, folk Taoism, which is much easier to understand and is faith-based contains all kinds of animism.

Remember Chinese religion is syncretic so you can follow the teaching of Confucius, the Buddha, the Tao and anything else that gladdens your heart.

by **westerby** » May 17, 2009, 2:02 am

How strange you should say that, I'm returning to Iceland next month.

Accept the World as it is and integrate into it, yes I like that. Interesting how the teachings of Taoism, Buddhism and Confucius have no God and yet are still defined as religions. They are ways of living life rather than worshipping a supreme entity.

Westerby disappears up his own bottom....

by **Laan Yaa Mo** » May 17, 2009, 2:16 am

What, where are you disappearing?

That will be a strange location to gaze upon the world! Enjoy the view, and tell the pink poodle to stop sniffing around.

Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism have become religions because they are practiced like faith-based religions in the west. Thus, in Pure Land Buddhism in China, to enter the Western Paradise, all you have to do is say the name of the Buddha (the female Bodhisattva Kwan Yum) ten times, have faith that she is the goddess of mercy, and you have it made (this is a tailor-made religion for me).

The road to nirvana is too difficult for most people and studying the Buddhist scriptures is...well...boring. Far better to believe that good merit will lead to a better afterlife and a few prayers to the Buddha image and donations to the wat will provide you with material rewards in the here and now. The Buddha may not be a God but he is treated as a figure who can perform the deeds of a deity and intercede in one's life for good in Thailand, Laos, Burma, Cambodia and Sri Lanka.

Confucius never spoke about the afterlife yet praying to ancestors is very important in Chinese rituals, and these dead members of the family are supposed to keep watch so that life is good for the family currently living on this planet.

Whilst in Iceland ask them how they got their name since Greenland ended up with all of the ice, and they got the green. Beware of tall, lanky, cuddly blondes with sparkling blue eyes as you contemplate what to do in that land.

by **westerby** » May 17, 2009, 2:33 am

Yes, I spent too much time in the Icelandic wilderness five years ago and not enough days in Reykjavik. I was reliably informed that behind every tree was a beautiful woman but I failed to find any foliage at all.

Ancestors figure largely in Far Eastern culture, don't they? I'm guessing that must stretch back to Animist beliefs as well. I remember how the Chinese used to clean their ancestors bones out in the countryside during the Tsing Ming festival in Hong Kong and inadvertently set fire to the hillsides. Our helicopters used to have to fly out with underslung firebuckets to put out the fires. :lol:

the female Bodhisattva Kwan Yum

Now I'm interested in this diety, Tilo. Mrs Westerby keeps a little statuette of her in the dining room, what is the diety's significance to Thais and Chinese?

Does my voice sound muffled from up here?

by **Laan Yaa Mo** » May 17, 2009, 3:25 am

Yes, you are right about the ancestor worship. Confucius said he was not coming up with a new belief system but just analysing the past to state some ideas that would lead to harmony in society and politics.

This was the warring states period in Chinese history so his ideas about peace and quiet did not gain many adherents among the feuding princes at the time.

Kwan Yum (Cantonese)/Kuan Yin (Mandarin)/Kammon (Japanese) was originally a male bodhisattva in India with a very long name, and was transformed into a female in China. A bodhisattva is an enlightened being on the verge of Buddhahood (think Tony Blair, no, strike that thought); however, out of compassion for all living beings delays their entry to nirvana to show the way to everyone. Kwan Yum is also known as the Goddess of Mercy, she her hears the cries of the world and ferries all beings to Paradise. Mahayana Buddhism has many Buddhas, but she is the popular one. To many Chinese, Kwan Yum is the Buddha.

At one time if young suitors wanted to impress their sweethearts in China, they would refer to their girlfriends as Kwan Yum. It would be a very brave male who would do that now since Kwan Yum is rather plump.

Thailand, outside of the Chinese community, had little notion of Kwan Yum until very recently.

However, once Chinese people of power in Thailand began to assert their cultural identity (the past 20 years) Kwan Yum has become a powerful image throughout all of Thai society. For instance, there is an image of her beside the very important Wat Mahathat in Phitsanulok where pilgrims go to venerate the Phra Buddha Chinaraj image.

This was at a time when Sino-Thai politicians, writers, singers and others began proclaiming their Chinese heritage and criticising the accepted image of Thai culture (which excluded them) in the history of Thailand. Chinese programming (series, soap operas, movies) started becoming big events on tv based on Chinese literature, and the success of shows in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore.

Now, you can find Lao/Isaan/ northernThai/Thai people wearing pendants of Kwan Yum, which is something very new. Sometimes this is just a matter of having a Chinese mother or father.

Furthermore, the reading of the Kwan Yum sutra in Bangkok has become an important merit-making activity. This is not Chinese culture taking over and subsuming traditional Thai/Lao/Isaan values and heritage, but it does show the importance of the Chinese in Thailand.

I like Iceland and their hot springs but it does not do much for tree growing to have so many hot springs.

by **westerby** » May 17, 2009, 3:57 am

Tilokarat wrote:Mahayana Buddhism has many Buddhas, but she is the popular one. To many Chinese, Kwan Yum is the Buddha.

Now I'm confused, how can you have more than one Buddha? It's like Buddha has been reinvented as a God of sorts and cloned to bring him into line with the Indian Hindu dieties. I always thought Buddhism was about achieving Nirvana through the process of merit making, living the right way, etc., not about little idols in temples.

Ban idolatry!

by **Laan Yaa Mo** » May 17, 2009, 4:18 am

This is the key difference between Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism.

Theravada Buddhism is practiced in Thailand, Burma, Laos, Cambodia, parts of Southern Vietnam and Sri Lanka (although a caste system operates here, and you must remain a monk for life). The focus is on the historical Buddha. They talk of a future Buddha - Maitreya.

In Mahayana Buddhism (practiced in India, Nepal, Bhutan, Tibet, Mongolia, China, the Koreas (well, the south), Japan and most of Vietnam, they acknowledge the historical Buddha but say there are many Buddhas. This is its appeal in those parts of the world where, when Buddhism first arrived, it had to compete with Taoism, and Confucius.

To many Chinese, Buddhism would never become popular with its study of scriptures that had to be translated and its monastic community as in the Thai/Lao/Khmer/Burmese/Sinhalese Buddhist states. Thus, the Chinese looked for shortcuts to nirvana. One of these shortcuts was the Pureland faith-based system of which I have already said enough.

The other shortcut was Ch'an Buddhism which is a direct translation for the Sanskrit word for meditation. The Japanese call this school Zen. It is focused on meditation and intuition. One example is the historical Buddha handing a flower to one of his disciples and the disciple, I think, Ananda, 'got it', and he became enlightened - an awakened being, a bodhisattva.

Mahayana Buddhism says that any sentient being has the potential to become a Buddha, you, me, Beer Monkey, even the Irish Ulick guy. Furthermore, they say they are thousands of Buddhas lurking about in the many Buddhist heavens. You get to that state through meditation (Ch'an) or by faith (Kwan Yum and the Pure Land School).

Tibet and Mongolia practice another form of Mahayana Buddhism known as Tantric Buddhism.

Theravada Buddhism is the older school and is known as 'the Way of the elders'.

Mahayana Buddhism means the 'Great Path' suggesting that their school is superior. In fact, they call Theravada Buddhism, 'Hinayana', the Lesser School.

Merit-making and the Law of Karma are important in Theravada Buddhism and karma in Hinduism.

Screw all these theories, go listen to Jintara, Me', Oratai or someone else. I mean ignore all of those theories.

But, they are interesting ways to interpret the world. I mean the music of Jintara et al not religion.

Indeed, the words of wisdom are all summed up in that little ditty, 'The Hokie Pokey - that's what it's all about. The 'all' I take as the meaning of life and the universe.

by **westerby** » May 17, 2009, 8:58 pm

I'm enlightened, thank you...

by **Laan Yaa Mo** » May 17, 2009, 11:37 pm

Yes...no doubt myself and others on this great sea of misery will agree wholeheartedly.

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