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ClimateGate busts things wide open

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ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby ronan01 » January 26, 2012, 9:01 am

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ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby BobHelm » January 26, 2012, 9:13 am

Lord Lawson, you are really having a laugh now aren't you...

Him & Christopher Walter Monckton, my God that would be a dinner party to avoid... :D :D

Even his current Conservative Party cronies have deserted him....look what they say about him & his 'think tank' ....

The energy secretary, Chris Huhne, has attacked Lord Lawson's influential climate sceptic thinktank, the Global Warming Policy Foundation, as "misinformed", "wrong" and "perverse".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... think-tank

Rolling out another failed economist to support your views...talk about scraping the barrel...

But, you appear to completely have missed the significant event, so I will repeat it for you....


BobHelm wrote:
Huge Blow to Science Deniers: Koch Funded Researchers Confirm Global Warming

http://www.alternet.org/environment/152 ... al_warming

But Muller's congressional testimony last March didn't go according to plan. He told them a preliminary analysis suggested that the three main climate models in use today—each of which uses a different estimating technique, and each of which has potential flaws—are all pretty accurate: Global temperatures have gone up considerably over the past century, and the increase has accelerated over the past few decades. Last week, BEST confirmed these results and others in its first set of published papers about land temperatures.(Ocean studies will come later.) Using a novel statistical methodology that incorporates more data than other climate models and requires less human judgment about how to handle it (summarized by the Economist here), the BEST team drew several conclusions:

The earth is indeed getting warmer. Global average land temperatures have risen 0.91 degrees Celsius over the past 50 years. This is "on the high end of the existing range of reconstructions."
The rate of increase on land is accelerating. Warming for the entire 20th century clocks in at 0.73 degrees C per century. But over the most recent 40 years, the globe has warmed at a rate of 2.76 degrees C per century.
Warming has not abated since 1998. The rise in average temperature over the period 1998-2010 is 2.84 degrees C per century.
The BEST data significantly reduces the uncertainty of the temperature reconstructions. Their estimate of the temperature increase over the past 50 years has an uncertainty of only 0.04 degrees C, compared to a reported uncertainty of 0.13 degrees C in the most recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report.
Although many of the temperature measuring stations around the world have large individual uncertainties, taken as a whole the data is quite reliable. The difference in reported averages between stations ranked "okay" and stations ranked "poor" is very small.
The urban heat island effect—i.e., the theory that rising temperatures around cities might be corrupting the global data—is very small.
Climategate was always a ridiculous sideshow, and this is just one more nail in its coffin. Climate scientists got the basic data right, and they've almost certainly gotten the human causes right too.
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ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby ronan01 » January 26, 2012, 10:41 am

What Lawson has said:

"Had he wished to be objective, he would have noted that, while there was indeed a modest increase in mean global temperature (of about half a degree Centigrade) during the last quarter of the 20th century, so far this century both the UK Met Office and the World Meteorological Office confirm that there has been no further global warming at all.

What will happen in the future is inevitably unclear. But two things are clear. First, that Sir David’s alarmism is sheer speculation. Second, that if there is a resumption of warming, the only rational course is to adapt to it, rather than to try (happily a lost cause) to persuade the world to impoverish itself by moving from relatively cheap carbon-based energy to much more expensive non-carbon energy
."

Seems sensible to me. A bit more sober than the big oil gibberish being spouted.

As for your laugable ad hominen attack and attempted smear, the following link contains a detailed refutation of your ridiculous claim:

http://www.climate-resistance.org/2011/ ... -1001.html

Bob has clearly demonstrated the case for "climate change" rests on a preoccupation with whom funds whom big oil gibberish and childish ad hominem attacks.

It is dead in the water. To argue the contrary is a Phythonesqe demonstration of absurdity:

"No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue, idn'it, ay? Beautiful plumage! .... Well, he's...he's, ah...probably pining for the fjords."

"Climate change" is not a Norwegian Blue pining for the fjiords.

"Climate change" is a dead parrot.
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ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby BobHelm » January 26, 2012, 10:57 am

Nigel Lawson is a failed economist.
While in power he managed to get UK inflation to 8% and the bank rate to 15% & helped oversee the ruination of manufactured industry in the UK as a result.
So he actively failed in the job that he was qualified to do & now you want to take his advice on something he knows nothing about!!
Madness, just because he agrees with your standpoint.

I see you have not answered the clearly stated claims by Muller to the US congress that...
That the three main climate models in use today—each of which uses a different estimating technique, and each of which has potential flaws—are all pretty accurate: Global temperatures have gone up considerably over the past century, and the increase has accelerated over the past few decades.


That was then further confirmed by the BEST analysis...

It is all very well having silly digs at GreenPeace & Sir David Attenborough but the fact of the matter is that your basic premises that climate change is not happening has been proved to be wrong.
Even more galling for you is that this, above, has been confirmed by Muller a scientist who always took an anti climate warming stance...

You can make your silly jokes ronan, because that is exactly what all your arguments have been reduced to...
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ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby ronan01 » January 26, 2012, 11:44 am

'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!
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ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby BobHelm » January 26, 2012, 2:08 pm

& still not answered the question...
A busted flush...poor ronan, almost feel sorry for him left without a cause to rant over.... :D :D

The thread was about Scientists manipulating data to achieve the results that they said would happen..

2 Government enquires have said that the original claims were totally incorrect & now, even worse, a denier scientist has stood up before a senate committee & admitted that what the Global Warming models predicted would happen is exactly what did happen...

So sad.....
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ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby ronan01 » January 26, 2012, 5:12 pm

Lawson said:

Had he wished to be objective, he would have noted that, while there was indeed a modest increase in mean global temperature (of about half a degree Centigrade) during the last quarter of the 20th century, so far this century both the UK Met Office and the World Meteorological Office confirm that there has been no further global warming at all.

What will happen in the future is inevitably unclear. But two things are clear. First, that Sir David’s alarmism is sheer speculation. Second, that if there is a resumption of warming, the only rational course is to adapt to it, rather than to try (happily a lost cause) to persuade the world to impoverish itself by moving from relatively cheap carbon-based energy to much more expensive non-carbon energy.


http://www.climate-resistance.org/2011/ ... -1001.html

Hansen said:

James Hansen told the Guardian: "Our children and grandchildren will judge those who have misled the public, allowing fossil fuel emissions to continue almost unfettered, as guilty of crimes against humanity and nature. But the eventual conviction of these people in the court of public opinion will do little to ease the burdens that will have been created for today's young people and future generations."

"The science is clear. Unless we restore the planet's energy balance and stabilise climate, by rapidly reducing fossil fuel emissions, we will leave today's young people a rapidly deteriorating climate system with consequences that will out of their control. If successful, the FOI request may, by exposing one link in a devious manipulation of public opinion, start a process that allows the public to be aware of what is happening, what is at stake, and where the public interest lies."


Hansen has a long history of failed predictions, he also said it is game over if the tar sands are mined, and the oceans will boil because of runaway warming, or something like that - It does seem he is trying to sell a Nowegian Blue.

To me Lawsons proposition seems much more reasonable than Hansens. Lawson does not strike me as alarmist.

Lawsons proposal is also simpler - adapt to change, rather than to try (happily a lost cause) to persuade the world to impoverish itself by moving from relatively cheap carbon-based energy to much more expensive non-carbon energy.

I tend to prefer Lawson on this - at least he provides hope.

Hansens proposition seems unreasonable and alarmist. Hansen believes in "climate change". So does Bob.

Hansen and his fellow totalitarian "climate change" acolytes offer only doom and despair, and increasing threats of "climate criminals" being tried in "climate courts" (I assume this will include a goodly portion of the citizens of Canada for being naugty and exporting their oil without his permission) - unless you play the game and purchase a Norwegian Blue from him that is.

Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue, idn'it, ay? Beautiful plumage!
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ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby BobHelm » January 26, 2012, 5:22 pm

And someone is still whistling in the dark hoping that the nasty eco-scientists don't get him...
Because now he knows he is all alone with just the lunatic fringe of the former Conservatives as his aid.
The science is proved, it is no more worth while ex-Chancellors & self appointed 'Advisors' filling the lines with their non scientific thoughts & garbage.
God help anyone that thinks Lord Lawson & Christopher Monckton are worthy sources. So extreme that even members of the party to which they belonged & their beloved leader Maggie have rejected & distanced themselves from the garbage they now spout.
It is indeed sad to see how former politicians are now so isolated in their foolish extremist views...

BobHelm wrote:& still not answered the question...
A busted flush...poor ronan, almost feel sorry for him left without a cause to rant over.... :D :D

The thread was about Scientists manipulating data to achieve the results that they said would happen..

2 Government enquires have said that the original claims were totally incorrect & now, even worse, a denier scientist has stood up before a senate committee & admitted that what the Global Warming models predicted would happen is exactly what did happen...

So sad.....
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ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby ronan01 » January 26, 2012, 5:53 pm

Again Bob brilliantly demonstrates the case for "climate change" is supported only by appeal to authority and ad hominem attacks.

The science is proved - did you really say that, oh dear. The majority of scientists agree, all the studies were peer reviewed. hahahahahaha

Such a strange reaction - but why? Why do these few simple words cause so much concern and such a strong attack on Lawson:

Had he wished to be objective, he would have noted that, while there was indeed a modest increase in mean global temperature (of about half a degree Centigrade) during the last quarter of the 20th century, so far this century both the UK Met Office and the World Meteorological Office confirm that there has been no further global warming at all.

What will happen in the future is inevitably unclear. But two things are clear. First, that Sir David’s alarmism is sheer speculation. Second, that if there is a resumption of warming, the only rational course is to adapt to it, rather than to try (happily a lost cause) to persuade the world to impoverish itself by moving from relatively cheap carbon-based energy to much more expensive non-carbon energy.


Seems a very reasonable suggestion to me - which parts of it are not true. Why the apoplexy Bob?

Is it because it does not conform to the teachings of the church of "climate change"?
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ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby ronan01 » January 26, 2012, 6:00 pm

BobHelm wrote:And someone is still whistling in the dark hoping that the nasty eco-scientists don't get him...
Because now he knows he is all alone with just the lunatic fringe of the former Conservatives as his aid.
The science is proved, it is no more worth while ex-Chancellors & self appointed 'Advisors' filling the lines with their non scientific thoughts & garbage.
God help anyone that thinks Lord Lawson & Christopher Monckton are worthy sources. So extreme that even members of the party to which they belonged & their beloved leader Maggie have rejected & distanced themselves from the garbage they now spout.It is indeed sad to see how former politicians are now so isolated in their foolish extremist views...

BobHelm wrote:& still not answered the question...
A busted flush...poor ronan, almost feel sorry for him left without a cause to rant over.... :D :D

The thread was about Scientists manipulating data to achieve the results that they said would happen..

2 Government enquires have said that the original claims were totally incorrect & now, even worse, a denier scientist has stood up before a senate committee & admitted that what the Global Warming models predicted would happen is exactly what did happen...

So sad.....



I doubt Maggie could reject or distance herself from anything at present. I think your getting a bit carried away.

Has she recovered from dementia?
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ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby BobHelm » January 26, 2012, 6:04 pm

Lord Lawson has no interest in climate change, or anything to do with it.
His only concerns are to maintain a far right wing Conservative approach to industry that lets everything run with zero legislation curbing the extremes.
That is my objection to him...nothing to do with anything he says on climate change, that is a mask for his aims...
He also refuses to practice what he preaches.
He demands that any group releasing scientific data releases all data, but currently refuses to say where his 'charity' organisation gets its' funds from.

However he is an incidental as far as climate discussions are concerned. It might be nice if you could get me off the subject ronan, but you will not.

The fact is that you cannot answer my points about all your tales of evil doing & data manipulation by the scientific community has absolutely found to be without any foundation. Worse that even denier scientists agree that the 'models' were actually accurate in their predictions.
Game, set & match I am afraid as you are left scrabbling about for petty stories when the BIG ONE is now lost to you....

Try again ronan.....I have asked 3 times now...answer if you can...

& still not answered the question...
A busted flush...poor ronan, almost feel sorry for him left without a cause to rant over.... :D :D

The thread was about Scientists manipulating data to achieve the results that they said would happen..

2 Government enquires have said that the original claims were totally incorrect & now, even worse, a denier scientist has stood up before a senate committee & admitted that what the Global Warming models predicted would happen is exactly what did happen...

So sad.....
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ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby ronan01 » January 26, 2012, 6:57 pm

Yeah, but what about Maggie?
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ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby ronan01 » January 26, 2012, 7:04 pm

& still not answered the question...
A busted flush...poor ronan, almost feel sorry for him left without a cause to rant over.... :D :D

The thread was about Scientists manipulating data to achieve the results that they said would happen..

2 Government enquires have said that the original claims were totally incorrect & now, even worse, a denier scientist has stood up before a senate committee & admitted that what the Global Warming models predicted would happen is exactly what did happen...

So sad.....
[/quote]

Are we talking about the scientists who lost the data, or some other crew?

By the way - do you really believe the science is settled?
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ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby BobHelm » January 26, 2012, 7:32 pm

As you seem to have issues following anything complicated I will try & take it slowly, then, hopefully you can understand...
Physicists are notorious for believing that other scientists are mathematically incompetent. And University of California-Berkeley physicist Richard Muller is notorious for believing that conventional wisdom is often wrong. For example, the conventional wisdom about climate change. Muller has criticized Al Gore in the past as an "exaggerator," has spoken warmly of climate skeptic Anthony Watts, and has said that Steve McIntyre's famous takedown of the "hockey stick" climate graph made him "uncomfortable" with the paper the hockey stick was originally based on.

See, reasonable establishment of the scientist's credentials that he is a sceptic...
So in 2010 he started up the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature project (BEST) to show the world how to do climate analysis right. Who better, after all? "Muller's views on climate have made him a darling of skeptics," saidScientific American, "and newly elected Republicans in the House of Representatives, who invited him to testify to the Committee on Science, Space and Technology about his preliminary results." The Koch Foundation, founded by the billionaire oil brothers who have been major funders of the climate-denial machine, gave BEST a $150,000 grant.

Hardly a pro-Global Warming outfit. Funded by one of the 'big oil' deniers who you say do not exist.
But Muller's congressional testimony last March didn't go according to plan. He told them a preliminary analysis suggested that the three main climate models in use today—each of which uses a different estimating technique, and each of which has potential flaws—are all pretty accurate: Global temperatures have gone up considerably over the past century, and the increase has accelerated over the past few decades.

Do you understand that.....the scientists were right & temperatures have gone up & that climate warming is accelerating.
But, of course, those were only preliminary results so could change on full analysis.
However...
Last week, BEST confirmed these results and others in its first set of published papers about land temperatures.(Ocean studies will come later.) Using a novel statistical methodology that incorporates more data than other climate models and requires less human judgment about how to handle it (summarized by the Economist here), the BEST team drew several conclusions:

So, full analysis over...results reveal..
1. The earth is indeed getting warmer. Global average land temperatures have risen 0.91 degrees Celsius over the past 50 years. This is "on the high end of the existing range of reconstructions."

Understand....the models predicted this, but only it was at the 'high end' of their predictions. So they nearly underestimated the gains...
2. The rate of increase on land is accelerating. Warming for the entire 20th century clocks in at 0.73 degrees C per century. But over the most recent 40 years, the globe has warmed at a rate of 2.76 degrees C per century.

The 'moving average' is increasing. The Earth is not warming up at a consistent rate, it is increasing...considerably.
3. Warming has not abated since 1998. The rise in average temperature over the period 1998-2010 is 2.84 degrees C per century.

The rate is continuing to increase...

That is what the models suggested....that is what actually happened...
No, loss of data...no manipulation....Independent proof from a scientist who had zero incentive to prove what the results were - exactly the opposite.

The BEST data significantly reduces the uncertainty of the temperature reconstructions. Their estimate of the temperature increase over the past 50 years has an uncertainty of only 0.04 degrees C, compared to a reported uncertainty of 0.13 degrees C in the most recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report.

The chances that they are wrong are minuscule,,,
Although many of the temperature measuring stations around the world have large individual uncertainties, taken as a whole the data is quite reliable. The difference in reported averages between stations ranked "okay" and stations ranked "poor" is very small.

No bad data from around the World as deniers have always claimed.
The urban heat island effect—i.e., the theory that rising temperatures around cities might be corrupting the global data—is very small.

This is one of Lord Lawson's basis for being a denier....problem gone...

In the press release announcing the results, Muller said, "Our biggest surprise was that the new results agreed so closely with the warming values published previously by other teams in the US and the UK." In other words, climate scientists know what they're doing after all.

Oh, what a surprise, there was not a problem from the start, just deniers saying there was..

So YES the science is settled & very, very few deniers now claim that Global Warming does not exist.

I will wait with interest to see any legitimate claims that somehow Muller is wrong.
Other than that I have no interest to replying to your silly posts any more.
The science is settled, Climategate is dead, the deniers were wrong....
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ClimateGate busts things wide open

Postby jackspratt » January 26, 2012, 7:56 pm

BobHelm wrote:Other than that I have no interest to replying to your silly posts any more.


I think this is the key point Bob.

Perhaps leave the thread to ronan, so he can continue his silly crusade.

Climategate 1 - dead.

Climategate 2 - dead.

Case closed.
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