IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

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LilRed
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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by LilRed » May 16, 2013, 6:49 pm

Great article.

http://news.yahoo.com/irs-long-history- ... 54370.html


Looks like da Bush's, Reagan; n Peanut are clean while the Clintons, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy n FDR are not...


Seems to me, both sides need attention... Meanin the country needs a whole lot better IRS, and, political integrity than this.

Kinda makes a flat rate income tax look worth considerin.

To be fair, the IRS has been straight with me. I was actually real impressed in '08. Had a tax question regardin da wife, that HnR Block, with ALL its resources couldn't answer... In frustration, after several days of research, the HRB office manager, called me in and reluctantly recommended callin the IRS hotline. It was, of course, 15 April, for reasons beyond my control...

After a 10 minute wait, IRS dude answers, introduces himself, and asks how he can help? HRB guy explains da question. IRS guy asks one question... Then cites the specific reg sites, reads them to us, and explains how she had to be included.

Less than 15 minutes for the IRS hotline, on April 15th... Pretty good performance...



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WBU ALUM
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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by WBU ALUM » May 18, 2013, 4:39 pm

The IRS needs to be abolished.

Flat tax for everyone at 10% across the board. No corporate taxes at all. Corporations only pass their taxes onto consumers in higher costs for goods and services. No deductions for anyone other than health care receipts -- 100% regardless of amount spent on health care (if big government really cared, they'd let health care be 100% deductible instead of playing this control game with citizens, but that's another story).

No need for the IRS with a flat tax. I made 'X' in income. Here's 10% of 'X' minus 100% of my health care costs with copies of all receipts. Have a nice day.

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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by LilRed » May 19, 2013, 9:08 am

WBU, momma tol' me, "If it sounds too good to be true, it isn't".

Unfortunately, the flat tax rate u describe doesn't seem to provide a national system of basic health care for all... And, maybe, some other stuff... Doesn't it sound "too good to be true"?

Again, I agree wid u that tax reform simplifyin taxes is required... But, NO taxes on corporations?


Naw... I say, "Eat the rich!"

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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by WBU ALUM » May 19, 2013, 10:45 am

LilRed wrote:WBU, momma tol' me, "If it sounds too good to be true, it isn't".

Unfortunately, the flat tax rate u describe doesn't seem to provide a national system of basic health care for all... And, maybe, some other stuff... Doesn't it sound "too good to be true"?

Again, I agree wid u that tax reform simplifyin taxes is required... But, NO taxes on corporations?


Naw... I say, "Eat the rich!"
It's not too good to be true. It's still more than what WAS.

The federal government was never intended to provide ANYTHING to the society other than logistical order. Period. There was no income tax until the beginning of the 1900s. Under that flat tax system, the federal government returns to what it was intended to be -- IN THE BACKGROUND and out of the daily lives of Americans. The Founders would have never ratified the Constitution had they known that there would be a federal government overburdening society and stealing their labor.

Corporations are people. They are comprised of people. Those who have the money and start the corporations, hire the people and purchase goods and services from other corporations. Tax the corporations, and they expand less, hire less, provide fewer benefits, raise prices on their goods and services. Yeah, eat the rich. Knock them down to size. Make them like everyone else. Punish them for their success. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
:roll:

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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by BobHelm » May 19, 2013, 12:34 pm

WBU ALUM wrote: There was no income tax until the beginning of the 1900s. Under that flat tax system, the federal government returns to what it was intended to be -- IN THE BACKGROUND and out of the daily lives of Americans.
A RELIABLE source for this would be useful.
Sources that I have read suggest that what you say is incorrect & that Congress enacted the first Income Tax Bill in 1862 & that it was NOT at a flat rate, but incremental...

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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by gudtymchuk » May 19, 2013, 12:57 pm

Not nearly as hard to find facts about US taxation as finding the truth about ANYTHING in the Obama Administration. According to the History of the Income Tax, the federal income tax was first enacted in 1862 to support the Union's Civil War effort. It was eliminated in 1872, revived in 1894, then declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court the following year. In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system.
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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by BobHelm » May 19, 2013, 1:02 pm

Ah thank you gudtymchuk, always good to have a source verified, even with the rhetoric.. :D
In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system.
So Income Tax is actually part of the American Constitution then...
Interesting. I would then expect it to be supported by those who say that they
'Support the Constitution'...

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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by gudtymchuk » May 19, 2013, 1:28 pm

BobHelm wrote:Ah thank you gudtymchuk, always good to have a source verified, even with the rhetoric.. :D
In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system.
So Income Tax is actually part of the American Constitution then...
Interesting. I would then expect it to be supported by those who say that they
'Support the Constitution'...
Ah but Mr. Bob, the right to disagree is also very much written into the our US Constitution. The Cato Institute has a very interesting view of the US Tax Code which, by the way, no "average" American has a snowball's chance in hell of understanding.
If you go to the US Government Printing Office ( http://www.gpo.gov ), you can order a complete set of Title 26 of the US Code of Federal Regulations (that's the part written by the IRS), all twenty volumes of it, at the bargain price of $974, shipping included.

According to the US Government Printing Office, it's 13,458 pages in total. The full text of Title 26 of the United States Code (the part written by Congress--available for an additional $179) is a mere 3,387 printed pages, bringing the adjusted gross page count to 16,845.
Might want to take a look here for an educational view on the income tax.
http://www.cato.org/publications/commen ... income-tax
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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by WBU ALUM » May 19, 2013, 1:42 pm

gudtymchuk wrote:In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system.
Yes, that was to what I was referring, gudtymchuk.

During the Civil War there were many rules of law suspended for the war effort because the Union was on the verge of destruction.

gudty, I know you don't fall within this category, but for those unfamiliar with the Constitution, and there are many on this forum but stick their noses into it, using tax revenue to support the operation of the government was always a power written within the original document of the Constitution. However, there was never anything in there then or today that advocated the theft of labor -- the economic slavery -- forcing one individual to give to an unproductive member of the society. This was never ever the intention of the Founders. Never. Charity is a local issue and is meant to be voluntary.

The federal income tax law was passed with the idea that it would replace tax revenue that was being lost due to world events, and only those making over half a million dollars would be taxed at a rate of 7%.

Calling for a flat tax -- and to use the Left's reasoning when they always pull out that "Equal protection under the law" clause in the 14th Amendment -- is to make everything equal. It just points to more hypocrisy of the Left. Everyone should be treated equally and fairly unless they make a lot of money. Everyone should have the freedom to choose, unless it has to do with purchasing a firearm or having a toilet tank that holds more water or having the health insurance that they prefer.

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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by BobHelm » May 19, 2013, 2:16 pm

If anybody wants to read what the Amendment actually says without all the political bias then I suggest that they read here..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_ ... nstitution

i.e. Income Tax is part of the American Constitution..

Thanks for the information gudtymchuk.
Makes the truth a great deal easier to discover with an accurate source... :D

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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by gudtymchuk » May 19, 2013, 3:22 pm

And again, the problem being somehow we have gone from this simple 30 word amendment;

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

To this: 16,845 pages of garbled, legalized crap overseen by a Department of Government with far reaching powers, the ability to incarcerate citizens, ruin peoples lives, create havoc with business and industry and as we have seen this week in the news, make a mockery of the same constitution that created the tax.
The lemmings, (Liberals), would rather castigate, belittle and minimize groups such as the "Tea Party" movement rather than see the need for radical tax reform.
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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by WBU ALUM » May 19, 2013, 3:47 pm

gudtymchuk wrote:And again, the problem being somehow we have gone from this simple 30 word amendment;

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

To this: 16,845 pages of garbled, legalized crap overseen by a Department of Government with far reaching powers, the ability to incarcerate citizens, ruin peoples lives, create havoc with business and industry and as we have seen this week in the news, make a mockery of the same constitution that created the tax.
The lemmings, (Liberals), would rather castigate, belittle and minimize groups such as the "Tea Party" movement rather than see the need for radical tax reform.
Much easier for Libs to attack people than to focus on facts. Obfuscation is their hallmark.

Congressman Mike Kelly says it all:



Mr. Miller even had the nerve to state that income taxes were voluntary. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by BobHelm » May 19, 2013, 4:00 pm

gudtymchuk
The lemmings, (Liberals), would rather castigate, belittle and minimize groups such as the "Tea Party" movement rather than see the need for radical tax reform.
WBU ALUM
Much easier for Libs to attack people than to focus on facts. Obfuscation is their hallmark.
Oh so easy to blame others, strange how (on here at least) it is always the Conservatives doing the name calling. :D

I guess that the USA must have had only liberal administrations since it all started then .. :D :D

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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by jackspratt » May 19, 2013, 5:20 pm

So, recognizing that the US tax system (amongst a number of others) is a clusterfuuck, put into place and maintained (purely by self-interest) by both sides of politics, let's get back to the real issue - because this is what all this "outrage" is about.

How does this implicate the President?

The conservatives seem to come up with new obfuscations (I love that word) every day, but on the 3 "big" issues of the moment (IRS, AP and Benghazi) not a finger of any substance has been laid upon Obama.

Put up or shut up springs to mind. :D

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Post by merchant seaman » May 19, 2013, 5:40 pm

And nothing will lead back to Obama. Not saying he wasn't involved or that he wasn't aware of what took place but he will not be implicated in any way.
No man has a good enough memory to be a succesful liar.

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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by WBU ALUM » May 19, 2013, 5:47 pm

The President of the United States is the head of the Executive Branch. The President of the United States has direct control over everything in the Executive Branch. Direct. Everything.

These are the departments in the Executive over which the President of the United States has direct authority. He also appoints the head of each department.

Department of Agriculture (USDA)
Department of Commerce (DOC)
Department of Defense (DOD)
Department of Education (ED)
Department of Energy (DOE)
Department of Health and Human Services (HHS)
Department of Homeland Security (DHS) (The Border Patrol is within this department)
Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD)
Department of Justice (DOJ) (The FBI and ATF is within this department)
Department of Labor (DOL)
Department of State (DOS) (Benghazi)
Department of the Interior (DOI)
Department of the Treasury (The IRS is within this department)
Department of Transportation (DOT)
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)

This thread is about the IRS and the tax code. I don't recall anyone placing any blame on Barack Obama for anything directly -- yet -- but he is the CEO. He is responsible for everything that happens in his departments.

All of these investigations are relatively new and just beginning. For those whose memories are weak or are ignorant of facts, the Watergate investigation began in June 1972. Nixon resigned in August 1974. Do the math. It's early, and there was a media going after Nixon the entire time, unlike what has been occurring for the past 4.5 years.

Only missing one more tag-team member. He should be along soon. :lol:

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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by jackspratt » May 19, 2013, 5:51 pm

WBU ALUM wrote: Only missing one more tag-team member. He should be along soon. :lol:
I see you have put the banality cloak back on.

It does rather suit you. :D

ps Nixon was engaged in criminality from the get go. [-(
Last edited by jackspratt on May 19, 2013, 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by WBU ALUM » May 19, 2013, 5:53 pm

merchant seaman wrote:And nothing will lead back to Obama. Not saying he wasn't involved or that he wasn't aware of what took place but he will not be implicated in any way.
Many will fall on their swords for The One.

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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by WBU ALUM » May 19, 2013, 6:06 pm

jackspratt wrote:ps Nixon was engaged in criminality from the get go. [-(
List the criminality and provide the date that coincides with "the get go."
jackspratt wrote:Put up or shut up springs to mind. :D
This gander thinks it should be good for the goose.

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IRS Abuse: The Current Debacle and Recent Past History

Post by jackspratt » May 19, 2013, 6:32 pm

Sorry WBU - I am not going to indulge your semantic fantasies.

Nixon's history speaks for itself (as does yours, BTW).

Moving right along to contemporary times, when some real evidence of wrongdoing or negligence by Obama has been shown, let's get back to this debate. \:D/

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