Living standards in Thailand over next 10 years

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GT93
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Living standards in Thailand over next 10 years

Post by GT93 » February 21, 2014, 10:14 am

I'm interested in others thoughts on two questions:

1 Over say the next 10 years do you think living standards between Thailand (and Udon in particular) and farang countries is going to continue to narrow? This would presumably be because the Thai economy grows on average more strongly than most farang countries. So that's a question on relativities and might get distorted if you think Europe's going to be a mess for another 10 years.

And 2: over the next 10 years do you think the Thai (and presumably Udon) standard of living is going to improve strongly? There's no comparison with other countries here.

I would have thought "yes" is the answer to each question but would be interested in others thoughts. I think this matters as it affects decisions where Thai members of our families live.


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Living standards in Thailand over next 10 years

Post by semperfiguy » February 21, 2014, 5:23 pm

GT93, I guess it all depends on what you consider "standards of living". If you are referring to:

1. Cleaner water and air
2. Less dogs
3. Less rubbish scattered around
4. Better hygienic conditions in eateries
5. Less noise
6. Better drivers
7. An improvement in manners and etiquette
8. Better attitudes toward foreigners
9. Better construction standards
10. Better infrastructure
11. Less toxic food products
12. Cheaper fuel
13. Better healthcare

My answer would be no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no...come back in 10 years and all you will see is more of the same in Udon...if not worse!
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Living standards in Thailand over next 10 years

Post by plumbers » February 21, 2014, 5:58 pm

The lack of education and corruption is the root of the problem, for the uneducated no change in
the next ten years and their lives will harder .
Driving cars and motor bikes with out any sense or responsibility because they have not grasped the basics of considering others and a mind set of as long as i am ok Jack.
Example my ex girl friends sister never understood the colours of the traffic lights , she just followed the flow.
As i am told Thailand no one care its FREE STYLE !
That is the joy of living here every one pleases them selves .

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Living standards in Thailand over next 10 years

Post by Jello » February 21, 2014, 6:16 pm

Standard of living is economics, those are quality of life issues sfg.
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Living standards in Thailand over next 10 years

Post by FrazeeDK » February 21, 2014, 7:39 pm

over the next 10 years eh?? I'd say just go back 40 years, 30 years, 20 years, 10 years, 5 years and see the constant progression upward of living standards here in Thailand for the majority of the people.. While there always will be those things that irritate many folks (traffic trash, noise,,, et al), the overall living standard will improve.. The only thing that could drive it back would be a major disruption in the economy (another world or regional crash) or some type of major regional conflict (China perhaps?).

I'd say we'll see within the next 10 years:

- improvement in the highway infrastructure with the East-West Asian highway extending from Danang in Vietnam the Burma and the Bay of Bengal.. Eventually, if you're adventurous enough you'll be able to drive to India. Expect a rail line to parallel the highway.

- Improvement in the highway and rail system into China.. I can see four lane expressways from Thailand up into Kunming Province linking into the very modern Chinese interstate system. The planned "high speed rail" will be in operation although high speed will probably be 120-160 kph.. The Chinese have a vested interest in expanding their resource base and to establish unfettered economic domination of the region.. Modern road and rail links will accomplish this objective.

- A very slow implementation of the Asian Economic Community. But, within 10 years, I'd expect minimal border checks within the AEC.. It won't be free travel like the EU, but it'll be better than today.

- Udon as a regional air hub.. As the AEC integration improves, it makes sense to see Udon getting feeder flights from Hanoi, Kunming, and other international short hop destinations. I don't know that we'll ever see direct links on flag carriers from Udon to Tokyo/Seoul/Beijing/Singapore/KL but its a possibility.
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Post by bumper » February 21, 2014, 7:45 pm

Well I will tell you what been a lot of changes in Udon over the eleven years. I'm very comfortable owning land here. Some of thing mentioned just Asia for the most part.
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Post by pimples » February 21, 2014, 7:48 pm

too many unknowns that could skew the end results. such as global warming effects.
and a gent you cant talk about may not be around and how that may pan out in the light of goings on in BKK could have a profound effect on the situation in 10 years time.

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Living standards in Thailand over next 10 years

Post by parrot » February 21, 2014, 8:12 pm

parrot here, so page down if you can't stand the rose-colored tint:


I went to the airport twice today....morning it was packed, evening it was more packed. There's an astounding 18 flights per day that leave Udon.....18! In 2004, there were probably less than 5. I'd guess 18 is a pretty good indication that living standards have improved the past 10 years.......I don't see anything on the horizon (other than the bubble suddenly bursting) that indicates things won't continue.

UD Town wasn't here 10 or so years ago, nor was McDonalds or Starbucks or Central Mall or Bangkok Hospital, or 4 lanes going around the ring road, places like Bookhouse and Chern Chims were either in their infancy or dreams, Villa Market - ha ha ha - dream on, 3G and reasonably good ADSL were also dreams, Nongsim Lake? - just a lake, Sports Stadium? - another dream, 4 lane highway to Nongbualamphu was hardly finished, no condo projects nor ice-skating rink, nor multitude of Japanese restaurants or good falang restaurants.......you want a good cup of coffee 10 years ago, you'd have to search the city for a handful of coffee shops.....egads, the list could go on.

I'd guess 10 years ago lots of people were having water problems in Udon......but I can't recall anyone complaining about the water recently (maybe they're not complaining?).

My wife can get a passport in Udon today, but 10 years ago she had to go to KK. New Thai ID card? - easy....you can get one in several locations around the city in half the time it took years ago. Same with a driver's license. Oh, and about those 90 days trips to Nongkai or single-official office at AEK or unair conditioned office at the old airport? Forget it, center of the city, AC, friendly staff, reasonable parking, and I haven't seen a person walk in with a bottle of Johnnie Walker Black in 16 years. I haven't seen anything that indicates that service is getting anything but better there.

Most OTOP fairs at Tungsrimeuang are now in AC tents.......and there have been several that represent all provinces. Maybe not for everyone, but a world of improvement from 10 years ago.

Ten years ago, if I wanted to get my truck pimped while I sipped premium coffee in an air conditioned, tastefully decorated coffee shop with quality furniture while browsing the New York Times on a free wifi link and while eating some high quality cakes made by a baker trained in Hong Kong.......I'd surely not have found such a place in Udon.

Seems to me the only beers for sale in Udon back 10 years ago were Leo, Chang, Heini, and maybe one or two other brands. Count the variety today at places like Bubbas, Good Everything, Chern Chims, etc.

How many rest rooms had soap, tissue, or sit down toilets ten years ago.....where you felt reasonably safe from contracting something dangerous? Jiminy cricket, sfg, did you ever go in Makro's bathrooms 10 years ago?

So.......if things have improved so much in the past 10 years (in my rose-colored vision), why shouldn't they continue to improve over the next? Will Thailand or Udon be a perfect place in 10 years.......probably not.....but why would anyone come here and expect a developing country to offer the same standards as those of the developed country they left behind? I've never figured out the answer to that question.

In answer to the ops question, I'd have to say 'sure, they'll improve'. Why wouldn't they?

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Living standards in Thailand over next 10 years

Post by plumbers » February 21, 2014, 8:41 pm

Yes a lot of what you say is correct Parrot new sit down toilets more air flights air conditioning Mcdonalds
utilities such as water wifi electric supplies.
Behind the scenes bad education corruption and ignorance and the poor staying poor.

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Living standards in Thailand over next 10 years

Post by parrot » February 21, 2014, 9:06 pm

plumbers wrote:Yes a lot of what you say is correct Parrot new sit down toilets more air flights air conditioning Mcdonalds
utilities such as water wifi electric supplies.
Behind the scenes bad education corruption and ignorance and the poor staying poor.
I'd agree that in 10 years time the education system probably won't improve (or improve very much). And there'll still be corruption and poor people. Trash'll still be on the side of the roads and dogs'll still roam the streets. The war between reds and yellows probably won't be resolved and police will probably still accept cash when offered. People will still occasionally get food poisoned and poor people will occasionally lose the ragged shirt off of their back.
But in the end, the only thing I can see on the horizon that would lead to diminished living standards in the next 10 years would be Thaitanic II. But of course, that could happen anywhere....as it did in the US/UK/Spain/Italy/Greece/Ireland/etc in 2008.

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Post by Jello » February 21, 2014, 9:35 pm

parrot wrote:
plumbers wrote:Yes a lot of what you say is correct Parrot new sit down toilets more air flights air conditioning Mcdonalds
utilities such as water wifi electric supplies.
Behind the scenes bad education corruption and ignorance and the poor staying poor.
I'd agree that in 10 years time the education system probably won't improve (or improve very much). And there'll still be corruption and poor people. Trash'll still be on the side of the roads and dogs'll still roam the streets. The war between reds and yellows probably won't be resolved and police will probably still accept cash when offered. People will still occasionally get food poisoned and poor people will occasionally lose the ragged shirt off of their back.
But in the end, the only thing I can see on the horizon that would lead to diminished living standards in the next 10 years would be Thaitanic II. But of course, that could happen anywhere....as it did in the US/UK/Spain/Italy/Greece/Ireland/etc in 2008.
I agree.
The standard of living includes factors such as income, quality and availability of employment, class disparity, poverty rate, quality and affordability of housing, hours of work required to purchase necessities, gross domestic product, inflation rate, number of holiday days per year, affordable (or free) access to quality healthcare, quality and availability of education, life expectancy, incidence of disease, cost of goods and services, infrastructure, national economic growth, economic and political and stability, political and religious freedom, environmental quality, climate and safety.

The “Quality of Life” issues have improved....for those that can afford it. But has the living standard of the lower economic classes improved? I don't think so. I see a lot more monied people living in Udon now, but all the poor people are still here too. I don't see that their living standard is improving at the same rate as the rapid growth here in Udon.

The bottom line of the OP's question is:
I think this matters as it affects decisions where Thai members of our families live.
I'd say if they have the ability to, they have better chances of making their fortune in a western country than here.
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Post by Astana » February 21, 2014, 9:36 pm

If the last ten years are to go by you might well be right, nothing much has changed but things have got that much more spiteful particularly in the political arena.

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Post by Khun Paul » February 22, 2014, 5:11 am

The bottom line is yes coupled with some reservations. education, Infrastructure upgrades , political stability are just some of the problems facing this country which need to be overcome to move forward. One could list endless things that are bad, but with the weather being good most of the time, cost of living relatively acceptable ( not expensive ) . Immigration problems easing almost monthly with upgrades to their systems , life generally is good to excellent. I am finding that even State agencies and major agencies like water/electric , are starting to listen to a foreigner when he complains instead of a ' This is Thailand ' attitude a pleasant change, it is worth almost complaining now providing you do it constructively.

All is and will continue to improve that is a fact I am sure, how fast is ion the lap of the Gods, there will be upsets and pitfalls, but the media is showing them what they can get and what they want, one way of the other it will be achieved

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Post by bumper » February 22, 2014, 8:11 am

Hmmm!!!!!!!!!! Had to go back and look at the title of this again, no indication of farrang or Thai. As little a eight years ago you wanted to go chat ion your native language you went to Steve's, Harry's or TJ's that was it. It had it's upside waling through Robinson the only mall at the time. You almost felt like a rock star, If you saw a foreigner you would take the time to chat. Might not see another one for a week.

Very common for the downtown area to flood several times each year.

The common practice was if you wanted foreign food you traveled to Bangkok to get it.

On the Thai side of life I only have house keepers side on of life to go by. They have three motorcycles now one for the daughter going to high school. they own two farms and their own home. are they accumulating wealth beyond that, no. They have no concept of how to handle money and that wouldn't change if they had more of it.

Health care the 30 baht program is still in effect. There are private schools an more educational opportunities, then before.

To work the farms they seldom use Water buffaloes anymore. If they don't have a tractor they rent one.

So when I look at that family and what they own, their net worth is more then mine. The only thing I have that they don't have is a car.

Politics not going change in out lifetime. But the Thai's for the most part have the system they currently want.

I assure that the roads have improved I have been riding 11 years. Nong Bua Lampho very close to four lanes the entire route. indications that I see that will some day extend to Loie.

I have to agree with Parrot, if the other things are that important to you. planed fly on both directions. You want the U'S' standards you can get them if you can afford to live in the right neighborhood. Never forget the U.S. has slums with just as much trash and stray dogs running around. There are still areas in the States where cops take bribe's.

You Banpuchi came to try to live here, he didn't like a lot of the things that are mentioned here, He didn't complain about it, he moved back to Texas where he did like things. I respect that.

So far the Udon has improved by leaps and bounds. The next ten years will have it's ups and downs. But if history is any indicator things will improve over the next ten years.

If I couldn't handle it and couldn't be happy here I would move. I moved her for reasons I wasn't happy with my life in the states. My quality of life here is far beyond anything I could have accomplished in the states and worked six days a week there. I don't work here I have time to do things like sit here and write on a forum. The reasons Ieft are still there. I never forget that.

There is quality health care in Thailand why do you think we have so many people travel from their home countries to get medical care here. I have a good health care plan costs me about a 100K baht a year, But, that is less then I would be paying in the states.

Is it perfect no it's not. But it's home and I'm grateful for it.
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Post by thaiguzzi » February 22, 2014, 9:58 am

semperfiguy wrote:GT93, I guess it all depends on what you consider "standards of living". If you are referring to:

1. Cleaner water and air
2. Less dogs
3. Less rubbish scattered around
4. Better hygienic conditions in eateries
5. Less noise
6. Better drivers
7. An improvement in manners and etiquette
8. Better attitudes toward foreigners
9. Better construction standards
10. Better infrastructure
11. Less toxic food products
12. Cheaper fuel
13. Better healthcare

My answer would be no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no...come back in 10 years and all you will see is more of the same in Udon...if not worse!
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Post by Jello » February 22, 2014, 11:34 am

bumper wrote:Had to go back and look at the title of this again, no indication of farrang or Thai.
From the OP:
GT93 wrote:I would have thought "yes" is the answer to each question but would be interested in others thoughts. I think this matters as it affects decisions where Thai members of our families live.
I agree with Bumper & KP that Thailands a great place for guys like us who have already made our money or have a decent monthly pension coming in. Quality of life for us and Thai's who have money have improved and most likely will continue to improve.

But, can a young man starting out with nothing reach the same economic level as us while living in Thailand? Maybe, but not likely.
Just one factor as a example-
Thailand minimum wage: 300Baht per day
California minimum wage: $10. per hour (2600Baht per day)
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Post by maaka » February 22, 2014, 1:34 pm

In answer to the question I will answer NO.
The rich are getting richer, and poor are getting poorer worldwide IMO
I think all these countries up in arms points to that, and Thai farmers heading to BKK...
Sure things have improve since my arrival in 1973.. The wooden house has been replaced by the concrete model, but my ' family ' are still dirt poor farmers, dressed in rags, havent got a car, mama died in the lounge because they couldnt afford hospital care, or the continual medicines for her,, sure my flame is building her new concrete home ( which I might post pics soon ) but even I as a longtime bushman used to living in a double garage, will struggle to live in it..if it wasnt for the daughter working in Taiwan and sending money back, they would be struggling even more..they have got power and a scooter and a cell phone, tv, but still at the lower end of the scale..

I am also a climate change worry wart..I told the NZ Ministry for the Environment ten years ago, that in 20yrs we would be fighting for our lives, due to climate change..and the way I look at it, things are snowballing quiet fast now..in ten years time I see huge changes..here in NZ we have lost half our bee population. no bees, no pollination, no crops..

Thailand havent got a wide diversity of crops...Rice is the major, and if that was to suffer from a plight, or temperture increase, or whatever, half the country would be out of work..

The ASEAN UNION coming soon might lift living standards, but it might also bring in foreign workers from Burma, China and India who will do things cheaper...I just have this feeling that things dont always keep going up..there is a downside as well to any equation...I hope I am proved wrong

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Post by marjamlew » February 22, 2014, 2:58 pm

I think it goes back to the debate about modernisation and development. In the 19 years since I was first in Udon and Khon Kaen there has been modernisation. But in education, healthcare, welfare, government services and general treatment and attitude towards the have nots there has been little change or improvement.
My wife sewed shirts for 10b each in sweat shop in Lopburi before she came to Australia. Tomorrow (Sunday) she will make $43 an hour cleaning hotel rooms.
So for a non hiso Thai working in a western country offers great opportunity.
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Post by pimples » February 22, 2014, 4:53 pm

given the opportunity most of isaan would be on the first plane out of the country to somewhere they could earn some reasonable money ,as he said the gulf between rich and poor gets wider every day ,and you cant see any wealthy Thais donating their wealth and becoming philanthropists for the good of their fellow countrymen and countrywomen .
they would rather trample their faces into the soil ,they despise them so much .i have never seen so much hatred by the rich to the poor .you would have to look back to the days of the French revolution to see similar parallels

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Post by Jello » February 22, 2014, 8:15 pm

TDRI: Income gap widens despite populist outpouring
Thailand’s current fiscal policies have failed to address income inequality and should be redirected from populist schemes to improving social welfare for the poor, says the Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI).

Even after the Finance Ministry’s restructuring of personal income tax brackets, the gap between rich and poor will not be reduced, said Somchai Jitsuchon, TDRI’s research director for inclusive development.

The rich-and-poor gap in Thailand is bigger than in similar-sized economies such as Colombia, Brazil, Malaysia and Indonesia.

In fact, Thailand is the only one of the above to see an increase in inequality in recent years, whereas the others saw a narrowing of the gap, said Mr Somchai.

Thailand, he said, is among the top countries in the world in terms of income disparity, with money concentrated in the hands of a small, wealthy group.

One problem is the misconception that all farmers are poor, resulting in policies catered to the wrong people,Mr Somchai said as part of a panel on the role of government in allocating financial resources.

According to TDRI research in 2011,out of 17.6 million farmers, only 7.7 million were considered poor.

Since then,35 billion baht from the current government’s rice-pledging scheme has benefited poor farmers, while 85 billion went to rice mills, exporters,politicians and large farms, said Mr Somchai.

Instead of subsidies, the budget could go to poor students, the elderly, children,worker training and increased social security benefits.

“So the belief that policies aimed at helping farmers will benefit the poor and eventually lower income inequality is an illusion,” said Mr Somchai.

He said populist policies, which are often seen in countries with high income inequality, are an obstacle to escaping the middle-income trap.

The TDRI yesterday proposed a new economic model based on improving innovation, technology, education and labour skills.

Thammasat University economics lecturer Pawin Siriprapanukul agreed with the TDRI, saying Thailand’s spending has not paid off in economic growth as much as it should have.

Though policies such as 30-baht health care and the village fund were effective,the first-car scheme and rice pledging were not, said Mr Pawin.

He suggested forming a Parliamentary Budget Office (PBO) as an independent and non-partisan group charged with analysing the government’s budget and financial policies and issuing economic forecasts.

The PBO would help reduce public debt and boost efficiency in spending.

Sasatra Sudsawasd, a lecturer at the National Institute of Development Administration, said the proposed PBO would improve transparency in official data and support development.

He said the emerging trend of public debt increases and out-of-budget borrowing would affect Thai economic growth in the long term.

____________________________

Source: Bangkok Post, 19 November 2013
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