Trouble for dual citizen wives?

Post by **milkman** » July 29, 2014, 4:09 pm

I heard there is a new law, where dual citizen wives (say American and Thai) of foreigners who show their Thai passports as they leave the country will have their Thai citizenship taken away! If true, this would be a big problem for those of us whose wives own land in Thailand, as only Thais are allowed to own land. Anybody know anything about this?

Post by **dingdong** » July 29, 2014, 4:56 pm

How would they know you had an American Passport if you only showed them you Thai one on the way out?

Post by **papaguido** » July 29, 2014, 5:33 pm

Probably just an old rumor that's been floating around for years. In accordance with the Nationality Act: Thailand’s Nationality Act B.E. 2508 as amended by Acts B.E. 2535 No. 2 and 3 (1992).

Unless the wife renounces her Thai nationality...

Chapter 2. Loss of Thai Nationality.

Section 13. A woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire the nationality of her husband according to the nationality law of her husband, shall, if she desires to renounce Thai nationality, make a declaration of her intention before the competent official according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

http://burmalibrary.org/docs3/THAILAND% ... ty_Act.htm

Post by **milkman** » July 29, 2014, 5:47 pm

The problem seems to be with dual citizen wives who enter Thailand on a Thai passport. When they leave to fly back to America, they have no visa for America on their Thai passport, so they show their American passports as well. I'm told that in the future with this new law, when they do this, Thailand will cancel their Thai citizenship. If this is true (and I'm hoping you lads can verify this and give more details) our wives should ONLY show our American passports (or English, EU, Aussie, etc. passports) coming and going.

Post by **merchant seaman** » July 29, 2014, 5:52 pm

Some years ago when a Thai female married a foreigner she lost her right to own land. One reason many would not take their husbands surname. This law has since been replead but I'm not sure of the date.

Post by **milkman** » July 29, 2014, 5:57 pm

Papaguido and merchant seaman, much as I respect you both (and I've been reading your comments for years) this is an entirely separate issue, unrelated from what you wrote.

Post by **papaguido** » July 29, 2014, 6:07 pm

Nothing reported on ThaiVisa and it's the first place I look for confirmation. Until I see an official amendment to the law I'm not going to worry about.

Post by **milkman** » July 29, 2014, 6:22 pm

I heard it from a government official. It's unfortunately true, but I'd like more details. Anyone?

Post by **parrot** » July 29, 2014, 7:03 pm

No offense to the op's question, but "who did you hear it from?" If it's from someone who has first-hand experience, that's one thing. If it's from someone who heard it from someone who heard it......that's another.
I know there are lots of people who fit this category.....and I've not heard anyone have a problem. Likewise, Thaivisa, which has a much wider audience......nothing.

Post by **milkman** » July 29, 2014, 7:40 pm

I know a government official and heard it from that person. Not free to back up what I heard by naming that person, sorry. Did hear it's a new law, but just how new I don't know. I consider it a threat to the property rights of many of us whose wives own the houses we live in, so decided to pass it on. But that's about all I know and all I have to contribute to this discussion. I'd be happy, though, if anyone can learn more, including that it's not true (which I consider unlikely as this official is not one to joke). If it is true, and true as I've portrayed it, easy to avoid this problem by having our wives use their new American (UK, etc.) passports coming and going from Thailand.

Post by **can123** » July 29, 2014, 7:49 pm

A Thai wife owns land by virtue of her Thai citizenship. Having a passport, issued by any country, or not is of no importance at all. Immigration officials cannot strip individuals of their nationality.

Post by **Earnest** » July 30, 2014, 12:52 am

I imagine most Thai wives living in Blighty will have an Indefinite Stay Visa in their Thai passports. We were advised that we keep the expired Thai passport with the British visa in it and show it with the current Thai passport when entering and leaving UK and by default,Thailand. That a person holds dual nationality is no business of anyone's in my view.

Post by **can123** » July 30, 2014, 1:03 am

The "permanent leave to remain status" relates only to a non-UK passport. My wife is a British citizen and has two passports because of her dual nationality. A degree of discipline is required when travelling between the UK and Thailand as some who cannot be bothered to wait in a queue will use different passports for each leg of the trip. This is silly because eventually some official will query the absence of a relevant stamp on one passport or the other. So, a Thai wife who holds two passports should use only one so as to make things simple. Both passports should be carried but only one given to immigration staff.

Obviously a Thai wife who only holds a Thai passport with a "permanent leave to remain" stamp in it has to use her only passport.

Post by **Stantheman** » July 30, 2014, 8:57 am

Not sure about "in the future" but wife just left Thailand last week and immigration did not look for visa to U.S. as they have an automated system to exit for Thai passport holders (she has dual citizenship). She showed her U.S. passport at Airline check-in(Thai air) only when leaving. You must remember Thai immigration (just like U.S. immigration) could care less about visa for entering other countries and airlines check for visa/passport as they would be responsible for return flight if passenger arrived without proper paperwork.

Post by **milkman** » August 3, 2014, 7:48 pm

I got a little bit of clarification: It seems there is no new law, but the government has decided, as in so many other cases, to start enforcing a law that was already on the books but had not been enforced. I don't know exactly what the current law says about holding dual nationalities, though a friend with children tells me that when his kids turn a certain age (18, 21- I really don't remember), they'll have to choose between being Thai or American citizens, and they'll have to give up the other. Could it be that Thailand doesn't allow adults who marry to be dual citizens either, but just wasn't enforcing this rule- until now?

That's all I know. My Thai wife isn't especially affected as she always arrives and leaves with her American passport only. But losing Thai citizenship is a big deal as then you can't own land, so if anybody learns more, I hope you'll share what you learn, including that none of this is true (which would be my wish).

Post by **merchant seaman** » August 3, 2014, 8:06 pm

Former Prime Minister of Thailand had both British and Thai passport.

Post by **milkman** » August 3, 2014, 8:20 pm

I googled "Thaksin passport 2014" and got this: https://www.google.co.th/?gws_rd=cr,ssl ... sport+2014 Looks like he's got passports from Montenegro- wherever that is- Nicaragua, and Thailand. Always possible he's got a British passport as well, I wouldn't put it past him. Not sure this means Thailand will allow our wives to have two - or even three!- citizenships. Thaksin may be the exception, not the rule.

Post by **BobHelm** » August 3, 2014, 8:29 pm

It was not him that MS was referring to milkman...

Post by **ajsp9** » August 3, 2014, 8:29 pm

papaguido wrote:Probably just an old rumor that's been floating around for years. In accordance with the Nationality Act: Thailand’s Nationality Act B.E. 2508 as amended by Acts B.E. 2535 No. 2 and 3 (1992).

Unless the wife renounces her Thai nationality...

Chapter 2. Loss of Thai Nationality.

Section 13. A woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire the nationality of her husband according to the nationality law of her husband, shall, if she desires to renounce Thai nationality, make a declaration of her intention before the competent official according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.
http://burmalibrary.org/docs3/THAILAND% ... ty_Act.htm

Post by **papaguido** » August 3, 2014, 9:33 pm

milkman wrote:I got a little bit of clarification: It seems there is no new law, but the government has decided, as in so many other cases, to start enforcing a law that was already on the books but had not been enforced. I don't know exactly what the current law says about holding dual nationalities, though a friend with children tells me that when his kids turn a certain age (18, 21- I really don't remember), they'll have to choose between being Thai or American citizens, and they'll have to give up the other. Could it be that Thailand doesn't allow adults who marry to be dual citizens either, but just wasn't enforcing this rule- until now?

That's all I know. My Thai wife isn't especially affected as she always arrives and leaves with her American passport only. But losing Thai citizenship is a big deal as then you can't own land, so if anybody learns more, I hope you'll share what you learn, including that none of this is true (which would be my wish).

Once again...

Chapter 2. Loss of Thai Nationality.

Section 13. A woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire the nationality of her husband according to the nationality law of her husband, shall, if she desires to renounce Thai nationality, make a declaration of her intention before the competent official according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

"if she desires to"..."not is required to" (unlike the wording in section 14). As I read it, it's her choice to retain Thai citizenship or renounce.