Udon Red Shirts

by **Khun Paul** » May 3, 2010, 9:57 pm

Oh goody...... more for the slaughter, eminds me of lemmings or lambs to the slaughter, whatever this is just an ongoing senseless situation in which the only winners will be ....WHO, now I am not sure but the Losers are the Thai nation and their credibility with the rest of the world....not that they seem to be too worried about that anyway....as they are Thai and THIS IS THAILAND as we are often told................!

by **KHONDAHM** » May 4, 2010, 6:26 am

jackspratt wrote:
fdimike wrote:Khondahm

I'm not sure I follow you. Maybe you could elaborate a bit for the rest of us slower individuals.

Even better, do some research first.

Indulge us all with your omniscience. How many popular votes have there been since Thaksin won his first term? How many of those votes did the red shirts win? How many did the now ruling yellow shirts win? [excepting of course that they were not previously known has yellows or reds]

Violence notwithstanding (because who is culpable is debatable and not yet fact), how are the demonstrations and civil disobedience any different from what the yellows did? One can make the arguement that reds have yet to go to the extreme of shutting down the airport and thus stranding visitors and strangling commerce so severely. Occupying a few blocks of downtown business district makes great copy, but in reality is an inconvenience at most for the majority of companies operating there.

by **Laan Yaa Mo** » May 4, 2010, 6:37 am

Khon Dahm, the point you always conveniently forget is that Thaksin and the other victories by his supporters were minority governments that relied on support from other parties to hold on to power. Perhaps because you are American you cannot grasp this point. But, it is very common in countries that got the 19th century British constitution (you got the 18th century version, Robert Walpole, old corruption and all that), and in Europe.

When these coalitions fall apart others can be formed which is what happened to the government prior to this one.

Like you, I would like to forget the facts and concentrate on the reds having been cheated out of their government. The fact is that the current government is legitimate.

by **Khun Paul** » May 4, 2010, 7:26 am

Hear hear Tilokarat, legitimate and to my mind doing a damm good job, hindered by the attitude of so many in authority in the security forces, I quote a young soldier quoted today in the Nation I think, I don't want to kill people, so I wont carry on in the Army. This is basically the crux of the matter, while you have a conscription Army you will NOT get professionalism hence the problems with them as for the Police enuff said.......corrupt ...corrupt ...corrupt.
As for the Costitutions the british have never had nor ever will have a constitution, just a small point.

by **jackspratt** » May 4, 2010, 7:30 am

Thaksin's party (who I guess you describe as the "reds") first competed in an election in 2001 as Thai Rak Thai. They won 40.6% of the vote (which translated into 248 seats), and the Dems 26.6% (128 seats) in a 500 seat parliament. You may note the lack of majority in either votes or seats, thereby requiring a coalition.

In 2005, TRT won 60.7% (375 seats) against the Dems 18.3% (96 seats) of the 500 seats. A clear majority, and no coalition required.

In 2006 the Dems (and all other minor parties) boycotted the election, called some 4 years early, and purely as an effective referendum on Thaksin's shonky (ie tax free) sale of his Shin Corp to Temasek in Singapore. Of the votes cast, TRT won 61.1% (460 seats), and the No vote (ie those who voted, but marked their paper as "abstain") 37.9% (0 seats).

In the 2007 election (held after the 2006 farce was overturned by the Constitutional Court, and the subsequent coup), PTP ( the successor of TRT which been disbanded by the courts) won 40% (233 seats), and the Dems 40% (165 seats) in a 480 seat parliament. (The voting %s have been rounded off, because there was direct and constituency voting). Again, no majority (votes or seats) and a coalition was required with the minor parties who held the balance of 80 odd seats.

In the first government (Samak) and second (Somchai) these minor parties went with PTP, and they formed a coalition government. In December 08, enough of the minor parties swung over to the Dems for them to have a majority in the Parliament, and thus form the current government (with Abhisit as PM).

See - omniscience not required - just a bit of research (easily accessible), a willingness to take off your blinkers, and an understanding that not all voting systems are the same as the US.

And a bit more research would reveal that the Dems and yellow shirts are not one and the same. In fact the yellow shirts have now formed their own political party, and will run against the Dems and the "reds" in the next election, which I understand Abhisit has just announced for 14 November. =D>

by **bumper** » May 4, 2010, 7:51 am

My hope is it is not rejected they have already rejected a six month offer once. Was the pot sweetened enough, guess we are about to find out.

Reds have the votes to pull this off.

by **bumper** » May 4, 2010, 8:02 am

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/20 ... 28499.html

Read the article yourself I see wording in it that does not help, not a time to ruffle feathers. Thai's are Thai's and they demand respect no matter what. The other articles I read were much more gentle in their approach.

Someone is wrong as to the freedom of the press, I don't know which.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/ ... 58/1/.html

by **parrot** » May 4, 2010, 8:27 am

Life would be so much easier for the PM (and various UM posters) if Thailand would simply can their current political system and institute an easier-to-understand one, such as we have in the US. I mean, even the Brits candidates are debating on TV these days!

by **jackspratt** » May 4, 2010, 8:58 am

parrot wrote:Life would be so much easier for the PM (and various UM posters) if Thailand would simply can their current political system and institute an easier-to-understand one, such as we have in the US.

FMD - that would send the country bankrupt in about 5 minutes.

by **Laan Yaa Mo** » May 4, 2010, 9:24 am

Thanks for the corrections about the non-existent British constitution (Khun Paul), and Thaksin's majority (Khun Jack).

by **KHONDAHM** » May 4, 2010, 8:01 pm

jackspratt wrote:Thaksin's party (who I guess you describe as the "reds") first competed in an election in 2001 as Thai Rak Thai. They won 40.6% of the vote (which translated into 248 seats), and the Dems 26.6% (128 seats) in a 500 seat parliament. You may note the lack of majority in either votes or seats, thereby requiring a coalition.

In 2005, TRT won 60.7% (375 seats) against the Dems 18.3% (96 seats) of the 500 seats. A clear majority, and no coalition required.

In 2006 the Dems (and all other minor parties) boycotted the election, called some 4 years early, and purely as an effective referendum on Thaksin's shonky (ie tax free) sale of his Shin Corp to Temasek in Singapore. Of the votes cast, TRT won 61.1% (460 seats), and the No vote (ie those who voted, but marked their paper as "abstain") 37.9% (0 seats).

In the 2007 election (held after the 2006 farce was overturned by the Constitutional Court, and the subsequent coup), PTP ( the successor of TRT which been disbanded by the courts) won 40% (233 seats), and the Dems 40% (165 seats) in a 480 seat parliament. (The voting %s have been rounded off, because there was direct and constituency voting). Again, no majority (votes or seats) and a coalition was required with the minor parties who held the balance of 80 odd seats.

In the first government (Samak) and second (Somchai) these minor parties went with PTP, and they formed a coalition government. In December 08, enough of the minor parties swung over to the Dems for them to have a majority in the Parliament, and thus form the current government (with Abhisit as PM).

See - omniscience not required - just a bit of research (easily accessible), a willingness to take off your blinkers, and an understanding that not all voting systems are the same as the US.

And a bit more research would reveal that the Dems and yellow shirts are not one and the same. In fact the yellow shirts have now formed their own political party, and will run against the Dems and the "reds" in the next election, which I understand Abhisit has just announced for 14 November.

Thank you very much for the info. Yes, I concede that I could do the research, but I am not THAT interested. Better to see if I can goad you into posting the facts, which I do appreciate sincerely. Clears up a few things, too. That's why I like reading your posts even if I don't always agree with your position.

Actually, I just like to gawk at your avatar. :mrgreen:

by **jackspratt** » May 4, 2010, 9:42 pm

Bl00dy lazy Yanks!

by **udonuk1** » May 13, 2010, 12:00 pm

Khun Paul wrote:As for the Costitutions the british have never had nor ever will have a constitution, just a small point.

The English Magna Carta was virtually the same as a constitution, many constutional laws associated with it are still active today eg habeas corpus. These laws have spread throughout British former colonies (including ones that had tea parties) and throughout the word. Just a small point :lol:

by **Khun Paul** » May 13, 2010, 3:42 pm

The English Magna Carta was virtually the same as a constitution, end of quote,
I agree it seems the same however it was an undertaking by a kjing to his lords, everyone else was left out ..So it is NOT a constitution what we have is common law passed down over centuries upon which many laws have now been made an act of parliament .
Common law is still prevalent today as much as it was when it became common law.
having a written constitution ensures all sides adhere to the rules.laws and regulations it contains, in this country however they seem to flout most of them with impunity.

by **FrazeeDK** » May 13, 2010, 4:26 pm

It was Thai Rak Thai (TRT) which was dissolved, followed by People's Power Party (PPP) with Samak followed by Somchai as PM's then PPP dissolved followed by the current Puea Thai (PT) party.. You can bet after elections various election fraud charges and counter-charges will be filed that probably will get PT dissolved and we'll be back on the same treadmill again..

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