UK Envoy Q+A for expats in Thailand

by **marshbags** » December 23, 2011, 8:04 am

Well my reaction to this is unprintable but to keep it clean what a load of bollows.

If anyone is clearer after this interview on Uk policy to expats from the UK, and it,s predictable fobbed off replies and non committal to really appreciating the many difficulties we face. (IMHO ) please enlighten me.

The one relating to expats, serious illness and the fact that paying taxes for many years ect and indeed still paying them, we are unelligible do not qualify, while at the same time anyone entering the UK and who stays there is classed as acceptable....WTF

This is the relevant Q+A to this important issue.

QuoteRalph Millington

-I am an expat here in Thailand. If I find I have cancer or need heart surgery, both are out of the reach of affordable insurance, can I return to the UK for medical aid and will I be charged for this? I am a UK passport holder but have lived and worked here for 10 years.

Answer: Please look at this link for fuller information.

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Enti ... /DH_074374

This is a relevant extract:

Anyone who is deemed to be ordinarily resident in the UK is entitled to free NHS hospital treatment in England. "Ordinarily resident" is a common law concept interpreted by the House of Lords in 1982 as someone who is living lawfully in the United Kingdom voluntarily and for settled purposes as part of the regular order of their life for the time being, with an identifiable purpose for their residence here which has a sufficient degree of continuity to be properly described as settled.

Anyone who is not ordinarily resident is subject to the National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations 2011. These regulations place a responsibility on NHS hospitals to establish whether a person is ordinarily resident; or exempt from charges under one of a number of exemption categories; or liable for charges.

What about British Nationals? I have paid taxes in the past.

Nationality or past or present payments of UK taxes and National Insurance contributions are not taken into consideration when establishing residence. The only thing relevant is whether you ordinarily live in the UK.

Of course we are aware of ways around this, but only if we are economical with the truth and do not officially notify the B.Emb. of being here is one example.

Again WTF

For the complete article please go to url :-

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/nationa ... 72450.html

Marshbags :shock:

and angry at his comments and total non committal on several important issues, but then again we should be used to this when dealing with the B.Emb. who our taxes pay for them to act on our behalf and are diificult and do not empathise with our problems.

by **marshbags** » December 23, 2011, 8:19 am

The last paragraph starting " Of course we are aware " ect. has also been included in the quote in red when it should not be, sorry if it mislead anyone.

It is a personal observation on how to possibly get around the system and get our just paid for entitlements

Thank you

:-"

by **BobHelm** » December 23, 2011, 8:41 am

I have removed that last sentence from the red font colour for you, marshbags...

Sadly you cannot blame the Envoy in Thailand for his replies, he is merely quoting the 'party line' from the Government in the UK.

As far as I am aware, this is what the Government wish to be the law & so have foisted these arbitrary rules onto the relevant heath authorities who then have a legal obligation to try & enforce 'rules' that have no legal foundation.
The Government are not worried as they have satisfied the more conservative members of their party by passing the buck to the Health Authorities. The Health Authorities have the issue as they have serious legal issues if they actually try & enforce charges to a UK citizen who just does not feel that they should be responsible for something that they have financially contributed to.

Even worse is that the decision to charge & the amounts to be charged are actually calculated after the treatment has taken place, without the patient actually knowing that he will be charged & what charges he is actually incurring for each piece of treatment. This prevents the patient from making informed financial decisions as to what treatments & remedies are available until after the event.

Much of what the Government is trying to do in these cases runs contrary to existing & long standing legal standards - especially around the law of contract. It is, after all, finally to do with what 'contract' exists between the Health Authority & the patient as to what charges can be made. It is also to do with what contract still exists between people who have contributed to the funding of the Health system in the past & their current rights.

The Government, in typical style, has not attempted to address these issues, just given the Health Authorities a list of guidelines that it wants them to enforce.

If those guidelines are actually enforceable requires a legal case & one which is taken to the Highest Court possible, which, for all its' decriers, is now in Europe & outside the direct influence of the UK Government.

If a Health Authority gives an expat patient a complete run down of costs that will be uncured before treatment starts then, sadly, that is a completely different matter. In that case the patient either has to pay up or sue the Health Authority in an attempt to prove that his legal rights are being infringed. That would be a major financial undertaking for most & that fact is what the Government is relying on.

To anyone who finds himself in need of health care while in the UK I can only say that it is best to offer as little information as necessary in order to undergo diagnosis & treatment. DO NOT LIE, that is certainly illegal & would leave you very exposed if legal events occur. but never offer more than is legally required of you, either in writing or verbally.
However, every individual is perfectly entitled to change their mind on where they see themselves living tomorrow & indeed, how they viewed their living arrangements in the past.

by **trubrit** » December 23, 2011, 9:17 am

By coincidence I received a letter from the Inland Revenue yesterday that owing to a miscalculation(Theirs not mine) I have underpaid tax for the year ending Apr 2011 of 914 pounds. How would I like to pay it? Cheeky buggers. I remember reading about there miscalculation a few months ago, but really didn't think it would involve me.Presumably as my income hasn't altered from last year I will have underpaid another 914 for this .1,828 quid for there stupid error .Then I read the previous post. :evil:

by **marshbags** » December 23, 2011, 6:18 pm

Thanks for changing the restoring it to black for me Bob.

Being economical with the truth that I referred to means exactly what you suggest.

Do not volunteer any information other than the minimum required and asked for.

No need to tell lies and possibly get into difficulties, being vague, stupid and confused in appearance will most certainly help you.

As TB is pointing out they restrict health benefits ect. while still taxing incomes.

Presumably they justify this by saying the earnings are based in the UK therefore tax is deductable at UK rates.

What I cannot get my head around is the health restrictions which are seemingly based on questionable government rules ect.

The tax deducted is surely going into the pot to help offset the various running costs of the country, yet those classed as non residents are still expected to pay....... for what and to who,s benefit, obviously not expats barred from even basic health charges, never mind the serious stuff.

Talk about having your cake and eating it, it,s about time fair and just due consideration was applied or at the very least exemption from tax.

A pensioner who has always worked in full time employment will have paid 40 odd years in dues via tax and insurance deductions ect. but this doesn,t count for nothing in todays society.

marshbags :mad:

and still very miffed off

UK Envoy Q+A for expats in Thailand