US Congresswoman shot

by **Fahlep Yai** » January 11, 2011, 6:09 am

BobHelm wrote:how does that differ from the viewpoint that a Muslim fundamentalist terrorist holds???

that is one ridiculous comparison. muslim fundamental terrorists want to eliminate all infidels by whatever means. americans want to keep their guns because it is their right. since beliefs are personal i would say that is the only similarity in your question.

let me clue all you euros in on something. most americans think that the typical euro mentality is arrogant, weak, wimpy, limp wristed and always pointing fingers at america due to jealousy. your comments in this thread just brings that out more. most americans think you were fools to give up your guns because you dont even have the ability to protect yourselves and your private property. we also wonder why your governments want to keep our military there over 50 years after ww2? when will you defend yourselves? if you asked us to leave we would. most americans believe there is no way that you will know what is best for america because you didnt even choose to do what is best for yourselves.

most americans are not concerned with pleasing euros. our gun laws are a domestic issue, not a foreign policy issue. time to stop your whining, mind your own business and get your own houses in order before euro-muslim nations become muslim-euro nations. leave america to americans because most americans dont care about what you do to yourselves in your own countries. it is your business.

by **tigerryan** » January 11, 2011, 7:38 am

I applied for and received a concealed carry permit last year in Colorado, I was a bit concerned that the laws might change and it would be harder to obtain. I rarely actually carried concealed it's just to bulky and uncomfortable ( I don't like small anything)and frankly I shoulder a great deal of responsibilty with the privlage and it just a little bit to much like work, on other hand I always have a rifle and handgun in my vehicle.
I have sent pallet loads of ammunition down range and have received some of the best training availble while serving in the Army receiving training and doing things the local coppers would salavate over. Im confident that when I am stateside my community is a safer place when Im around, and my Sherriff agrees.
I dont really place to much stock in the crime statistics. I think you really need to dig deeper a lot of the crime happens on the wrong side of the tracks and its just sort of a self cleaning oven in some places. America in places where people can read and write and have teeth is relativly locked down and safe. :pirate:

by **BobHelm** » January 11, 2011, 8:22 am

Fahlep Yai wrote:that is one ridiculous comparison. muslim fundamental terrorists want to eliminate all infidels by whatever means. americans want to keep their guns because it is their right. since beliefs are personal i would say that is the only similarity in your question.

I said that the 'thought process' was the same. You continue to prove that is correct. All 'belief' & no rational.
Where is the logic or thought process in your belief that Americans want guns because it is 'their right' & that is enough. You continue to say your view is correct & yet cannot provide any facts or theories to justify why it is a point of view that has any merit what so ever. It is suppose to be correct simply because you say so. When confronted with any information that suggests your point of view is misguided you bury your head in the sand & pretend that facts are unimportant to the issue & decry the messenger as being un- American (or an infidel if you prefer). I think it is a very apt comparison.

By the way, there are currently estimated to be 7 million Muslims in the USA, so it is probably more Muslim than many of the "euro-muslim nations" you refer to.

we also wonder why your governments want to keep our military there over 50 years after ww2? when will you defend yourselves

Shows a quite fundamental misunderstanding of either history or any available facts. 'Our Governments' have been trying to get rid of the European American based troops for some considerable time. The troops are there to fulfil some specific American rational & nothing to do with 'protecting' Europe. The European people just have to fund & pay for them that is all. You really need to get your ideas & information from somewhere else than the Tea Party garbage that Mr. Murdoch passes out as news.
If indeed it is as you say & American troops are heroically repelling invaders from European shores then maybe you can quote the number of American servicemen on active duty, killed by the enemy in Europe in the last 50 years..

by **Galee** » January 11, 2011, 8:31 am

Why does it accept an annual murder rate by guns that is 13 times that of Germany and 44 times that of England and Wales? People tend to remember the low points, such as the assassinations of Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy in 1968. But do they know that since those two men hit the floor, more than a million people have been killed in the US from the barrel of a gun?

The above is an extract from the following article.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ja ... e-loughner

by **snowball** » January 11, 2011, 8:59 am

I am American and own guns.

tigerryan I can relate to a bit. Out where law enforcement is sparse he is a bit like an extension of law enforcement. Unfortunately, I don't think that model translates to a big city environment. In a large metropolis the "self cleaning oven" often pops open uncontrollably.

I'd prefer to live in a country where there were no guns, as there are plenty of other hobbies to take up that have less
of a downside to them then target practice. Perhaps I did not watch enough Bonanza as a kid.

The argument that the population holding guns keeps the government under control does not even seem to hold water these days. Most western democracies seem to keep a tighter reign on their governments than the US, without the
population being armed to the teeth.

Unfortunately, with the rhetoric that has been presented by some Americans on this thread shows, there is no hope
in hell that the US will change its laws. At a national level anyway. As is the case with many subjects, the appeal
is to silly statements like "guns don't kill people, people kill people." That is the level of discourse within America these
days I am afraid to tell you. One thing I am sure of is, that calling people childish names like "euro-muslim" doesn't make for a good argument, nor do Ad-populum arguments. The book "Idiot America" is spot on unfortunately.

by **Fahlep Yai** » January 11, 2011, 9:22 am

snowball wrote:One thing I am sure of is, that calling people childish names like "euro-muslim" doesn't make for a good argument, nor do Ad-populum arguments. The book "Idiot America" is spot on unfortunately.

the reading understanding is deplorable here. no one was called a euro-muslim. i referred to euro-muslim nations and addressed people as euros. i guess you missed all the name calling that was done before that. you must be very selective in which words you understand. and then you make reference to "idiot america". i guess it is okay for you to call someone names who has only stated that americans want their guns, will not give them up and dont care what others think. whine on, snowball.

by **BobHelm** » January 11, 2011, 9:42 am

Snowball is quite clearly not calling anyone names & is referring to a book, fully entitled

Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free

by American author Charles P. Pierce.
I fully agree with your statement

the reading understanding is deplorable here

by **jackspratt** » January 11, 2011, 9:43 am

So what exactly does "Muslim" have to do with this debate, FY?

What was your motive in introducing it?

by **Fahlep Yai** » January 11, 2011, 9:53 am

you love to change the topic when things arent going well for you.

BobHelm wrote:When confronted with any information that suggests your point of view is misguided you bury your head in the sand & pretend that facts are unimportant to the issue & decry the messenger as being un- American (or an infidel if you prefer). I think it is a very apt comparison.

when was any information presented to me that stated that americans did not want their guns and that they think that guns should be outlawed? i am not doubting any of the crime statistics that have been used here and i didnt dispute any of them. i have only stated that they dont matter because americans want their guns and will not give them up. learn to read please.

You really need to get your ideas & information from somewhere else than the Tea Party garbage that Mr. Murdoch passes out as news..

quite immature on your part if you are still a moderator here. [-X

i have never talked about either one. but i have watched you take sides. and now you choose to speak for other forum members and state what they meant. you are marvelous. :roll:

okay. i am out. i have said my piece. the euros dont like it but too bad. there is not much they like about america and americans anyway. whine on, euros.

by **treehugger** » January 11, 2011, 9:56 am

Although both sides are quoting 'statistics' from their either anti-gun or pro-gun sources to show the number of gun related deaths, neither side has yet made the distinction between those deaths caused by legally held handguns and those by illegally held handguns. I believe that to be important.

I also do not think that you can compare USA with UK. Although we speak the same language we are not the same people and do not have the same culture or values.

by **BobHelm** » January 11, 2011, 10:10 am

So where did you get your misguided ideas about American troops in Europe from then Fahlep Yai?? You brought that up not I. It was one of the 'lines' trotted out by senior Tea Party members & erroneously repeated as fact by Fox News before the recent elections.
My views are my own & have nothing to do with moderation of the board...however your style of arguing without bothering to resort to any facts does remind me of a fellow countryman of yours who used to do similar on here before..
I am glad that you believe that you speak for all Americans. However, it is strange that when other Americans do not agree with your viewpoint that you need to resort to name calling, but personal abuse when you had lost the argument would appear to be your style.
All of which does nothing to resolve the particular case in question & the needless lives lost yet again because of a desire to protect 'rights' rather than 'lives'...

by **Fahlep Yai** » January 11, 2011, 10:31 am

So where did you get your misguided ideas about American troops in Europe from then Fahlep Yai?? there are no misguided ideas. i asked when the euros would defend themselves. It was one of the 'lines' trotted out by senior Tea Party members & erroneously repeated as fact by Fox News before the recent elections. i have no idea what the tea party or fox news discusses. i do not watch television. your style of arguing without bothering to resort to any facts i quoted a rasmussen poll that stated that 75% of americans believe they are entitled to own a gun. i have stated that americans want their guns and will not give them up. reading problems again? when other Americans do not agree with your viewpoint that you need to resort to name calling, who did i call a name? what did i call them?
because of a desire to protect 'rights' rather than 'lives'... rights protect lives in america, but you may whine on. no more time to waste with this euro silliness. time for me to prepare for my luncheon date in bahn poonyam. i may look in next week.

by **DermotC** » January 11, 2011, 10:40 am

FY, Many many more Muslims per capita in the States compared to Europe! So why do you call us Euro Muslim Nations? I can just see you in your cowboy hat and boots making America safer for the average citizen, hahahaha, what a joke!

The facts just dont support your arguements FY and as Im a realist and deal with the facts......... My country is 95% Christian, the same cant be said of America, not that theres anything wrong with that but maybe we can start calling America a Muslim American country, but that would be just silly!

by **BobHelm** » January 11, 2011, 10:52 am

Fahlep Yai wrote: rights protect lives in america,

Where are the facts that support that tripe Tex?? The reality of the situation is the exact opposite.

by **Zidane** » January 11, 2011, 11:02 am

Just a sad piece of information whilst Texpat reloads.....
Christina Taylor Green the 9 year old girl killed in the shooting was actually born on 9/11 and featured in a book-Faces of Hope,Babies Born on 9/11- about some of the children born on that day.
Hope this guy gets the death penalty,or even better,suffers a violent death in prison !

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