US Health Care Plan

rjj04,,, I don't think you can compare the 2 systems, the standard of living is completely different. There is a huge amount of overhead in the US system. Looking at just General Practioners; government paperwork and regulations, and insurance paperwork and regulations, along with Federal, state and local taxes (corporate, business, sales, etc,etc,), massive malpractice insurance premiums, huge medical education loan principal owed,,,,, and a very large office staff to handle all of the above (which generates it's own expense requirements and government regs to meet). Thai doctors just aren't subjected to the same costs. And most places in the US are tied together electronically and computers and office information and billing systems are costly. On top of all of the above, Doctors usually employ separate billing services, accounting firms and tax professionals. I probably haven't even scratched the surface.

It would be very difficult to compare the 2.

LoongLee wrote:Some, like myself, can not see the reasoning that we should give a huge percentage of the nation's economy over to the government to run. Their history and failure at running Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the Postal Service, AMTRAC, FreddieMac, FannieMae, or any other program boggles the mind. The recent "Nightmare on Wall Street" has proven they're totally unable to police and protect the public's money. And now we're supposed to trust them? We're talking about people that vote themselves raises in the middle of the night while people are losing homes, jobs, and living on the street. Oh Hell No!

This is at the crux of the issue. Americans realize that health care is expensive and that one catastrophic illness can bankrupt a family. There needs to be something in place -- a safety net -- for those occurrences and for those who don't have insurance and WANT it. Nothing else.

Additionally, the vast majority does not want the government in charge of any of it for the reasons cited above. The government does not do anything well.

I would like to add that I'm just not for scrapping the proposed health plan because it's a Democrat initative. Not at all. The Republicans bear some of the responsibility. They were in the majority for years and got nothing done on health care reform. I want, and I suspect most Americans do also, significant health care reform, things not addressed by the plan before congress.

The Democrats are taking a huge leap,,, by having absolutely no bi-partisanship involvement,, (something else Obama promised in his campaign) they are leaving themselves wide open to future disaster as a party if (when) the health care system bankrupts the country and doesn't provide all the hype. The creation of a huge new entitlement program with it's accompanying expectations is just one more pyramid scheme like Social Security. You simply can't give more and more entitlements while the pool of payers decreases. If a private company ran a system like the Social Security system (pyramid) they would be prosecuted and jailed.

The proposed plan is not wanted by the majority of Americans,,,, THEY WANT ATTENTION and PRIORITY PLACED UPON JOB CREATION.

LoongLee wrote:I would like to add that I'm just not for scrapping the proposed health plan because it's a Democrat initative. Not at all. The Republicans bear some of the responsibility. They were in the majority for years and got nothing done on health care reform. I want, and I suspect most Americans do also, significant health care reform, things not addressed by the plan before congress.

The Democrats are taking a huge leap,,, by having absolutely no bi-partisanship involvement,, (something else Obama promised in his campaign) they are leaving themselves wide open to future disaster as a party if (when) the health care system bankrupts the country and doesn't provide all the hype. The creation of a huge new entitlement program with it's accompanying expectations is just one more pyramid scheme like Social Security. You simply can't give more and more entitlements while the pool of payers decreases. If a private company ran a system like the Social Security system (pyramid) they would be prosecuted and jailed.

The proposed plan is not wanted by the majority of Americans,,,, THEY WANT ATTENTION and PRIORITY PLACED UPON JOB CREATION.

You also forgot this: Americans will be paying for this boondoggle for FOUR YEARS in higher taxes, higher insurance premiums and less medical care in Medicare and Medicaid before the NEW HEALTH CARE system can be used! It's kinda like paying for a new car for four years, but not being able to take it off the lot until year five. That will be a death knell to the politicians who forced this on working Americans, and it will have been forced if it passes.

Here is a video I found about a lawyer building a case against the parts of the bill that he feels are unconstitutional:

http://video.foxnews.com/12953314/read- ... fbedd640ad

Americans are angry.

Unconstitutional political deals to get senatorial votes for the unpopular health care bill are drawing fire from the attorneys general of several states. In a federal system of government, the US states retain some autonomy from the federal government. See the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution.

GOP attorney generals threaten suit over Nebraska health deal

Why aren't attorneys general who are Democrats questioning it? Because it was Democrats in the Senate who cut the deals to vote for the unpopular health care plan. President George Washington warned Americans that political parties would be the undoing of the country.

At the risk of being Hung, Drawn and Quartered by you Americans, can I suggest that a Health system that takes care of all of it's Citizens, regardless of there wealth or Social status is not going to kill the American Economy. Many Countries around the World have Health Systems that care for there People in the form of Free Care, and they don't go broke, and that includes my Country. I'm not saying that these systems are perfect or that the care given is all that flash, but for a couple of Dollars a week extra in Tax it ensures that the common person who may not have the means to look after themselves (for what ever reason) has access to proper Medical care they never had before. Those of us who have good paying Jobs have the choice of Private Health Insurance that gives us priority care in a Hospital of our choice and a Surgeon of our choice but still allows people of low income to be treated like proper members of the community . I saw a Lady a couple of weeks ago in America who was visibly shaken and in tears about this proposed plan by Obama who said that she didn't want America to be reduced to having to live like Russian's what on earth kind of propaganda had this poor Woman been subjected to to think that looking after your fellow Countryman in a time of need was some kind of Communist conspiracy. I must admit to being a Democratic Socialist (if indeed there is such a thing) I believe in a system where you have the opportunity to create your own wealth, but have enough compassion to look after those who lack the ability to look after themselves. Please, have a happy and healthy New Year because there are some who will not.... Aardvark

No free lunch in America. Get a job -- you're covered.

Lay about on the sofa all day eating bonbons and watching Oprah, you're hosed.

Welfare states that claim this supposed moral high ground by pandering to such slackers do not impress me. Quite the opposite.

Aardvark wrote:At the risk of being Hung, Drawn and Quartered by you Americans, can I suggest that a Health system that takes care of all of it's Citizens, regardless of there wealth or Social status is not going to kill the American Economy. Many Countries around the World have Health Systems that care for there People in the form of Free Care, and they don't go broke, and that includes my Country. I'm not saying that these systems are perfect or that the care given is all that flash, but for a couple of Dollars a week extra in Tax it ensures that the common person who may not have the means to look after themselves (for what ever reason) has access to proper Medical care they never had before. Those of us who have good paying Jobs have the choice of Private Health Insurance that gives us priority care in a Hospital of our choice and a Surgeon of our choice but still allows people of low income to be treated like proper members of the community . I saw a Lady a couple of weeks ago in America who was visibly shaken and in tears about this proposed plan by Obama who said that she didn't want America to be reduced to having to live like Russian's what on earth kind of propaganda had this poor Woman been subjected to to think that looking after your fellow Countryman in a time of need was some kind of Communist conspiracy. I must admit to being a Democratic Socialist (if indeed there is such a thing) I believe in a system where you have the opportunity to create your own wealth, but have enough compassion to look after those who lack the ability to look after themselves. Please, have a happy and healthy New Year because there are some who will not.... Aardvark

I think we can have a difference of opinion without anyone being "Hung, Drawn and Quartered". After all, we don't all play in the pool league.

First, these bills don't even cover all Americans! There will still be between 10 million and 20 million Americans uncovered, isn't that a hoot?!?! But we don't want illegal aliens covered in the bill either. And we don't want abortions covered in the bill either (that's a private choice and should be paid with private funds, not taxpayers' money).

Second, I think that every American wants affordable health care and is concerned about everyone receiving it. The biggest objections are that the government wants to run it and the fact that the program hurts those of us who already have it. It makes ours more expensive and less effective. US government programs have a history of destroying the best services and bringing everyone down to the lower end of the scale instead of bringing the bottom up to the higher end. Additionally, Americans against this view it all as a government power grab. We don't want government deciding our care. Period.

Third, the taxes and higher costs associated with this mess is much more than a couple of dollars a week. If it was only $104 USD a year, $208 USD a year, $520 USD a year, I wouldn't sweat it. The costs will be over ten times that amount, and the end result will be the same as Medicare and Medicaid. A dozen or so years down the road, the overall cost will be over ten times what the Congress currently projects. They are LIARS. All of them.

Lastly, no one is dying in the streets in America. By law, every hospital has to treat anyone who shows up needing care. We all end up paying for that anyway in higher costs passed on to us. I'm fine with it.

If the bills removed the government from controlling, eliminated aliens and abortions, and did not affect anyone who already had coverage that they liked, I don't think there would be many objections at all. Americans are tired of being lied to and having their money spent without accountability. Americans see the waste and fraud daily, and they're tired of having more and more money taken from them.

Texpat wrote:No free lunch in America. Get a job -- you're covered.

Lay about on the sofa all day eating bonbons and watching Oprah, you're hosed.

Welfare states that claim this supposed moral high ground by pandering to such slackers do not impress me. Quite the opposite.

Agreed.

I was talking to Canada yesterday about their health care plan, he said it was mess, not my words his.

They have a lot of time to iron out their system, in his mind it isnlt working. So what si the U.S. going to do that is going be any better?

Inviting citizens to sponge off the system and become completely dependent on the government is nothing to be proud of.

Providing disincentives to work and trying to be everything to everybody results in a nanny state environment that frankly turns my stomach. A government should create an environment in which a private health care system can flourish -- laws, regulations, price guides if necessary, malpractice issues. A government should not subsume the entire health care apparatus. The health care is fine. The administration needs lots of work. A 10-minute ride in an ambulance should not be billed at $1,000.

I'm perfectly comfortable with the 85% solution. I'd rather see 85% satisfied than 100% so fed-up they're leaving.

It's amusing to listen to some here endlessly whine and moan and decry their country's health care -- but rush to its defense when others point out its flaws.

Texpat wrote:Inviting citizens to sponge off the system and become completely dependent on the government is nothing to be proud of.

Providing disincentives to work and trying to be everything to everybody results in a nanny state environment that frankly turns my stomach. A government should create an environment in which a private health care system can flourish -- laws, regulations, price guides if necessary, malpractice issues. A government should not subsume the entire health care apparatus. The health care is fine. The administration needs lots of work. A 10-minute ride in an ambulance should not be billed at $1,000.

I'm perfectly comfortable with the 85% solution. I'd rather see 85% satisfied than 100% so fed-up they're leaving.

It's amusing to listen to some here endlessly whine and moan and decry their country's health care -- but rush to its defense when others point out its flaws.

Texpat, it is apples and oranges.

Those in the nanny-state governments have been so far removed from free enterprise and personal liberty and freedom that they are content with what they have now -- warts and all. On the other hand, we are content with free enterprise and personal liberty and freedom -- warts and all.

We will never understand them due to their socialization into what they have become accustomed to, and the same is true for them regarding our views.

And then there will always those who don't comprehend all the enumerated issues involved in the current health care boondoggle in America and would prefer to just characterize all Americans who don't like the plan as lacking compassion.