US Health Care Plan

rjj04 wrote:... will never hear any realistic proposals from the anti-public system adherents ... they deny AGW ... never provide a positive argument ... just attack facts with fallacious arguments ... lack of compassion ... selfishness ... don't give a damn about others.

Just about half of your post was name-calling and labeling.

The embarrassing fact is that a large majority of Americans are gullible and ignorant of the true facts about not only issues like healthcare, but of those whom they vote to represent them in the furtherance of the common good. As long as that situation exists, Republicans will continue to not do anything (recall they had the Presidency and Congress for at least 6 of the last 10 years) that will negatively impact their special interest backers (insurance companies, et al.) and continue to be hypocrites. Obama took their top 4 demands and put them pretty much as written by their Republican authors into the current Health care bill. Result: 0 support. In fact, those same Republicans who wrote the amendments now oppose their own amendments because they were embraced by Obama.

I share the frustration of Rachel Maddow (probably the best and certainly the sharpest cable news show host in the business): When is O going to wake up and smell the coffee that no matter WHAT he does, he will not get any support from Republicans? He needs to just stop tying to share this political football and simply put everything he wants in it and juggernaut it down the field. Worry about appearances and "bi-partisanship" later. In the end, voters are going to judge his administration on one simple issue: Did he get the job done?

I implore anyone serious about understanding the debates in DC (all of them) to subscribe to her video podcast since it is not carried in Thailand. You will not be disappointed. Excellent FACTUAL analysis and commentary.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28981762/ns ... ddow_show/

Just my song-baht.

KHONDAHM wrote:The embarrassing fact is that a large majority of Americans are gullible and ignorant of the true facts about not only issues like healthcare, but of those whom they vote to represent them in the furtherance of the common good. As long as that situation exists, Republicans will continue to not do anything (recall they had the Presidency and Congress for at least 6 of the last 10 years) that will negatively impact their special interest backers (insurance companies, et al.) and continue to be hypocrites. Obama took their top 4 demands and put them pretty much as written by their Republican authors into the current Health care bill. Result: 0 support. In fact, those same Republicans who wrote the amendments now oppose their own amendments because they were embraced by Obama.

I share the frustration of Rachel Maddow (probably the best and certainly the sharpest cable news show host in the business): When is O going to wake up and smell the coffee that no matter WHAT he does, he will not get any support from Republicans? He needs to just stop tying to share this political football and simply put everything he wants in it and juggernaut it down the field. Worry about appearances and "bi-partisanship" later. In the end, voters are going to judge his administration on one simple issue: Did he get the job done?

I implore anyone serious about understanding the debates in DC (all of them) to subscribe to her video podcast since it is not carried in Thailand. You will not be disappointed. Excellent FACTUAL analysis and commentary.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28981762/ns ... ddow_show/

Just my song-baht.

Democrats hold a majority in both houses of Congress since 2006. They do not need one Republican vote to pass any of the agenda of the new president. Up until January of 2010, they did not need one Republican vote to pass anything due to their super majority in both Houses of Congress. Democrats fighting among themselves is what has prevented passage of health care legislation.

Republicans were locked out of the entire process. Democrats consistently rejected Republican amendments to the bills due to their majorities in committees, and Democrats locked Republicans out of the closed-door negotiations in writing the bills.

Lastly, as long as the socialist-progressive agenda of the new president is pushed by socialist-progressives within the Democrat party, there will be opposition within both the Democrat and Republican parties. When free enterprise solutions and proposals that fit within the US Constitution are proposed, they will have a better chance of passing.

In the meantime, consider recent political losses for Democrats in Virginia, New Jersey and Massachusetts (states that Obama easily carried just 12 months ago) as a hint that Americans do not want the socialist-progressive agenda pushed by Democrats. Too much spending, too much debt, too many taxes and too much printing of money is devaluing American currency and bankrupting the government and the productive tax-paying working class.

One need only read the US Constitution to understand legislative issues in American government.

Surely, you are not drinking so much of the Republican truth and fact twisting talking points Kool-Aid that you actually believe Congress or the Executive branch are attempting policies which do not fit within the Constitution or have been anything other than openly and proactively seeking "the Party of No's" support?

Then again, your diatribes already answer the question. I withdraw it.

The reason for the recent Republican wins is not because of a loss of support for the policies, it is because "we" Americans are lazy and have reverted back to the slacker mentality. "We appear to be in office, so why interrupt the daily routine to keep us in office. I did my part in 2008." is the Democrat rallying cry. They (mostly Democrats) are simply not going to the polls while the Republicans have been consistent in being able to motivate their base with lies and distortions to turn out an effect their own brand of "change". It is easy to discern that from the numbers and the lies, distortions, and hypocrisy found everywhere (including your posts).

KHONDAHM wrote:It is easy to discern that from the numbers and the lies, distortions, and hypocrisy found everywhere (including your posts).

And yet, you fail to point to one.

KHONDAHM wrote:Surely, you are not drinking so much of the Republican truth and fact twisting talking points Kool-Aid that you actually believe Congress or the Executive branch are attempting policies which do not fit within the Constitution or have been anything other than openly and proactively seeking "the Party of No's" support?

KHONDAHM wrote:Republicans have been consistent in being able to motivate their base with lies and distortions to turn out an effect their own brand of "change". It is easy to discern that from the numbers and the lies, distortions, and hypocrisy found everywhere (including your posts).

Mr. Khondahm sir, you can't possibly be so naive to believe that, the "lies, distortions, and hypocrisy" is limited to the Republicans? I challenge you to name a career politican, regardless of party affiliation, with even a smidgon of integrity.

(Integrity....Doing the right thing even when no one is looking.)

How many "back room and closed door sessions" do they hold, every year? They don't want the American people to know the wheelings and dealings they are doing for the special interests and friends.

The President has entered the debate...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8528100.stm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters ... eiled.html

The two bills compared..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8424660.stm

BBC's question & answer on USA Healthcare reform
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8160058.stm

I've got some news. The president has been involved with these health care bills all along. His fingerprints are all over them.

As the CBO (Congressional Budget Office) says today, there isn't enough verifiable information in the president's idea to score it and determine the cost. Estimates are $1 Trillion, which is the highest costing idea yet. On the down side, it also contains the most new taxes on those who already have health care.

It just seems so much simpler to create a bill that would cover those who want it (about 12 million) and leave the rest alone. But that wouldn't give the government total control. That's what it is really about -- power grab.

So what are the problems with the US system?

Healthcare costs for individuals are rising dramatically.
Premiums for employer-provided schemes have risen four times faster than wages, and are now double their cost nine years ago.
The percentage of employees with an annual deductible greater than $1,000 increased from 1% to 18% between 2000 and 2008.
As a nation, the US spent some $2.2tn (£1.36tn) on healthcare in 2007. That amounts to 16.2% of GDP, nearly twice the average of other OECD countries.

So this is a complete farbication then & all is really fine & good with the system??
I still, after all these pages & posts, am VERY disappointed by the anti-Obama brigade. Not 1 solid proposal backed up with a fact.
WBU your "12 Million that need it" would seem to be way,way low of the mark..

The US census bureau estimates that 46.3 million people in America, out of a population of 300 million, were uninsured in 2008

BobHelm wrote:WBU your "12 Million that need it" would seem to be way,way low of the mark..

The US census bureau estimates that 46.3 million people in America, out of a population of 300 million, were uninsured in 2008

Uninsured does not equal "want it", which is what I stated. I did not state "need it." That almost 50 million number comes from FORCING Americans to have it -- which is yet to be tested in the Supreme Court.

Eliminate those who are young and do not want it. Eliminate illegal immigrants who are not entitled to it. And the number who want it and cannot get it for various reasons is right about 12 million in everything that I've read. For that reason, the entire system doesn't need to be scrapped for them. Eighty-five percent of Americans have health insurance and 95% of that group likes their insurance. I am one of those people.

http://www.gop.gov/solutions

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124286548605041517.html

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/52896

BobHelm wrote:I still, after all these pages & posts, am VERY disappointed by the anti-Obama brigade. Not 1 solid proposal backed up with a fact.
WBU your "12 Million that need it" would seem to be way,way low of the mark..

The US census bureau estimates that 46.3 million people in America, out of a population of 300 million, were uninsured in 2008

Co-signed.

Also, in response to WBU ALUM, if I were to point out all the Republican distortions, lies, and hypocrisies, I would be typing all day and I have better things to do with my time right now. Being a born and bred (?) evangelical proudly claiming WBU (Wayland Baptist University?) as your alma mater (a Southern Baptist university located in Plainview, Texas) sums the mindset and willful aversion to facts up rather nicely. Those unfamiliar with the historical nuances and mindset of such folks may not "get it", but some of us certainly do.

It is a fact, and not intended as an insult or personal attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVdEMCTGJS4

There is a whole network of alternative reality believers opposed to health care who regurgitate the same talking points over and over again and encourage their flock to believe and be just as evangelical about spreading false and misleading information, too. But facts are facts and you have none which support your wild beliefs about the reality of the health care crisis. Talking points are NOT substitutes for FACT.

The hypocritical part is the answer to "What would the bearded man with hair like wool from North Africa do?" I doubt he would claim to be doing his Pop's will by denying health coverage to the sickest, poorest, and most in need of it.

wayland baptist ... what next?

Thank you for the links WBU.
The first one does offer what, to me, seem 4 sensible proposals for small business owners & groups of individuals to reduce the costs of their Health Care. attempt to limit medical litigation. I doubt if the 4 proposals would increase Health Coverage over non-insured however.
The second had the headline "Republicans Offer Health-Care Plan" screaming out at me....PLAN????? It is 1 (yes one) proposal - to

would eliminate the tax break that employers receive for providing health-insurance benefits to their workers. Instead, it would give an annual tax credit of $2,300 to each individual and $5,700 to each family that they could use to offset the cost of their health insurance

. I am totally unsure of the sensibility in this offer. The first proposals seem to imply that large organisations have a far better bargaining position than individuals and the second wants to take the provision away from big businesses & hand back to the individual.
While the link to the 3rd. site worked, the link from there to the Congress bills would not work as the items were not found, so I cannot really comment.
I am saddened that you do not provide a link to your 12 million figure, I would have thought that the BBC quoted source was a more than adequate provider of figures.

Eighty-five percent of Americans have health insurance and 95% of that group likes their insurance. I am one of those people

These figures are amazingly high. While I have not bothered to re-search them logic tells me that they are suspect, to say the least. The current President made no bones about his wish to reform the American Health system. If your figures ran anything like true he would have undoubtedly finished in 3rd. place!!

KHONDAHM you have WBU figured completely incorrectly. The initials stand for Water Buffalo University which all long term stayers in Thailand must attend.
While I do not think we agree with each other very often I have always enjoyed my disagreements with him as I believe that he has firm believes & stands by them and argues his corner in a dignified manner.
On Health Care I believe America has it completely wrong - the pro & anti Obama fronts!!
I think the reforms suggested are the equivalent of stopping smoking (because it is bad for your health) while your home burns down around you. However I have seen zero suggestion than anyone in office there has the desire to upset the Insurance Company & Health provider paymasters who contribute so much to election coffers!!

Disagreements are part of, and are necessary for, a robust and healthy debate. I welcome and encourage discourse - as passionate as it may be at times.

Interestingly, throughout this entire thread, there is not one link to the actual Obama proposals AND the Republican ideas which have been incorporated. Therefore, let me take this opportunity to fill that gap:

The President’s Proposal
http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/proposal

Republican Ideas Included in the President's Proposal
http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-m ... ican-ideas

I would also add that the Republican minority leader went on the record at a press conference last Fall and enumerated what it would take to get Republican support. Every single one of the 5 top concerns he enumerated have been incorporated AS WRITTEN by the Republican who introduced the amendment. Despite this fact, not a single Republican vote was obtained and the Republicans who introduced the amendments suddenly became opponents of their own amendments.

Go figure.

perhaps they can see through the bullshit .

Obama is a failure. He make me embarrassed to be American. I long for the day when an American president will put the interests of our nation ahead of a flimsy world agenda or a personal selfish abomination.