Bank ATM and Thai Baht

[LoneTraveler]

Greetings

Considering I have been using the ATM of a variety of Banks in Thailand for many years, I have not encountered a conversion fee for Thai Baht until recently, this is new to me.

I have used my debit and credit card in Thailand for many years from my US bank and always received Thai Baht with no conversion fee until recently. This happened at 2 banks when I used their ATM last week. One bank was SCB and the other bank (yellow, Krunthai, I think) charged me 3% markup, all the ATM at each bank has large sign stating THAI BAHT HERE. I was given the option of forgoing the conversion fee but thought perhaps I would receive US dollars instead. Also a 5% conversion was charged when I used a credit card at Lotus last week.

Can anyone help me understand what is happening at the ATM'S and credit card usage in Thailand? 3% and 5% matters when dealing with a large withdrawal or when using a credit card.

Thank you in advance

[semperfiguy]

Looks like the banking industry has made all sorts of changes recently. This morning I took my Thai wife to Bangkok Bank to open up an individual Baht Savings Account for her. On all of our other accounts there, I have a "ghost" signature which is a Power of Attorney to personally deal with all accounts that are in her name; however, they said the rules have now changed and I am not allowed to have a POA on any new accounts which are in her name. All the others are grandfathered in.

[parrot]

Looks like the banking industry has made all sorts of changes recently. This morning I took my Thai wife to Bangkok Bank to open up an individual Baht Savings Account for her. On all of our other accounts there, I have a "ghost" signature which is a Power of Attorney to personally deal with all accounts that are in her name; however, they said the rules have now changed and I am not allowed to have a POA on any new accounts which are in her name. All the others are grandfathered in.

I suspect you'd be able to open a joint account......but having a ghost signature wouldn't be covered by FBAR reporting requirements. A joint account would require reporting via fbar if your total savings exceed the $10k annual limit

[semperfiguy]

Looks like the banking industry has made all sorts of changes recently. This morning I took my Thai wife to Bangkok Bank to open up an individual Baht Savings Account for her. On all of our other accounts there, I have a "ghost" signature which is a Power of Attorney to personally deal with all accounts that are in her name; however, they said the rules have now changed and I am not allowed to have a POA on any new accounts which are in her name. All the others are grandfathered in.

I suspect you'd be able to open a joint account......but having a ghost signature wouldn't be covered by FBAR reporting requirements. A joint account would require reporting via fbar if your total savings exceed the $10k annual limit

Parrot, this so-called "ghost" signature is actually my wife's authority being given to me by way of a formal Power of Attorney on the bank's standard form. I have been reporting my involvement in those accounts under the following category, so I would say that I AM NOT exempt from reporting my authority over her accounts even though they are not joint accounts.

[parrot]

Looks like the banking industry has made all sorts of changes recently. This morning I took my Thai wife to Bangkok Bank to open up an individual Baht Savings Account for her. On all of our other accounts there, I have a "ghost" signature which is a Power of Attorney to personally deal with all accounts that are in her name; however, they said the rules have now changed and I am not allowed to have a POA on any new accounts which are in her name. All the others are grandfathered in.

I suspect you'd be able to open a joint account......but having a ghost signature wouldn't be covered by FBAR reporting requirements. A joint account would require reporting via fbar if your total savings exceed the $10k annual limit

Parrot, this so-called "ghost" signature is actually my wife's authority being given to me by way of a formal Power of Attorney on the bank's standard form. I have been reporting my involvement in those accounts under the following category, so I would say that I AM NOT exempt from reporting my authority over her accounts even though they are not joint accounts.

So, why not just open a joint account? You can let her deal with it as she pleases and when you die, she'll not have to worry about ownership.

[semperfiguy]

Looks like the banking industry has made all sorts of changes recently. This morning I took my Thai wife to Bangkok Bank to open up an individual Baht Savings Account for her. On all of our other accounts there, I have a "ghost" signature which is a Power of Attorney to personally deal with all accounts that are in her name; however, they said the rules have now changed and I am not allowed to have a POA on any new accounts which are in her name. All the others are grandfathered in.

I suspect you'd be able to open a joint account......but having a ghost signature wouldn't be covered by FBAR reporting requirements. A joint account would require reporting via fbar if your total savings exceed the $10k annual limit

Parrot, this so-called "ghost" signature is actually my wife's authority being given to me by way of a formal Power of Attorney on the bank's standard form. I have been reporting my involvement in those accounts under the following category, so I would say that I AM NOT exempt from reporting my authority over her accounts even though they are not joint accounts.

So, why not just open a joint account? You can let her deal with it as she pleases and when you die, she'll not have to worry about ownership.

Parrot, I'm afraid that is a myth and that convenience for a joint account in Thailand is not the same as in the US. I was told without reservation that even with a joint account, if one of the owners passes away, the surviving owner cannot take money from the account without going through the Thai court for legal permission. In the past I have been advised by upper management in Bangkok to have the surviving owner run to the bank immediately and withdraw the money without giving the bank notice that there has been a death. Hard to believe they would give that kind of advice, but it has even been suggested by the presenters in seminars held for the members of The Udon Expat Club. Then again, I suppose that if you asked three different staff members for the regulations, you would certainly get three different answers since most of them don't really have a clue but are happy to give you their informal opinions instead of the facts since God forbid they would lose their face if they didn't have an answer for you.

Here is the problem as I see it: Broadly speaking, if the account has what is termed the “right of survivorship,” all the funds pass directly to the surviving owner. If not, the share of the account belonging to the deceased owner is distributed through his or her estate. In Thailand, if your Thai wife were to die intestate (without a will), then her equal share of the joint account would have to be distributed among her statutory heirs which would include the following:

descendants (children)
parents
brothers and sisters of full blood
brothers and sisters of half blood
grandparents
uncles and aunts
The surviving spouse is a statutory heir, subject to the special provisions of Section 1635 Civil and Commercial Code.

Therefore the poor surviving farang husband will have to share the deceased wife's share of the funds in the account with other statutory heirs. In this case it's extremely important that your Thai wife have a Will leaving all of her assets to the husband, then that Will would have to be probated by the Thai Court and the money in the joint account could then be passed to the surviving husband. Again, without the Will, money in the account will have to be shared with others.

With the Thai inheritance laws being what they are, it's my guess that no joint accounts here have "rights of survivorship"! It would certainly be worthwhile to investigate this further so that we can plan ahead; otherwise, we may all find ourselves in the middle of a nightmare one day.

[Chriss]

Greetings

Considering I have been using the ATM of a variety of Banks in Thailand for many years, I have not encountered a conversion fee for Thai Baht until recently, this is new to me.

I have used my debit and credit card in Thailand for many years from my US bank and always received Thai Baht with no conversion fee until recently. This happened at 2 banks when I used their ATM last week. One bank was SCB and the other bank (yellow, Krunthai, I think) charged me 3% markup, all the ATM at each bank has large sign stating THAI BAHT HERE. I was given the option of forgoing the conversion fee but thought perhaps I would receive US dollars instead. Also a 5% conversion was charged when I used a credit card at Lotus last week.

Can anyone help me understand what is happening at the ATM'S and credit card usage in Thailand? 3% and 5% matters when dealing with a large withdrawal or when using a credit card.

Thank you in advance

I queried this with one of the banks, their reply was its the card supplier, Visa, Mastercard etc, who have added the 3% . Interestingly though I tested my UK debit card at a BKK Bank ATM and didn't receive the conversion offer. I'm still waiting for a reply as to what I would receive if I chose No to the conversion, you wouldn't get dollars or any other currency, I'm guessing it would cancel the transaction.

Re credit cards, never used one in an ATM but I've been charged 5% on top of cost price when I've used a credit card for shop purchases.. rare I use the CC but ask now before using..

[rick]

I think the 'conversion fee' is offered by the Thai bank and means your card would be debited in your home currency, hence no home bank conversion costs. You still get Baht. This benefits the Thai bank but probably not you. As i have a fee free credit card i always ask to be charged in baht, if asked. I do a counter withdrawal at my bank (Krungsri) once or more a month and the exchange rate i get is usually very close to the mid-market rate on XE.com (allowing for the Mastercard conversion fee of 1%). My last transaction actually gave me more Than the mid-market rate - how i do not know, but i am not complaining!

ATMs in Thailand also charge a fee of 200 baht or more as well per transaction. Counter withdrawals should avoid this fee (not available at most bank branches in Central, they want to shaft the occasional visitor). The branch i use doesn't charge.

[tamada]

I only have experience of the ATM's of three banks and a foreign debit card, Bangkok, Kasikorn and SCB. Of those, only Kasikorn gives the option to accept/decline their conversion rate. Thus K-Bank gets my business. All charge the "mandatory" 220 baht fee for foreign plastic. This is simply added to the amount requested by the card holder as the card issuers bank sees it, ie. not an itemized supplementary fee. Pushing the "accept" button is the equivalent of nodding your head as the shop keeper leans across the counter and helps themselves to some bills in your wallet while it's open.

As noted, busier shopping mall branches will simply refer those seeking a counter forex transaction to their ATM lobby. That's the inconvenience of trying to use a 'convenient' shopping mall branch.

[LoneTraveler]

Parrot, I'm afraid that is a myth and that convenience for a joint account in Thailand is not the same as in the US. I was told without reservation that even with a joint account, if one of the owners passes away, the surviving owner cannot take money from the account without going through the Thai court for legal permission. In the past I have been advised by upper management in Bangkok to have the surviving owner run to the bank immediately and withdraw the money without giving the bank notice that there has been a death. Hard to believe they would give that kind of advice, but it has even been suggested by the presenters in seminars held for the members of The Udon Expat Club. Then again, I suppose that if you asked three different staff members for the regulations, you would certainly get three different answers since most of them don't really have a clue but are happy to give you their informal opinions instead of the facts since God forbid they would lose their face if they didn't have an answer for you.

Here is the problem as I see it: Broadly speaking, if the account has what is termed the “right of survivorship,” all the funds pass directly to the surviving owner. If not, the share of the account belonging to the deceased

I have been concerned about a joint account with my wife and her mother. The above makes the case to inquire if the account has a "right of survivorship" attached to the account. My wife has been repeatedly told by differing bank staff that if her mother dies prior to my wife that upon presentation of death certificate, she can continue to withdraw funds on her own signature. My mother-in-law is getting older and not in the best of health.

Reason for joint account with wife's mother is, my wife has had credit problems in the past and is still be hounded by some creditors even though all her past due accounts are 10 plus years. She is extremely concerned that if she has a bank account in her name only, they may get a court order to seize her funds. I tried to no avail to explain that the accounts she has defaulted on are beyond the 10 year limit. If they were going to get a court oder they would have done so by now. I want her to have bank access to funds upon my death and for us to have a joint account is not advisable.

[LoneTraveler]

To all that have responded, thank you I now understand what is going on with the conversion action. One thing further, if I am asked by either Lotus or Big C if I want Thai Baht or Dollars when using a US credit card, would the answer be Thai Baht?

[jackspratt]

I use my (Australian issued) credit card regularly at Big C - both Ban Dung and Udon - and have never been asked to choose between the default THB, and A$

My understanding is that when you are offered a choice, it is preferable to select the local currency.

[tamada]

I use my (Australian issued) credit card regularly at Big C - both Ban Dung and Udon - and have never been asked to choose between the default THB, and A$

My understanding is that when you are offered a choice, it is preferable to select the local currency.

What flavour of ATM are you presenting your card at? Some offer conversion choices, others use the default.

For Kasikorn, they take less out of my UK account if I decline their ATM conversion at this end.

[jackspratt]

I use Kasikorn, but only to withdraw TBH from my Thai account.

My reference to Big C is for touch and go transactions with my Oz credit card.