Downunder republicanism

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GT93
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Downunder republicanism

Post by GT93 » September 1, 2015, 2:45 am

The four possible new NZ flags that will be put to the public in a referendum are going to be released today. Hopefully over the next few months a favourite will emerge. I'm hoping this is a genie coming out of the bottle and will set in train a downhill ride to a republic. Sadly, I think that's unlikely.

Politics seems to run more deeply into Aussie institutions than in NZ wazza. I gathered that also from reading about Dyson Heydon. Never fear, there would be plenty of terrific Aussie heads of state.



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Downunder republicanism

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » September 1, 2015, 2:56 am

GT93 wrote:The four possible new NZ flags that will be put to the public in a referendum are going to be released today. Hopefully over the next few months a favourite will emerge. I'm hoping this is a genie coming out of the bottle and will set in train a downhill ride to a republic. Sadly, I think that's unlikely.

Politics seems to run more deeply into Aussie institutions than in NZ wazza. I gathered that also from reading about Dyson Heydon. Never fear, there would be plenty of terrific Aussie heads of state.

If it is to be a free and democratic vote, I would expect that one of the four choices has to be the current flag of New Zealand.
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Post by GT93 » September 1, 2015, 7:15 am

Yes. There are two referendums. The first one is to pick the possible new flag and then some months later whether we go for the new one or stick to the old one. I expect it to get quite heated although all is still calm.

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Post by noosard » September 1, 2015, 7:28 am

Just like the America cup contest

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Post by GT93 » September 1, 2015, 2:02 pm

Ha ha. Actually it reminds me of the referendums to change our electoral system in the early 1990s. That was really serious shxt. We abandoned the UK first pass the post system and switched to a European system. NZ shouldn't be regarded as a UK style democracy but more as a generic European democracy with historical connections to the UK. In other words, more democratic. :shock:

Unfortunately (ha ha) 2 of the 4 flags up for consideration were designed by a Kiwi living in the centre of the sporting universe - Melbourne, in the state of Elizabeth, Australia. Dreadful Aussies, always dishing it out too widely. :(

I live without a TV so I'm not in touch with the common chat but I'll predict on day 1 that the flag is going to change to the silver fern one with the black and blue background. The black makes the link to the All Blacks, so NZ males will vote for that one without realizing that not much rugby may be played in 50 years time and that the NZ Chinese population will be far larger. We should have been offered a variant on the Chinese flag.

I'm chasing the republic so I'll vote for the flag most likely to beat the current one even if I don't like it. There you go downunder - you'll be able to dish out the raspberries if I'm wrong.

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Post by Barney » September 1, 2015, 3:06 pm

GT93 wrote:Yes. There are two referendums. The first one is to pick the possible new flag and then some months later whether we go for the new one or stick to the old one. I expect it to get quite heated although all is still calm.
Is the cart before the horse on this one?

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Post by marjamlew » September 1, 2015, 3:31 pm

GT93 wrote:Ha ha. Actually it reminds me of the referendums to change our electoral system in the early 1990s. That was really serious shxt. We abandoned the UK first pass the post system and switched to a European system. NZ shouldn't be regarded as a UK style democracy but more as a generic European democracy with historical connections to the UK. In other words, more democratic. :shock:

Unfortunately (ha ha) 2 of the 4 flags up for consideration were designed by a Kiwi living in the centre of the sporting universe - Melbourne, in the state of Elizabeth, Australia. Dreadful Aussies, always dishing it out too widely. :(

I live without a TV so I'm not in touch with the common chat but I'll predict on day 1 that the flag is going to change to the silver fern one with the black and blue background. The black makes the link to the All Blacks, so NZ males will vote for that one without realizing that not much rugby may be played in 50 years time and that the NZ Chinese population will be far larger. We should have been offered a variant on the Chinese flag.

I'm chasing the republic so I'll vote for the flag most likely to beat the current one even if I don't like it. There you go downunder - you'll be able to dish out the raspberries if I'm wrong.
This is not surprising as about half the population of Melbourne seem to be expat Kiwis. I would actually be interested to know how many Kiwis live in Oz compared to NZ. Spose you gotta send the ---- rugby players somewhere.
Watch Me!!

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Post by Laan Yaa Mo » September 2, 2015, 1:06 am

Well, the four contenders in the New Zealand competition to overthrow the current flag are pretty poor. One of them, if it was green and white instead of black and white, could be easily mistaken for the Pakistan flag. I think the current flag beats any of these quite handily.
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Post by wazza » September 2, 2015, 1:13 am

For me I would vote for any flag contender that removes the Union Jack as this is the monarchist link that a republican drive is trying to remove in the new identity.

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Post by BobHelm » September 2, 2015, 7:18 am

flag.png
Mmm as I have little interest in interfering in the internal affairs of foreign lands, no comment could be my best reply... :D

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Post by wazza » September 2, 2015, 7:28 am

2nd from the Right, clearly shows a rupture of the timpanic membrane exposing the Cochlear.

1st on the Left, ISIS has reached Wellington and left it alone.

Leaving 2 left

What significance does the Red have over the black ??

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Post by Barney » September 2, 2015, 11:13 am

There is a long history to the Aussie flag, yes it does have a British and Royal significance, but lets not forget that one of the the main influences for the flag was due to our forthcoming Aussie federation and the commonwealth, and the security and protection that the commonwealth afforded us.
The significant Histororical background should not be thrown out just to appease anti royalists. There is more to it than that. That is why common ground will be hard to find.
Also the small matter of the coat of arms cannot be forgotten in any debate but usually is.
Unfortunately getting rid of the flag and the queen as head of state are the only real issue in the thought process of the masses.
We Australians have been happy to patronize and serve the current flag and the Australian Coat of Arms along with the state Coat's of Arms for over a century with great pride.
I am not saying don't change, but change with all of our history in mind.
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Downunder republicanism

Post by GT93 » September 2, 2015, 1:50 pm

Comments welcome including from, of course, Bob. It's still very open. None of the proposed flags strongly reach out to NZers and say choose me.

Marjamlew I think 5 to 10% of NZers live in Oz although the incentives playing field is now very strongly not to move to Australia - e.g. Kiwis aren't eligible for welfare in Oz etc. although Aussies are eligible here; the Aussie economy is [expletive deleted] partly thanks to TA ...

God Richie McCaw wants a flag with the Silver Fern, as does the PM. Sadly the PM isn't a republican. For me this is what it is all about. Changing the flag should be about as difficult as replacing individual Charles with a NZer. There's no mention of the republican issue so far. Fingers crossed a monster has been unleashed ...

I was hoping our Aussie friends might push us towards republicanism but I think it's more likely to be the other way round. Personally I have no problems with Betty but I think there's something better ...

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Re: Downunder republicanism

Post by jackspratt » May 29, 2020, 10:51 am

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I would necro this one, as today's decision of the High Court of Oz has the potential to re-open the Republic debate.
Historian Jenny Hocking has won her High Court bid to access the letters exchanged between then governor-general Sir John Kerr and the Queen around the time of the dismissal of the Whitlam government.

Key points:

- The High Court rules the documents, known as the "Palace letters", are public not private

- Historian Jenny Hocking has been fighting for access to the correspondence since 2016

- The letters and clippings may shed light on what the Queen knew about the Whitlam dismissal

Until now, the National Archives of Australia had refused to release the documents, known as the "Palace letters", saying they were private papers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-29/ ... g/12299164
=D>

If it turns out that Lizzie was in on the "fix", there will be, correctly in my view, questions to be asked about the place of the pommie royal family in Australia's constitutional system.

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Re: Downunder republicanism

Post by GT93 » May 29, 2020, 11:10 am

Fingers crossed from this republican that she was.

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Re: Downunder republicanism

Post by jackspratt » July 14, 2020, 3:03 pm

jackspratt wrote:
May 29, 2020, 10:51 am


If it turns out that Lizzie was in on the "fix", there will be, correctly in my view, questions to be asked about the place of the pommie royal family in Australia's constitutional system.
Seems that Betty is in the clear, with the dastardly deed being entirely on the shoulders of the sodden GG, Kerr.
Queen Elizabeth was told of Sir John Kerr’s consideration of the dismissal of prime minister Gough Whitlam months before the historic decision of November 1975, the palace letters reveal.

But in another letter, Sir John claims that his final decision to dismiss Mr Whitlam was made without the Queen’s knowledge.......
https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2020/07 ... 2020200714
Long live the queen. :D

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Re: Downunder republicanism

Post by GT93 » July 14, 2020, 4:11 pm

I'm feeling a bit disappointed.

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Re: Downunder republicanism

Post by tinpeeba » July 15, 2020, 3:47 am

Why the Queen should apologise to Australia


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Re: Downunder republicanism

Post by Aardvark » July 15, 2020, 5:53 am

Now little Jenny Hockings Crusade has come to nothing, maybe we can concentrate on producing some quality Politicians who are more concerned with getting our economy in order ...

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Re: Downunder republicanism

Post by tamada » July 15, 2020, 6:08 am

No, no and thrice no... In the same vein as Mississippi removing the symbol of the U.S. Confederacy from the top left corner of their state flag, the Aussies should be embracing this BLM-inspired moment of deep introspection and.fighting hard to get that racist blot of the Union Jack expunged from the flag.

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