Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

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Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by Udon Map » March 3, 2021, 7:42 pm

Found this fascinating question posted by a London hotel:

In honour of British pie week, we thought we'd spark a potentially controversial debate; are Wellingtons considered pies?
It's assumed that the dish pays homage to the first Duke of Wellington, Arthur Wellesley, the hero of the Battle of Waterloo.

Using pastry to wrap meat is a popular culinary technique that's been used around the world since before the 14th century, however most modern 'pies' tend to consist of cut up meat, rather than a whole joint.



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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by Whistler » March 3, 2021, 9:12 pm

Udon Map wrote:
March 3, 2021, 7:42 pm
Found this fascinating question posted by a London hotel:

In honour of British pie week, we thought we'd spark a potentially controversial debate; are Wellingtons considered pies?
It's assumed that the dish pays homage to the first Duke of Wellington, Arthur Wellesley, the hero of the Battle of Waterloo.

Using pastry to wrap meat is a popular culinary technique that's been used around the world since before the 14th century, however most modern 'pies' tend to consist of cut up meat, rather than a whole joint.
Beef Wellington is as British as chicken parcels wrapped in Filo compared to the Thai equivalent in Soi Sampan, but with fewer ladyboys. Come to think of it, British famous persons have been right buggers too.

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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by Niggly » March 3, 2021, 9:15 pm

Contentious, provocative opening post. You know how emotive the subject of pies can be. 😂

I’m going with a Wellington is not a pie. According to Wiki, a pie has pastry lining a baking dish or mold but a Wellington does not ergo not a pie.


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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by jackspratt » March 3, 2021, 9:19 pm

Niggly wrote:
March 3, 2021, 9:15 pm
Contentious, provocative opening post. You know how emotive the subject of pies can be. 😂
Even more so, given that Wellington is clearly a dish of French origin. 8)

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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by stattointhailand » March 3, 2021, 9:28 pm

Only if you use English Beef ........ none of yer Froggie "Boeuf" or Argie "Carne" :lol:

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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by Barney » March 3, 2021, 9:29 pm

Have no idea where a Wellington is a pie.
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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by papafarang » March 4, 2021, 3:37 am

The simple answer is no, not even close. As stated pies consist of two pieces of pastry with a filling consisting of meat/ veg in gravy baked in a tin. Beef Wellington is just a posh sausage roll :D . but you could argue wellington is a style of pastie as they're made with a single piece of pastry,contain no gravy and are not baked in a mould. I would actually go with wiki with this and simply call it what it is , a steak dish. Oh those silly things you get in restaurants ,soup in a bowl with a pre baked puff pastry lid are not pies either.
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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by Khun Paul » March 4, 2021, 4:02 am

papafarang wrote:
March 4, 2021, 3:37 am
The simple answer is no, not even close. As stated pies consist of two pieces of pastry with a filling consisting of meat/ veg in gravy baked in a tin. Beef Wellington is just a posh sausage roll :D
Agree, normally cooked as you say , as a giant expensive sausage roll, however I have known restaurants who have made them as individual servings, using the same method in the making but producing a very expensive beef filled dumpling. Extremely tasty and expensive but luverly

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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by AlexO » March 4, 2021, 6:36 am

jackspratt wrote:
March 3, 2021, 9:19 pm
Niggly wrote:
March 3, 2021, 9:15 pm
Contentious, provocative opening post. You know how emotive the subject of pies can be. 😂
Even more so, given that Wellington is clearly a dish of French origin. 8)
Beef Wellington is a steak dish of English origin, made out of fillet steak coated with pâté (often pâté de foie gras) and duxelles, wrapped in puff pastry, then baked. Some recipes include wrapping the coated meat in a crêpe or parma ham to retain the moisture and prevent it from making the pastry soggy.

Just cannot give up Pratty can you.

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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by Udon Map » March 4, 2021, 10:34 am

jackspratt wrote:
March 3, 2021, 9:19 pm
Even more so, given that Wellington is clearly a dish of French origin. 8)
From Wikipedia:
Beef Wellington is a steak dish of English origin, made out of fillet steak coated with pâté (often pâté de foie gras) and duxelles, wrapped in puff pastry, then baked. Some recipes include wrapping the coated meat in a crêpe or parma ham to retain the moisture and prevent it from making the pastry soggy.

A whole tenderloin may be wrapped and baked, and then sliced for serving, or the tenderloin may be sliced into individual portions prior to wrapping and baking.

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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by stattointhailand » March 4, 2021, 10:49 am

"Beef Wellington is a steak dish of English origin, made " ....... with English ingredients?

Surely you are aware how "English" pâté (often pâté de foie gras) and duxelles is ?
And the typical English style crêpe or parma ham (from Parma, just a few hundred Km South of Portsmouth I think)

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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by Niggly » March 4, 2021, 11:16 am

The key to the best Beef Wellington is not to have a soggy bottom so says Jamie Oliver.

As an aside, I can usually shave a few minutes off his 30 minute meals by not acting like a t**t in the kitchen
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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by jackspratt » March 4, 2021, 11:54 am

Oh dear ..... because it says so in wiki, it must be correct. :D

A different view (part of which also appears in the same wiki:
But Beef Wellington does not appear in any English cookbook we can find before about 1970, and we can't find it mentioned in literature before Michael Bond's 'Paddington Takes the Test' of 1981. It has no known connection, other than the name, with the Duke of Wellington or with the towns of Wellington in Cumbria. Herefordshire, Shropshire, Somerset or New Zealand. In fact this dish, so often seen as thoroughly English and completely Victorian, appears to be modern, originally French and named in America after an Irishman.
http://www.foodsofengland.co.uk/beefwellington.htm
Just to spice the discussion up further - which was my original intention (but clearly went over the head of our Scottish contributor), it has now come to my attention that the English variety of the dish was (perhaps) named after an Irishman. :-"

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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by papafarang » March 4, 2021, 12:08 pm

Oh dear .... Not because wiki says so. I say so ,wiki just happens to agree with me :lol:
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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by tamada » March 4, 2021, 12:26 pm

AlexO wrote:
March 4, 2021, 6:36 am
jackspratt wrote:
March 3, 2021, 9:19 pm
Niggly wrote:
March 3, 2021, 9:15 pm
Contentious, provocative opening post. You know how emotive the subject of pies can be. 😂
Even more so, given that Wellington is clearly a dish of French origin. 8)
Beef Wellington is a steak dish of English origin, made out of fillet steak coated with pâté (often pâté de foie gras) and duxelles, wrapped in puff pastry, then baked. Some recipes include wrapping the coated meat in a crêpe or parma ham to retain the moisture and prevent it from making the pastry soggy.

Just cannot give up Pratty can you.
Then there's Scottish Hogmanay Pie which is a steak pie slow cooked in an ashet without the bottom pastry case, just a large puff-pastry top.
hogmanay pie.jpg

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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by the-monk » March 4, 2021, 12:47 pm

Come on, this is Thailand and the sizzling season is upon us.
Why not go for an
ESKIMO "PIE" ?
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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by Shado » March 4, 2021, 1:03 pm

Moon Pies (& RC cola) are right damn popular back home.

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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by stattointhailand » March 4, 2021, 1:51 pm

A few more "Pie" recipes to help Niggles add an ounce or two

https://www.allrecipes.com/recipes/791/ ... olate-pie/

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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by Shado » March 4, 2021, 3:37 pm

Looks like there is such a thing as a Beef Wellington Pot Pie. Actually looks pretty darn tasty.

https://www.giftofhospitality.com/beef- ... n-pot-pie/

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Re: Are Wellingtons Considered "Pies"?

Post by stattointhailand » March 4, 2021, 3:54 pm

That's a classic shado ........... considering we have already discovered that "Beef Welliington" didn't exist before 1970's, the bio for the woman providing the Beef Wellington Pot Pie variant states :- "I’m Kate. I love discovering old fashioned recipes that will transport you back in time." ......... would seem that Beef Wellington must obviously be an old time Beef Wellington Pot Pie, just cooked without the pot pie

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