Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by pepesgrill » March 1, 2022, 7:18 pm

once kp left , the english programme fell into ruin.

how do they ask those prices for this instruction :-s



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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by Khun Paul » March 2, 2022, 8:13 am

Actually the Director who started the DB Smart system together with the head of M4-6 l, the Director was moved by Don Bosco head office to sort out another school in their empire as that was failing as well. After that strident voices from other heads of departments who did not like the system of using Modern techniques etc came to the fore. Many who were teaching saw the writing and left, measures were taken to not renew teachers who were there and so they left or had no option.
For example I put in place a final exam , which was for TWO hours testing all subjects taught in the final year and all my DB Smart students passed at a level of 65% plus, however I was criticised for such a long exam and told only the last two months of teaching should be examined as was normal in Thai schools.
The basics were tested, Reading ability, Writing ability and the Major parts of English Grammar together with Critical Thinking plus including Vocabulary knowledge.

So if Thai schools in general ( this is historical points ) it may well have changed, only TEST the lasty terms teaching, the Student has no reason to learn or even retain previously taught subjects, grammar, etc and rarely did Thai exams ever test their reading ability , only Multi choice and some of them were so ambiguous that it had to be seen to be believed .

Sad but true, so no the English teaching did not fail because of my leaving, it fell because I taught my students to think which is rarely taught by some Thai teachers . and taught them regarding speech , if what they are saying does not sound right, then it is probably wrong .

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » March 2, 2022, 9:16 am

Khun Paul wrote:
March 2, 2022, 8:13 am

For example I put in place a final exam , which was for TWO hours testing all subjects taught in the final year and all my DB Smart students passed at a level of 65% plus, however I was criticised for such a long exam and told only the last two months of teaching should be examined as was normal in Thai schools.

Wow! You did that Khun Paul? Congratulations.
You only pass through this life once, you don't come back for an encore.

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by Khun Paul » March 2, 2022, 11:30 am

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:
March 2, 2022, 9:16 am
Khun Paul wrote:
March 2, 2022, 8:13 am

For example I put in place a final exam , which was for TWO hours testing all subjects taught in the final year and all my DB Smart students passed at a level of 65% plus, however I was criticised for such a long exam and told only the last two months of teaching should be examined as was normal in Thai schools.

Wow! You did that Khun Paul? Congratulations.
Tks

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by pepesgrill » March 3, 2022, 6:35 am

at those prices , they should have a team of brits
rigourously implementing the full cambridge ENG
spectrum of instructional materials and tests :-s

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by Khun Paul » March 3, 2022, 7:36 am

pepesgrill wrote:
March 3, 2022, 6:35 am
at those prices , they should have a team of brits
rigourously implementing the full cambridge ENG
spectrum of instructional materials and tests :-s
What if I told you that every foreigner working for almost any school according to my source, that school gets a grant of 40 k for emp-loying said teacher, now that is nothing like the wage offered to most teachers in the Private or public sector, plus many adopt the work regime start at 0800 ( normal school starting time and go home after school finishes . even when that particular teacher ( as was the case with me ) of only having two lessons in a school day. You had to sit there after marking etc, twiddling thumbs and for what I ask. As most are excluded form any or all activities ( except sports days ) as it is all conducted in Thai.

What happens to the extra money well who knows and the schools will be reluctant to share that info, only to say, it is to pay the a Thai teacher to sit in to monitor the Farang as if we could override the culture of teacher dominance in Thai schools where the teacher is regarded something akin to God in many cases.
Plus apart from two weeks never saw a teacher sitting in at any of the schools I taught in for ten years considering my wages approx nearly 15+ k a month going into the proverbial slush fund ...lol. The system may have changed but not by much. Plus Parents are asked to fork out more for the EP programme. WHY ?????????

Always said a good English tutor will cost less per term for even the statutory 4/5 hours a week , with lessons tailored to your your own child's ability . But most rather pay what is asked for as it is easier and also Thailand is /has tightened up on Tutors even if it is a friend doing it , so a tad dangerous and no-one will ever advertise on Social media . You need to know one personally

Employ Native English speakers really they cannot afford GOOD teachers across the board as they view English as a language which has to be taught but like science NOT VERY WELL
Talking about science I have yet to see any school with dedicated and built science labs of any kind in any school so like English again taught from books with little or no experience `.

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by Techland » March 3, 2022, 8:47 am

Brian Davis wrote:
March 1, 2022, 5:12 pm
Techland wrote:
March 1, 2022, 2:01 pm
Don Bosco English questionair from today. Hopeless.

IMG_1158.jpg
Just out of interest, Techland, what grade(year) was involved here?
Mattayom 3.

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by panorama » March 4, 2022, 9:17 am

I have heard numerous "reports" that Thai private schools receive subsidies from the government to pay teachers. However, I have never really seen any solid evidence for these claims. I do know from personal experience 10 years ago that Universities do receive money. This fact was related to me by administrators who were specifically tasked to maintain records. What about private elementary and secondary schools? Where is the evidence? Has anyone in this forum seen any evidence they would consider credible that documents which teachers (foreign, Thai) are subsidized and what amount per teacher?

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by Khun Paul » March 4, 2022, 9:46 am

panorama wrote:
March 4, 2022, 9:17 am
I have heard numerous "reports" that Thai private schools receive subsidies from the government to pay teachers. However, I have never really seen any solid evidence for these claims. I do know from personal experience 10 years ago that Universities do receive money. This fact was related to me by administrators who were specifically tasked to maintain records. What about private elementary and secondary schools? Where is the evidence? Has anyone in this forum seen any evidence they would consider credible that documents which teachers (foreign, Thai) are subsidized and what amount per teacher?
Try reading my previous post . Clear as mud ...lol

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by pepesgrill » March 6, 2022, 3:39 am

plenty of older pensioners shuffling about. who would probably work part-time, at least giving kids
exposure to native speaker. help not wanted. =;

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by Khun Paul » March 6, 2022, 7:09 am

pepesgrill wrote:
March 6, 2022, 3:39 am
plenty of older pensioners shuffling about. who would probably work part-time, at least giving kids
exposure to native speaker. help not wanted. =;
Years ago that was indeed what was happening, and many Thai children gained a good knowledge, however as Immigration tightened the Rules and the Thai Ministry of Education also tightened the rules as they did not like Good native English teachers actually teaching English, the rules were skewed so is now almost impossible for as you put it Retirees shuffling about to over any assistance at all for even a small gift or even food is NOW considered payment and is therefore Illegal putting the School at risk of large fines and the retiree, visa at risk.;

So you get no assistance overtly or even seen.
I do know of some that do, but it is strictly on a need to know, and no-one on here needs to know as secrets become no longer secret, on here.

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by panorama » March 6, 2022, 11:00 pm

Khun Paul you said, ""What if I told you that every foreigner working for almost any school according to my source...." This is anecdotal information. What is your source? How do you know it's credible? I don't ask who is your source. I merely would like to know what is your source? How do you know it is not simply hearsay?

40k for a teacher? Then you say, "almost every school." Sorry that too sounds quite vague. Private or public schools? Sorry but it does not really get us any closer to knowing what is really happening. Don't mean to step on your toes or act like a troll, but without a credible source I really get no closer to the truth.

I have heard stories similar to your post and I remember one of my colleagues trying to investigate this all the way to the top. I never heard the outcome because I do not think he got anywhere. He got as high as an ombudsman in Bangkok. My colleague knew Bangkok gave the university money for up to 5 foreign teachers, but we never learned exactly what they gave for each teacher. This was a public university.

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by Khun Paul » March 7, 2022, 6:48 am

panorama wrote:
March 6, 2022, 11:00 pm
Khun Paul you said, ""What if I told you that every foreigner working for almost any school according to my source...." This is anecdotal information. What is your source? How do you know it's credible? I don't ask who is your source. I merely would like to know what is your source? How do you know it is not simply hearsay?

40k for a teacher? Then you say, "almost every school." Sorry that too sounds quite vague. Private or public schools? Sorry but it does not really get us any closer to knowing what is really happening. Don't mean to step on your toes or act like a troll, but without a credible source I really get no closer to the truth.

I have heard stories similar to your post and I remember one of my colleagues trying to investigate this all the way to the top. I never heard the outcome because I do not think he got anywhere. He got as high as an ombudsman in Bangkok. My colleague knew Bangkok gave the university money for up to 5 foreign teachers, but we never learned exactly what they gave for each teacher. This was a public university.
When I started I knew nothing about HOW the M of E ran in Thailand and in honesty I did not carer. But after a few years and TALKING face to face with OTHER Foreign teachers, I became aware of many many inconsistences, as luck would have it I me a Foreign English speaking teacher who not only KNEW Thai but was also fluent in at least three other languages as well as being a Moslem. He was telling me how it worked had gone to M of E for both private and Public scho9ols and asked questions relating to teachers pay and they informed him as he was also a Thai national , all the ins and outs. Scheels do get an allowance in order to0 facilitate the hiring of Native English teachers ( who comply with Ministry dictates ) also so that they can enhance the THAI TEACHER who sits in the class to ostensibly protect the children from the nasty farang giving them actual information. This is so that they can fulfill the Ministries guidelines on teaching English as a SECOND language, however the system is subject to many rules and regulations and in truth many schools skip the procedures and just hire who the hell they want . AS we all know more so when you get often Filipino TEACHERS OR TEACHERS from Some African countries , who may know English but their accents and speech make it so much harder for Thai students .

The other problem is that Directors of schools have almost carte blanche to hire or do what they want and PAY what they want and if they are entitles to receive allowances from BKK do you think for one moment they are going to advertise that . I was also lucky enough to have a good relationship with at least TWO Of the Directors of schools I worked for and they intimated to me the system is flawed and they could offer more pay but other Thai teachers would object .
So in truth it is the Foreign teacher who up against not only the system which is basically working against them and Culture which views a Foreigner telling a Thai what to do is not acceptable. We all see this daily and often although that ideology may work against the Thai they are happy with it , it seems .
Having said all that the STUDENTS who we are there to teach welcome us and like the difference in Teaching styles those students who really want to learn enjoy it and progress. So often sadly as they move up the school it changes when they realise it does not matter if they learn of not, somehow they progress through a flawed system where NO FAIL is implemented and they eventually leave school thinking they are educated and realising that they actually KNOW almost bugger all and have to start again.

For example , I was asked to assist a young man who was going to Australia to complete a masters in Engineering, he heeded help in formulating his acceptance speech and was concerned about his lack of English in having to submit minimum a 20,000 word treatise every month.
Well to start with this young man seemed keen and stated he would be okay because he learnt English and his father was paying for this and the University course in Australia. He did not turn up for his education with me and went to Australia , failed as they told him Two months intensive ENGLISH tutoring may get him to a proficient enough level to learn.
He returned to Thailand bitterly complaining as he had apparently passed all his PREVIOUS exams and courses in THAILAND , but in truth his English was no better than a 20 year old initial student on an English course for beginners`. Thailand rarely FAILS students and it is only when they go outside the country do they realise that to their anger.

You will never get names and places, but turst me the sytem is so flawed that it is amazing the children actually learn anything in my book , but one has to keep fighting like my friend in BKK still keeps banging the drum about change . AS DO I whenever I get the chance.

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by Drunk Monkey » March 7, 2022, 7:09 am

Khun Paul wrote:
March 7, 2022, 6:48 am
panorama wrote:
March 6, 2022, 11:00 pm
Khun Paul you said, ""What if I told you that every foreigner working for almost any school according to my source...." This is anecdotal information. What is your source? How do you know it's credible? I don't ask who is your source. I merely would like to know what is your source? How do you know it is not simply hearsay?

40k for a teacher? Then you say, "almost every school." Sorry that too sounds quite vague. Private or public schools? Sorry but it does not really get us any closer to knowing what is really happening. Don't mean to step on your toes or act like a troll, but without a credible source I really get no closer to the truth.

I have heard stories similar to your post and I remember one of my colleagues trying to investigate this all the way to the top. I never heard the outcome because I do not think he got anywhere. He got as high as an ombudsman in Bangkok. My colleague knew Bangkok gave the university money for up to 5 foreign teachers, but we never learned exactly what they gave for each teacher. This was a public university.
When I started I knew nothing about HOW the M of E ran in Thailand and in honesty I did not carer. But after a few years and TALKING face to face with OTHER Foreign teachers, I became aware of many many inconsistences, as luck would have it I me a Foreign English speaking teacher who not only KNEW Thai but was also fluent in at least three other languages as well as being a Moslem. He was telling me how it worked had gone to M of E for both private and Public scho9ols and asked questions relating to teachers pay and they informed him as he was also a Thai national , all the ins and outs. Scheels do get an allowance in order to0 facilitate the hiring of Native English teachers ( who comply with Ministry dictates ) also so that they can enhance the THAI TEACHER who sits in the class to ostensibly protect the children from the nasty farang giving them actual information. This is so that they can fulfill the Ministries guidelines on teaching English as a SECOND language, however the system is subject to many rules and regulations and in truth many schools skip the procedures and just hire who the hell they want . AS we all know more so when you get often Filipino TEACHERS OR TEACHERS from Some African countries , who may know English but their accents and speech make it so much harder for Thai students .

The other problem is that Directors of schools have almost carte blanche to hire or do what they want and PAY what they want and if they are entitles to receive allowances from BKK do you think for one moment they are going to advertise that . I was also lucky enough to have a good relationship with at least TWO Of the Directors of schools I worked for and they intimated to me the system is flawed and they could offer more pay but other Thai teachers would object .
So in truth it is the Foreign teacher who up against not only the system which is basically working against them and Culture which views a Foreigner telling a Thai what to do is not acceptable. We all see this daily and often although that ideology may work against the Thai they are happy with it , it seems .
Having said all that the STUDENTS who we are there to teach welcome us and like the difference in Teaching styles those students who really want to learn enjoy it and progress. So often sadly as they move up the school it changes when they realise it does not matter if they learn of not, somehow they progress through a flawed system where NO FAIL is implemented and they eventually leave school thinking they are educated and realising that they actually KNOW almost bugger all and have to start again.

For example , I was asked to assist a young man who was going to Australia to complete a masters in Engineering, he heeded help in formulating his acceptance speech and was concerned about his lack of English in having to submit minimum a 20,000 word treatise every month.
Well to start with this young man seemed keen and stated he would be okay because he learnt English and his father was paying for this and the University course in Australia. He did not turn up for his education with me and went to Australia , failed as they told him Two months intensive ENGLISH tutoring may get him to a proficient enough level to learn.
He returned to Thailand bitterly complaining as he had apparently passed all his PREVIOUS exams and courses in THAILAND , but in truth his English was no better than a 20 year old initial student on an English course for beginners`. Thailand rarely FAILS students and it is only when they go outside the country do they realise that to their anger.

You will never get names and places, but turst me the sytem is so flawed that it is amazing the children actually learn anything in my book , but one has to keep fighting like my friend in BKK still keeps banging the drum about change . AS DO I whenever I get the chance.
KP ... as a native speaker i read your post twice and came to the conclusion that allowing for fat fingers , early morning sleep in eyes and waiting to consume your first coffee as to fully engage the brain i think its safe to say all parents with kids of school age should thank their lucky stars you are no longer in the teaching profession... only pulling yer leg :lol: :lol:

That said having spent several years teaching in numerous locations and various age groups and levels i do agree with some of your points (i think). I was so pleased to get out of teaching here as in all honesty i didnt really enjoy it , the BS and corruption the whole system includes ...oh yeah and i soon realized i didnt like obnoxious kids whose parents thought they were all mini Albert Enstiens who simply could not fail an exam as they had paid the school fees :shock:

Only my opinion ..

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by Khun Paul » March 7, 2022, 10:43 am

Thankyou for your comments, which if I tool literally would enrage me, however knowing that at best you are a better businessman than you were a teacher makesw me offer the same sentiments towards you with doorknobs as well.
have a nice day

PS : If I even criticised all on here for their english mistakes which is due in the majority of times to typos and bad spelling I would have a full time job , so I nbever go there, suggestion you do the same okay !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by Drunk Monkey » March 7, 2022, 3:23 pm

Khun Paul wrote:
March 7, 2022, 10:43 am
Thankyou for your comments, which if I tool literally would enrage me, however knowing that at best you are a better businessman than you were a teacher makesw me offer the same sentiments towards you with doorknobs as well.
have a nice day

PS : If I even criticised all on here for their english mistakes which is due in the majority of times to typos and bad spelling I would have a full time job , so I nbever go there, suggestion you do the same okay !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Spoli sport .. i quite enjoy proof reading your posts KP :lol: .. its easy to have a few typos ..in most cases im posting via my phone so my chubby finger n failing eyesight can be an issue whats your excuse ???
Assuming i was a sh8t teacher .. rather an unpleasant comment ..so just to confirm my teaching qualication was done in Guilford UK to British standards ..there after another tefl in Bkk via South Eadt Asia Uni ... not a Khaosan copy n paste ..i actually did it properly n turned up fully capable of actually educating not just a clueless white face in the classroom

Just sayin

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by Khun Paul » March 7, 2022, 4:03 pm

I never doubted your quals, therefore indicates I touched on a sensitive issue maybe. I stated you were a better businessman than teacher which would indicate your teaching was not in question .
NOT TO WORRY I am sure you will be able to sort that out mentally.
Myh excuse is I just often cannot be bothered to check each and every post, if you wish to complain be my guest, I will just ignore it as usual not caring one jot what people say. If I wish to make a point I will with erudition and clarification so that the intended person will know exactly what I am saying and feel a tad uncomfortable, but generally I do not care .

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by Drunk Monkey » March 7, 2022, 7:35 pm

Khun Paul wrote:
March 7, 2022, 4:03 pm
I never doubted your quals, therefore indicates I touched on a sensitive issue maybe. I stated you were a better businessman than teacher which would indicate your teaching was not in question .
NOT TO WORRY I am sure you will be able to sort that out mentally.
Myh excuse is I just often cannot be bothered to check each and every post, if you wish to complain be my guest, I will just ignore it as usual not caring one jot what people say. If I wish to make a point I will with erudition and clarification so that the intended person will know exactly what I am saying and feel a tad uncomfortable, but generally I do not care .
The usual and to be expected pompous and condescending reply KP .. the only people who know just if im a successful businessman or not are myself n Dao .. any others its just pure speculation.. as for teaching i gained my qualifications so i could teach here as a stepping stone and got out as soon as financially could .. i have ever puffed out my academic chest and claimed to be anything special as i knew it was o ly gonna be for a short period of time ..the fact that after i gained my qualifications i went in to teach English , Geography and Si gapore based Math relatively successfully at both goverment and private schools and at a Bkk Uni is something i remain quite proud of but not a profession i would ever consider again as as the years have passed i know my limitations and level of patience would not be within keeping in a classroom.environment ... im.happy to leave that to the experts...lots of them.here.

My chubby fingers are sore and its time for my horlicks ..

Have a smashing evening

DM
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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by Khun Paul » March 8, 2022, 6:50 am

Oh the rambling goes on and on, dear dM has got the bit between his teeth about his teaching I am sure, something that has been said ranhled him, poor chap.
Ph well wew allnow that the Education system here is a mess, and will continue to be so until some-one with intelligence in relation to Educational matters takes over the M of E.

On another note I have been updated by my friends Bangkok, stating that the allowances for Native English teachers was instituted by PM Yingluk, and have slowly been erased and in some cases stopped , especially by this Government as it is reported the current PM stated that everyone will eventually speak THAI everywhere !!!.

This may be the reason that English Proficiency generally has declined as because the Schools are now making LESS money as the cream has been removed the quality of teachers teaching English as declined as schools are NOT offering a living wage. Those foreigners that are employed are not as good and there is NO reason to improve skills of Thai teachers it seems.

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Re: Don Bosco, DB Smart, English Program M.1-M4 Costs

Post by Drunk Monkey » March 8, 2022, 7:27 am

Khun Paul wrote:
March 8, 2022, 6:50 am
Oh the rambling goes on and on, dear dM has got the bit between his teeth about his teaching I am sure, something that has been said ranhled him, poor chap.
I refer the right honourable member for Udon East to my previous post.

Pompous and condescending .. i rest my case Mlurd...guilty as charged !!

btw nothing been said and not in the slightest ranhled (new word alert) ????? just pointed out your assumption you are always correct and blindly xenophobic and hipocritical attitude towards most thread topics and members... poor chap !!

DM
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L2 Season 19/20 Codheads 0 Scunny 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2qrsItFUug
8 minutes is the point of lift off !!!!!!!

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