Radical Islam (opinion)

[MrFixer]

I don't think borders will be redrawn - can't undo what has been done.
What can you say to the 28-year-old muslim man sitting in a gloomy apartment outside Paris. Never had a job. Sits at home all day watching IS propaganda videos and browsing social media for the latest news of the 'Caliphate'. Mistakes have been made in the past (the West meddling too much in the Middle East and Africa). We should have left them to fight it out amongst themselves, but its too late now. We are where we are...

[noosard]

Some borders have been undone
Peacefully for now
Others are just borders of chaos
The Brits drew a lot of these borders, to suit themselves

[hairyharry]

The situation in Paris seems to be a win-win scenario for the Brits.

[Bandung_Dero]

I don't think borders will be redrawn - can't undo what has been done.
What can you say to the 28-year-old muslim man sitting in a gloomy apartment outside Paris. Never had a job. Sits at home all day watching IS propaganda videos and browsing social media for the latest news of the 'Caliphate'. Mistakes have been made in the past (the West meddling too much in the Middle East and Africa). We should have left them to fight it out amongst themselves, but its too late now. We are where we are...

Yes 'Hind Sight" is a wonderful thing. I'm starting to lean toward the opinions of those who agree that the likes of Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi left to be in control of their empires (barbaric as they were BY WESTERN STANDARDS) and let nature take it's coarse. At least they had control of a heap of fruit loops with alternative agendas.

[MrFixer]

Saddam, Gaddhafi et al were monsters, but they were keeping in check a bunch of other monsters.
Surely EU leaders must now be very concerned about letting so many refugees into the Schengen area. Mostly unchecked and undocumented. I don't doubt that the vast majority are genuine, but it stretches credibility not to suspect that at least a tiny percentage would be IS members/sympathisers. Possibly given money and encouragement to infiltrate Europe and wage war from the inside out? That would be my thinking if I were an IS strategist.
With an estimated 1.5M refugees predicted to arrive in Germany this year, then if only 0.01% were IS fanatics that equates to 150 people. The Paris attacks were apparently carried by 8 fanatics.....
These fanatics would be able travel unchecked across 26 Schengen countries - probably with assistance from in-country sympathisers.
Can you imagine the propaganda and terror impact of simultaneous attacks in multiple European capitals? EU security services must now be absolutely terrified.

[Barney]

Don't know this guy Dr Bill Warner but he has an opinion on Radical Islamic and its history.
His perspective takes a few minutes to watch. If you have a lazy 45 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y

[ronan01]

Love won’t conquer IS, Waleed

"When love and unity are your central message you cloak yourself with a degree of immunity from criticism, which is precisely why Waleed Aly and populist politicians preach only compassion in the face of Islamist atrocities.

Aly’s core element of truth is that the terrorists want to foment division. But he echoes their logic by suggesting it is the reaction of the broader community that sows division; that hatred somehow comes from our reaction to terrorism rather than the terror itself."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscri ... =anonymous

[ronan01]

In an official written statement, the Grand Mufti of Australia and the National Imams Council sheeted the blame not onto extremism but instead what Western society has done to cause it.

“These recent incidents highlight the fact that current strategies to deal with the threat of terrorism are not working,” the statement said. “It is therefore imperative that all causative factors such as racism, Islamophobia, curtailing freedoms through securitisation, duplicitous foreign policies and military intervention must be comprehensively addressed.”

Far from condemning the terrorists, it appeared to condemn the nation for not bending to their will.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/rendez ... 7611384439

[jackspratt]

In an official written statement, the Grand Mufti of Australia and the National Imams Council sheeted the blame not onto extremism but instead what Western society has done to cause it.

“These recent incidents highlight the fact that current strategies to deal with the threat of terrorism are not working,” the statement said. “It is therefore imperative that all causative factors such as racism, Islamophobia, curtailing freedoms through securitisation, duplicitous foreign policies and military intervention must be comprehensively addressed.”

Thanks for that ronan - it seems to me that the Grand Mufti has made some very valid points, and very much worthy of further discussion.

Intelligent and thoughtful people (which, based on this comment, the GM seems to be) are able to see big issues in terms of shades of grey. On the other hand, others - which generally includes those of the rigid political right - can only ever see black and white.

ps Uncle Rupert thanks you for being a subscriber.

[noosard]

Could it be because the grand mufti is a Sunni
So his sympathies lie in that direction

[ronan01]

In an official written statement, the Grand Mufti of Australia and the National Imams Council sheeted the blame not onto extremism but instead what Western society has done to cause it.

“These recent incidents highlight the fact that current strategies to deal with the threat of terrorism are not working,” the statement said. “It is therefore imperative that all causative factors such as racism, Islamophobia, curtailing freedoms through securitisation, duplicitous foreign policies and military intervention must be comprehensively addressed.”

Thanks for that ronan - it seems to me that the Grand Mufti has made some very valid points, and very much worthy of further discussion.

Intelligent and thoughtful people (which, based on this comment, the GM seems to be) are able to see big issues in terms of shades of grey. On the other hand, others - which generally includes those of the rigid political right - can only ever see black and white.

ps Uncle Rupert thanks you for being a subscriber.

What else could you say Comrade Mustapha? Allah will smile upon you

[papafarang]

hey ronan, I don't agree with everything you say. but fully understand your point of view. no one wants to go to war. it's idiotic. but when the future of our culture is threatened we have to react. no one wanted war with Hitler, but in the end we had no choice, and were on that same road again sadly

[ronan01]

Two days after Islamic State’s targeted carnage in Paris, ASIO Director General Duncan Lewis chose his words carefully when describing the terrorists.


“These people are anti-Western,” he told the ABC.

“Australia has, of course, been a terrorist target long before we became engaged in the Middle East, as you know. But we are as a culture, we are as a society, objectionable to them and they want to attack us, they want to destroy us.”

Islamist fascists want to kill us because of who we are: decadent unbelievers, in their view.

It’s not, as the Grand Mufti says, because we are Islamophobic or racist or because of our foreign policy.

The sisters of perpetual outrage are selective with their social consciences.

They fuss about rampant Islamophobia, which exists only in the imagination of professional victims.

They are the ones who have created the atmosphere in which the Grand Mufti thinks it is acceptable to offer a cursory condolence for the victims in Paris but then blame “causative factors such as racism, Islamophobia, curtailing freedoms through securitisation, duplicitous foreign policies and military intervention”.

The only excuse he didn’t list was climate change.

Effectively he justified the unjustifiable. Unless we submit we should expect the consequences of our “causation”.

He doesn’t represent most Muslims in Australia, who are embarrassed by his blunders.

But he is a product of a wilfully ignorant, sanctimonious Left which keeps providing cover for Islamo-fascism, without realising it is a suicide mission.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/rendez ... 7612935269

[GT93]

The Grand Mufti is looking at the big picture as will be western policy makers. It's oh so easy to throw away another trillion or two for sod all if wound up in the drums of hatred for Muslims. Bombs and soldiers on the ground alone won't solve the problems facing policy makers.

[jackspratt]

Sensible, balanced commentary from an Australian Muslim - well worth a look. =D>

[noosard]

The Grand Mufti is looking at the big picture as will be western policy makers. It's oh so easy to throw away another trillion or two for sod all if wound up in the drums of hatred for Muslims. Bombs and soldiers on the ground alone won't solve the problems facing policy makers.

So what is the solution ?
Better fences ?
Stop spending money on security ?

[papafarang]

how long has this conflict been going on, 1400 years and nothing has changed, at a guess we have another 1400 years of it to do. no matter what we do another radical will be born tomorrow. in truth there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. all this talk about radicals is just hot air. the one and only way to stop it is ban their book, which is not going to happen

[Udon Map]

how long has this conflict been going on, 1400 years and nothing has changed, at a guess we have another 1400 years of it to do. no matter what we do another radical will be born tomorrow. in truth there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. all this talk about radicals is just hot air. the one and only way to stop it is ban their book, which is not going to happen

I view it slightly differently, Dean. I wouldn't ban the book. They're killing loads of people indiscriminately. Does it matter why?

Think about World War 2. Should our approach to Germany or Japan have depended on why they were following the policies they chose? Does it matter whether it was because of megalomania, nationalistic expansion, religion or whatever? I suggest that it does not. They had to be stopped, regardless of why they were doing it.

Same applies here. They're free to believe whatever they want about God, Mohammed, or whatever. They aren't free to murder everyone who disagrees with their view of things.

[ronan01]

Muslims let down by Grand Mufti

Senior WA Muslim leaders joined Federal Government ministers yesterday in criticising the Grand Mufti of Australia after he suggested “Islamophobia” was to blame for the Paris terror attacks.

Ibrahim Abu Mohammed issued a statement soon after the attacks in which he mourned the loss of life but warned of the “causative factors” that led to the killings.

The Grand Mufti suggested that fear of Muslims, the loss of freedom from security policies and “duplicitous foreign policies” were partly to blame for the attacks at the weekend.

“In addition, any discourse which attempts to apportion blame by association or sensationalise violence to stigmatise a certain segment of society only serves to undermine community harmony and safety,” Dr Ibrahim said.

Immigration Minister Peter Dutton said the Grand Mufti needed to clarify his comments.

“Can you imagine if the leader of the Catholic Church, an archbishop in this country, had made qualified comments condemning somebody who had been convicted or had committed an offence against a child, a sexual offence against a child,” he said.

“If a priest came out, an archbishop came out, and said, ‘Well, it’s terrible but we need to consider the fact that this priest was abused himself during his childhood, or he had a difficult upbringing, or he was bullied, or he had been the subject of racist rants, or whatever’, and somehow that would qualify the condemnation of those acts, people would be outraged.”

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/ ... and-mufti/

[papafarang]

this really is a subject with no real answers , kind of a rock and a hard place, self perpetuating. the more we go after militants the more we upset moderates thus creating more radicals. what the answer is even escapes the most logical ideas and thoughts