Computers and Ledger Books

[stattointhailand]

Statto, I'm sorry to say this but you are a div when it comes to this subject.

Thanks OT ...... What, by the way, makes you think that originals and/or their backups will be kept after their "useful" period of time has elapsed.
Why would any IT depts leave information like ships passenger lists, Trade Union membership docs, Electoral Registers on computer files for a hundred years?

[Stantheman]

Statto, I'm sorry to say this but you are a div when it comes to this subject.

Thanks OT ...... What, by the way, makes you think that originals and/or their backups will be kept after their "useful" period of time has elapsed.
Why would any IT depts leave information like ships passenger lists, Trade Union membership docs, Electoral Registers on computer files for a hundred years?

The big question is even if the IT people kept the record would the "old" technology still be available to access the information. I had access to some old 1980 era 8 inch floppy disks but doubt there is a reader that is still around to play the disks in or the software to interpret the data.

[noosard]

So someone has kept a few thousand old floppy disc in storage but not kept the floppy drives
come on get rea

[stattointhailand]

So someone has kept a few thousand old floppy disc in storage but not kept the floppy drives
come on get rea

Sounds about 100% real to me. Don't know how many times IT (Idiot Techies) have updated (improved?) progs and told users "oh, you can't do or use that anymore"

[noosard]

What makes you think all this paperwork ie invoices ect are going to be kept for 100 or more years
ALL

[stattointhailand]

They wont all survive ..... but SOME will, and those that do will be valuable historical documents

[old-timer]

They wont all survive ..... but SOME will, and those that do will be valuable historical documents

Only pulling your leg with the div remark earlier statto.
However, you can fuss as much as you want you cant stop the inevitable.
OT has tried the Kindle and launched it through the unopened patio doors after three days, it gave me a headache and blurred my vision, so I would hate to see books become entirely paperless.

OT....................

[JimboPSM]

While all of this can be a bit of fun for discussion on forums, in business there is a serious side with legal requirements (and with all kinds of fun fines and penalties for non-compliance).

For those interested (or for those suffering from chronic insomnia) a couple of articles that give a flavour of the problems faced by business

A bit from the “Accountingweb” about original or electronic copies:

Original or electronic copy

Code of practice ‘BSI BIP 0008’ is the guidance to follow when considering electronic documents and scanned images. A written audit trail is required (which could form part of the document retention policy) to provide evidence that the original copy has been scanned and subsequently destroyed. This will enable the electronic copy to be allowed as evidence in any subsequent civil proceedings under the Civil Evidence Act 1968 and in criminal proceedings under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984.

The code gives guidance on the appropriate processes to follow to ensure documents can be authenticated, best practice in relation to procedures for storing and accessing documents (including scanning, indexing, retrieving, archiving, off-site storing and training) and the methods by which adherence to the code can be demonstrated. Unfortunately the code cannot be downloaded for free but compliance is recommended should a firm decide to go paperless.

HMRC does not appear to mind in which format you keep records but they do require that should you upgrade to a new computer system not compatible with a previous system that the records held on that previous system be assessable for up to six years; if this is not possible, then paper copies must be made.

Emails are also ‘documents’ and are not yet covered by one single act in the UK. A separate email retention policy can be created as a sub policy to the main document retention policy to include the use of software that automatically deletes or archives emails past a certain age or imposes limits on the number of emails per inbox.

The Email Laundry provides good advice, should you wish to include emails in your retention policy. Additional useful guidance for accountancy firms thinking of going paperless can be found in the ‘ICAEW Document Retention Help Sheet 20’ and online from Bluefin Professions.

Full article: http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/article/ ... ght/540212

.... and from “The Law Donut”:

From chaos to compliance: adapting records retention to the digital age

August 19, 2013 by Christian Toon

In principle, document retention should be a straightforward part of a responsible information management plan. You work out what you want or need to keep, archive it securely and destroy it in line with national guidelines. Job done, what’s next?

The reality couldn’t be further from the truth.

First of all, Europe is awash with complex document retention laws. There are different laws for different types of records ─ ranging from a few months to 20 years or more. These laws differ between countries and between industry sectors and, most confusingly of all, keep changing.

Documents that are kept for too long risk breaching data privacy and protection laws, while documents that are destroyed too soon could put you in breach of e-disclosure law. So it is hardly surprising that 35% of mid-market firms in Europe have opted to keep all paper and electronic documents ‘just in case’. In terms of industry sector, 39% of financial services firms and 45% of manufacturing and engineering firms hang on to everything.

Nowhere is the impact of this widespread confusion and concern more apparent than in the case of digital communications such as emails, text messages and social media posts. In contrast to the approach above, many companies appear to be responding to these new record formats by not keeping track of them at all.

A recent study by global information trade body AIIM found that while 73% of firms now include emails in their corporate retention policies, most rely upon manual processes for deleting them. In 55% of firms, employees are left to save or delete emails as they see fit. Such an unmanaged, employee-led approach is particularly risky in view of the growing number of high-profile lawsuits that have relied extensively on email evidence, such as the recent phone hacking scandal.

An additional problem with implementing retention strategies for electronic communications such as email is that multiple copies are likely to exist on desktops, mobiles and laptops – and it can be near impossible to track down and manage all of these.

It gets worse. What should a company do, for example, when the information it needs was included in a text message exchange carried out on a work phone but deleted when the employee left the firm?

For most firms, social media content management isn’t even on the radar. The AIIM study found that less than 15% of organisations include external social media posts in their company retention schedules. This failure to treat social media as valid company records could be down to a number of factors, including a practical need to offset risk against resources. For many firms, however, the fast-moving world of social media can simply seem too difficult to track or capture.

Yet, of those firms that did treat social media posts as records, a third has made use of them. A small but significant 27% had used them to resolve a customer complaint or dispute and 17% had used them in staff disciplinary action – two areas of considerable reputational importance.

It is perhaps telling that, according to AIIM, a third of firms haven’t given anyone overall responsibility for the governance of instant messaging, mobile and external social media content. This lack of ownership suggests that the situation is likely to get worse before it gets better. This is extremely worrying in today’s increasingly litigious business environment, where both companies and consumers better understand and insist upon their rights.

Are we heading for a perfect storm as organisations are hit by more information yet insist on either hoarding or ignoring it so as not to fall foul of the constantly changing, complex retention laws? The fact that it is as dangerous to hold something for too long – such as personal data or unsuccessful job applications – as it is to destroy something too soon – such as email correspondence required for a lawsuit or details on health hazards – is clearly overwhelming many firms.

Legal organisations and information management firms have a duty of care to help companies navigate their way through this rapidly evolving landscape and seize control of all their information. The line between too soon and too late is a very fine one and we all balance better with something solid to hold on to.

Blog supplied by Christian Toon, who is responsible for developing and implementing information security policy, standards, goals and strategy for Iron Mountain Europe, provider of storage and information management solutions.

Original article: http://www.lawdonut.co.uk/blog/2013/08/ ... igital-age

In the past I have been responsible for company "document retention" and have had documents copied on to what was the latest "fashionable" media, e.g. microfilm, microfiche, and in more recent times computer document images (of which there are a multiplicity of types).

I wonder if anyone today knows where all that microfilm and microfiche is stored, what condition the microfilm and microfiche readers might be in to read them and even whether the microfilm and microfiche are even still readable after all these years or have just crumbled to dust?

[old-timer]

I wonder if anyone today knows where all that microfilm and microfiche is stored, what condition the microfilm and microfiche readers might be in to read them and even whether the microfilm and microfiche are even still readable after all these years or have just crumbled to dust?

Sounds like pen and paper was a much better option than microfilm and microfiche. It's funny how such things were even used at all without someone looking into how long it would physically last. Easy to say in hindsight I suppose.
Nowadays we look at everything under a microscope to cover every eventuality. Or so we think, looking back in 30 years time we may well think we must have been complete dunces back in 2015.

OT..........

[bluejets]

During a visit to the Aus Embassy in preparation for application for a 309 visa for my wife, I had to produce evidence of previous divorce ( certified of course) so I handed them a 4 gig memory stick with the JPG image.

Needless to say they weren't impressed and just short of them wanting to throw me out on the street, I produced a paper original.

My guess was they've been living in Thailand too long and just lost their natural Aussie sense of humor.
Wife wasn't impressed either, thankfully now after nearly 3 years she eventually sees the funny side.

Apart from that, does anyone remember the term "paperless society"? It was a term bandied about by many a yuppie, who today, given half a chance will want to "run off a paper copy".

[Barney]

Apart from that, does anyone remember the term "paperless society"? It was a term bandied about by many a yuppie, who today, given half a chance will want to "run off a paper copy".

Ah Yes Bluejets well picked up =D> , remember it well. In industrial construction the computer was going to stop all that paper being produced and then came "the QA empire", then came "the safety empire" etc etc both the equivalent of the Ming dynasty, now just things to make a supervisors life hell and have him constantly doing paper work.

Oh how the paper mills must be smiling now. :-"

[pf-flyer]

[quote="Barney"][quote="bluejets"]

Apart from that, does anyone remember the term "paperless society"? It was a term bandied about by many a yuppie, who today, given half a chance will want to "run off a paper copy".[/quote]

Ah Yes Bluejets well picked up =D> , remember it well. In industrial construction the computer was going to stop all that paper being produced and then came "the QA empire", then came "the safety empire" etc etc both the equivalent of the Ming dynasty, now just things to make a supervisors life hell and have him constantly doing paper work.

Oh how the paper mills must be smiling now. :-"[/quote]

Yes the Paper mills are smiling. A Lot of People including those yuppies want a hard copy. The usage of paper skyrocketed with the availability of low cost locally attached printers and Network printers, Networked Copy machines. Printer paper is ordered by the palette. There is so much paper being used that there are company's that offer paper shredding and paper recycling services.

[pf-flyer]

Our University Library started digitizing the entire contents of the library about 8 years ago. Needless to say it was a huge project. The Project was named " Libraries without walls ". It did not reduce the paper consumption in the library computer labs. The goal was not to reduce paper consumption but to increase access to the libraries materials online.
Note: The students have pay per page to print on the library computer lab network printer. They are not so quick to print off a hard copy.

[parrot]

This could be an interesting story to follow........computers.....ledger books.....and a billion++ Baht missing.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general ... sealed-off

[noosard]

Gone are the days of carrying a folder full of sheets and documents, wasting stacks of paper. Now, it is much easier to store everything electronically. You can transform your documents into digital form...

Please credit and share this article with others using this link:http://www.bangkokpost.com/tech/review/549383/scannable. View our policies at http://goo.gl/9HgTd and http://goo.gl/ou6Ip. © Post Publishing PCL. All rights reserved.

[parrot]

Gone are the days of carrying a folder full of sheets and documents, wasting stacks of paper. Now, it is much easier to store everything electronically. You can transform your documents into digital form...

Please credit and share this article with others using this link:http://www.bangkokpost.com/tech/review/549383/scannable. View our policies at http://goo.gl/9HgTd and http://goo.gl/ou6Ip. © Post Publishing PCL. All rights reserved.

Not for the Luddites in the audience, but you can:
- lighten the load on your wallet by taking smartphone photos of your passport (for banks, for the police) and business cards
- dispense with ever carrying an airline ticket again
- carry a copy of most any document with you wherever you go.....DD214, wills, tax info, land papers, vehicle documents, insurance papers, photo of your license plate
- photos of things I need to buy......CR3232 batteries vs CR2016 batteries.....a photo of my wife's cell phone battery instead of taking the phone to town when I look for one.
- reencrypted versions of my difficult to remember passwords in case I need them while on the road
Enough for now........have to go out and protect those stocking frames.

[jackspratt]

Dedicated to statto - if he is still looking in: