A dispute of global warming from eastern Europe

General off-topic debates and discussions forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
WBU ALUM
udonmap.com
Posts: 3240
Joined: July 29, 2008, 11:40 pm
Location: When I'm logged in, UdonMap

Re: A dispute of global warming from eastern Europe

Post by WBU ALUM » December 30, 2009, 6:26 pm

ronan01 wrote:Oh no!!!! Not the "Overwhelming scientific consensus" thing again. This tired old cliche is about as reliable as "peer review". Both these statements are grossly over-used by "true believers" when people question them and their alarmist views. The only "concensus" is from the snout in the trough scientists who have been riding the IPCC gravy train for far too long. I find it unusual that the "majority" of geologists - you know those scientists who have studied the earth and its structures for a long time - are not global warming believers. I think its pretty clear that Gore (and similar) have cynically used this topic for their own selfish purposes. The IPCC data (or at least some of it) is available of their website - it is very poor, and the models that use the data have not been audited or validated by anybody. Some "scientists" are more interested in being alarmist in order to secure the next round of "research" funding. The scientific comunity are not even close to agreeing on "global warming", let alone warming due to human activity. Carbon trading is a scam based on poor science.
ronan01, this looks amazingly similar to my views. Excellent analysis! =D>



User avatar
Pakawala
udonmap.com
Posts: 1315
Joined: August 3, 2006, 9:29 pm
Location: A golf course when not at home.

Re: A dispute of global warming from eastern Europe

Post by Pakawala » December 30, 2009, 9:53 pm

Yes Ronan, you, I and WBU understand the scam being presented by the global warming alarmists but you just can't get some of these clowns to take an objective look at the available data without inserting their own jaundiced opinion and views. [-( So sad.

User avatar
rick
udonmap.com
Posts: 3238
Joined: January 9, 2008, 10:36 am
Location: Udon, or UK May-August

Re: A dispute of global warming from eastern Europe

Post by rick » December 31, 2009, 6:15 am

Well, I know i am unlikely to change the outlook of our global warming skeptics, although i do sometimes wonder why they seem so confident they are right. But, just a thought, if global warming is happening (and if human induced is not all that relevant), what will its affects be? And how will this affect us?

The main affect will be some places on earth will become less desirable to live, others more so. One of the main problems is availability of water. Due to the worlds high population, if water supplies reduce, alot of people in that area will need to do one of 3 things :- die, use less water, or move. Although we cannot be absolutely certain where will be affected and by how much, we do have some good indications. The Indian subcontinent will possibly suffer severely, if the Indus and Ganges loose there year round water supply from the Himalayas. 1.5 billion people, I wonder how many of them will need to move? Africa, another billion or so. Coming to a temperate country near you. if you are scared about immigration, so far you have just seen the tip of the iceberg.

That is why we need to be worried about global warming, because it is not something which you can lock out at the borders. And why, these days, you need to know what is happening in the whole world, not just how much your tax is going up or down and the Dow Jones is performing. Problems are now global, and need global answers.

User avatar
Pakawala
udonmap.com
Posts: 1315
Joined: August 3, 2006, 9:29 pm
Location: A golf course when not at home.

Re: A dispute of global warming from eastern Europe

Post by Pakawala » December 31, 2009, 7:37 am

Doing a bit of speculating, eh Rick? :-k

You make it sound like all of India and Africa will be migrating very soon... maybe next year? Or maybe not until next century or next millennium at least. Hurry, hurry, the sky is falling, the sky is falling!! Hopefully, if we give all our money to the IPCC they will spend it wisely... or maybe not. :confused:

User avatar
rick
udonmap.com
Posts: 3238
Joined: January 9, 2008, 10:36 am
Location: Udon, or UK May-August

Re: A dispute of global warming from eastern Europe

Post by rick » December 31, 2009, 9:50 am

Not all of them. But 10% would still be the biggest migration so far. 250 million more to fit into the northern temperate zone (not much temperate zone down south). As for how long, there are already shortages of water now and some estimates suggest substantial loss of glaciers within 30 years (some within 10, already problems in the Andes). Glaciers are the main source of dry season river flow from higher mountaineous areas like the Andes, Rocky mountains and Himalayas. You need to spend the money to deal with the problems somewhere, either on prevention or dealing with the consequences . Maybe 250 million bullets?

ronan01
udonmap.com
Posts: 2226
Joined: February 15, 2007, 11:23 am
Location: PERTH, AUSTRALIA

Re: A dispute of global warming from eastern Europe

Post by ronan01 » December 31, 2009, 10:08 am

A review of history (ancient and modern) will show that "climate change" has set the course of human activity and conflict for a long time. There have been many "mass migrations" due to crop failures or similar - the Cimbri (from around Holland area) packed up and started wandering around 2000 years ago because rising sea levels rendered their land useless - about 200 000 of them set off on a trek south and soon came into conflict with the Roman Empire, this conflict set the scene for development on Europe for hunfreds of years thereafter. I doubt a carbon trading scheme would have saved their land.

The "believers" seem to have a notion that everything must stay the way it is - a silly idea - nothing stays the same forever. The earth (and its climate) has been in a state of flux since its creation, and it is reasonable to expect that change will continue. With climate change there will be winners and losers over long time periods.

Much is said about "saving the planet" - the planet will be here long after humans - and maybe that is the problem - population growth and consumption - not carbon. As for hundreds of millions of Indians moving because of lack of water - I think (sadly) that more will die than move.

Linking over population and global warming is just another scare tactic.

Maybe the Himalaya water source will be affected - maybe not - I undertand the himalayas grow taller every year (the Indian plate pushing into the Asian plate) - so maybe over long time periods there will be even more snow/ice there due to higher elevations.

Maybe it would be better to push for compulsary contraception in India? I recall not lonng ago that the "west" castigated China for its 1 child policy and for restricting the "rights" of its citizens. Now the Chinese have eased off a bit and they are becoming consumers just like us - I smell double standards. No wonder China and India are sceptical about "carbon schemes".

Post Reply

Return to “General Debates & Discussions”