France does it again.

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Galee
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France does it again.

Post by Galee » May 27, 2009, 3:46 pm

And the French wonder why us Brits are not too keen on them. :shock:

As far as Hollywood is concerned, World War II was an all-American affair. They've been at it again at this month's Cannes Film Festival where Quentin Tarantino has rewritten the story of Britain's Jewish commandos and made them American for his new film, Inglourious Basterds.

The Great Escape? On screen, it's a bunch of brave Yanks plus a few plucky Brits. In reality, not a single American was involved.

Most famous of all is Saving Private Ryan, Spielberg's D-Day epic, which presents the Normandy landings as a U.S.- only affair, without a Brit or Canadian in sight.
Who won the war? America did - if you believe Hollywood (see Saving Private Ryan). But while it's one thing with film, it's wrong when governments take creative licence

Who won the war? America did - if you believe Hollywood (see Saving Private Ryan). But while it's one thing with film, it's wrong when governments take creative licence

It was the same with the film U-571. On screen, American heroes capture a U-boat, find the crucial code-breaking machine and win the war.

In reality, the British had captured the machine and were cracking the code before America had even entered the war, while U-571 was sunk by the Australians (the screenwriter did have the grace to apologise).

Personally, I do not have a great problem with this. Saving Private Ryan and The Great Escape are cracking movies and I do not begrudge Hollywood its artistic licence if that is the only way to get World War II on the big screen.

But I do object when this mindset creeps into real life, especially when it reaches the highest level. And that is about to happen ten days from now.

If you turn up in France on June 6, the 65th anniversary of D-Day - the invasion which really did win the war - you are in for a surprise. Because, if you did not know better, you would imagine that D-Day was all down to the Americans - with a little help from the French.

The British? The Canadians? The rest of the Commonwealth? The Poles? Just take a seat somewhere at the back and, please, don't bother President Nicolas Sarkozy while he's whispering sweet nothings to President Barack Obama.

After months of dithering and muddle, it has now been confirmed that only the heads of state of France and America will be marking D-Day on the beaches where it all happened. The head of state of Britain and Canada - who happens to be the same person - will not.

No matter that the Queen is the only head of state alive who served in uniform during that war. No matter that her father's British and Canadian troops stormed three out of the five Normandy beaches - codenamed Sword, Juno and Gold - while the Americans invaded two - Omaha and Utah.

No matter that this will be the last time that most Normandy veterans will be making what, to them, is tantamount to a pilgrimage.

No matter that the Normandy Veterans' Association has decided that this anniversary will be its last hurrah before, with great sadness, it closes down later this year.

The Queen will just have to watch it all on the telly. Because the French President has not invited her to join the commemorations. And a head of state can only go where he or she is invited by another head of state.

Windsor Castle may have rolled out its finest red carpet for Mr Sarkozy and his glamorous wife, Carla Bruni. But that was last year. The Queen has not been asked to next week's events and nor has any other member of the Royal Family.

The Queen travels light compared to most world leaders. She is, for example, the only head of a major industrialised nation not to have her own jet. She does not come surrounded by hundreds of men with suits, sunglasses, guns and talking cufflinks. It would not be difficult to accommodate her logistically.

But, in protocol terms, she - or the Prince of Wales - would be a serious obstacle to Mr Sarkozy's chief objective: a one-on-one love-in with Barack Obama, the man of the moment.
Barack Obama andNicolas Sarkozy: The French president has been branded 'Sarko the American' over his attempts to curry favour with Washington

If the Queen or the Prince turned up, Mr Sarkozy would have to divide his attentions between British-Commonwealth events and the commemorations in the American sector. As things stand, he can enjoy a whole day of uninterrupted ' face-time' with Mr Obama in front of the world's media.

French state television has announced that it will devote most of June 6 to a live Normandy broadcast called Barack Obama On The Invasion Beaches.


For the British and Canadian veterans of all those bloody encounters - from Pegasus Bridge to the carnage on the beaches, the horrific Battle of Caen, the massacres in the hedgerows and the Falaise Gap - and for all the relatives of those who never came home, this is a kick in the teeth.

There will still be rapturous welcomes for our old chaps throughout the region, of course. Although the Normandy campaign killed more French civilians than Allied troops, the locals have always been extremely grateful to their liberators.

At every town hall, there will be a vin d'honneur for men like George French, a young rifleman with the 2nd Battalion, an individual's Royal Rifles. He was just 18 when he waded ashore on Juno Beach with his 30-strong platoon in June 1944. By the end of the war, just three of that platoon were left. He is going back next week to remember the other 27.

Yesterday, I received a call from George's wife, Shirley, who wanted further information following a recent D-Day article I had written. Then George came on the line. 'What I want to know,' he asked, 'is where will I be able to see our Queen?'

Marching past her on the 60th anniversary of D-Day, he explained, remains one of his proudest moments. 'She's one of us,' he added.

Not this year, she isn't. The most senior figure at the Normandy Veterans' Association's final march through Normandy will be a junior defence minister called Kevan Jones.

Britain will not be without representation on D-Day. Unlike his Monarch, the Prime Minister and some of his New Labour ministers will be in Normandy, having requested last-minute invitations. Until a few weeks ago, the British Government had expressed no interest in this anniversary, arguing that it recognises only 25th, 50th, 60th and 100th anniversaries of major events.

Following the Daily Mail's campaign to mark the 65th on the grounds that it will be the final bow for the Normandy veterans, the Government suddenly promised funding for returning veterans. And having heard that Barack Obama was now planning to attend events in France, Mr Brown was determined not to be left out.

Everyone wants to be best friends with the most popular politician on Earth. Mr Brown asked President Sarkozy if he could be included. But, aware of the 11th-hour nature of his own request, the Prime Minister did not seek an invitation for the Queen - even though her officials have made it clear that she would gladly accept one.

So, Mr Brown is now expected at a British church service and may join other international delegations - including a contingent of German politicians - for a big 'International Ceremony For Peace' at the town of Ste Mere Eglise in the former American sector.
2004 memories: British veterans from the Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry have their picture taken during a visit to Asnelles beach in Normandy for the 60th anniversary

2004 memories: British veterans from the Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry pose during a visit to Asnelles beach in Normandy for the 60th anniversary

As things stand, there are no plans for Mr Brown to visit any of the beaches actually liberated by British troops. As far as British veterans are concerned, it is a very poor show.

So, the French government is not entirely at fault in this fiasco. The British government must take part of the blame for ignoring the entire event until Gordon Brown realised that Mr Obama was on his way.

It is, simply, yet another illustration that our new political class has little time for history. Mr Brown had not imagined that anyone would be too bothered by the 65th anniversary of a long-gone battle when there were Euro-elections taking place in the same week.

Neither Mr Sarkozy nor Mr Obama nor Mr Brown were born when 300,000 Allied servicemen launched that stupendous assault on occupied Europe.

The Queen, on the other hand, remembers it vividly. Her generation were in those landing craft. Her father even had to dissuade Winston Churchill from joining the invasion himself. She will remember the excitement and euphoria which swept the nation.

If any national head of state belongs on those beaches on June 6 with those gallant survivors, it is the one leader who not only appreciates their efforts but understands what it means to them.

But it's not too late. The address, Mr Sarkozy, is Buckingham Palace, London SW1A 1AA.


Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... d-war.html

See also: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... t-act.html



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Re: France does it again.

Post by old-timer » May 27, 2009, 3:53 pm

The Queen travels light compared to most world leaders. She is, for example, the only head of a major industrialised nation not to have her own jet. She does not come surrounded by hundreds of men with suits, sunglasses, guns and talking cufflinks. It would not be difficult to accommodate her logistically
she is the best..ever.

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Re: France does it again.

Post by Aardvark » May 27, 2009, 4:10 pm

Read the History of Thailand in the second World War and see how the Brits, Aussies, Indians and Chinese all liberated Thailand, and when the fighting was over the Yanks walked in and raised there flag as the saviours of the nation. Nothing new here :D

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Re: France does it again.

Post by Aardvark » May 27, 2009, 4:15 pm

Sorry got carried away :D meant to say that not only did the Brits beat them in every War they ever had, But saved them in all the others :D chok dee :D

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Re: France does it again.

Post by trubrit » May 27, 2009, 5:00 pm

Please lets not turn this into a "Who won the war" battle.The truth on that is simply , we all did. together , united in arms. None of the nations involved could have succeeded without the others.Lets concentrate our remarks to the ignorant Sarkozy (Can that really be a French name?) and his attempts to get in bed with Obama.Can the US president be so blind he cannot see that? If he can and ignores his true allies then he is just as ignorant as the French twit. Maybe our Queen Elizabeth can play them at the same game. No more invites to Buckingham Palace for either of the bedfellows. Unfortunately protocol forbids Her Majesty from commenting on matters like this, but her loyal citizens can. I hate frogs anyway. Nasty slimy, sticky creatures that jump all over the place and croak all night in their endeavors to mate. :-#

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Re: France does it again.

Post by saint » May 27, 2009, 5:26 pm

lets get real here , yes we saved the garlic ridden frogs ar~e twice , and liberated thier poxy country twice . but let us not forget , that they have never forgiven us for agincourt , waterloo , the battle of trafalger , and of course the burning of joan of arc . let us also not forget that britain , russia and china , ended up paying for the majority of the last war to the americans with the land lease deal set up by roosevelt . as far as im aware the frogs paid exactly f~ck all !!!!!!!! we may not be invited to the beaches where so much british blood was shed to free these grettins but im pretty sure that the world will never forget the truth . and if obamha was even half a man , with any decency in him he would not be attending either . let the sad frogs have thier party on thier own !!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

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Re: France does it again.

Post by aznyron » May 27, 2009, 5:33 pm

I hope no Frenchmen are reading this :D :D :D :D :D I was just a kid when they invaded Normandy
but I have a DVD movie by the name of IKE who with General Montgomery planned the invasion
I do want to say Sir Winston Himself put IKE in Charge of the invasion it worth while movie to see
if you can find it here

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Re: France does it again.

Post by LoongLee » May 27, 2009, 6:53 pm

Grown men crying are really quite distressing,,,,, Waaaaa! Waaaaa! Waaaa! Hollywood has stolen our glory, :(

Make the nasty ol' Americans stop,,,,,,,,,,,, :-({|= If Hollywood has such an influence over world culture that distresses you all,,, STOP watching. Your own countries film and theater can produce whatever they desire, do it.

Waaaa ! Waaaa! Waaaa ! The Americans made us pay for all the aid and supplies they provided. :cry: That's only partial payment,,,, the debt for multiple thousands of Americans buried all over the world can not be repaid. If the Europeans had united against Hitler instead of appeasing him, millions of lives would have been saved.

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Re: France does it again.

Post by BobHelm » May 27, 2009, 7:56 pm

While I might agree with your comments on the Hollywood issue (fiction is fiction and requires to be entertaining & interesting to the audience it is aimed at and has no responsibility to contain even a shred of the truth) I cannot agree with..
If the Europeans had united against Hitler instead of appeasing him, millions of lives would have been saved.
You (because we have talked about it before) know this is incorrect. England & France were totally unprepared for war from an arms or people point of view even when they entered it, let alone before that. Indeed many people in authority (in UK, France & USA) believed that Hitler was an acceptable face of dictatorship when compared to Stalin and were more than happy to turn a blind eye to many of the things he did as long as he protected everyone from Uncle Jo.....
Do not forget that USA entered the war because its interests in the Pacific were threatened by Hilters' ally Japan not for European reasons...
All that being said I am very surprised by some of the racialist comments posted on this thread. I have been lucky enough to work in various parts of the world with a huge variety of different nationalities. While I would agree that many nationalities do tend to display certain traits - due to years of their culture & climate - I have yet to find one race that I found completely despicable or one where I found every member of it delightful...
People are people, good & bad both - anything else is a problem in the viewers head....

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Re: France does it again.

Post by trubrit » May 27, 2009, 8:06 pm

Well it looks as though even the mods are prepared to take this off subject so let me make my position completely clear about France. Lovely country, shame about the people. :lol:

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Re: France does it again.

Post by old-timer » May 27, 2009, 8:10 pm

the best thing about france is the eurotunnel... back to england....... \:D/

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Re: France does it again.

Post by BobHelm » May 27, 2009, 8:14 pm

While I might agree with you about the inhabitants of Paris Val, I have found nothing is further from the truth when staying in the lesser visited places. I once had to unexpectedly spend a long weekend in St. Etiene at a time when all hotels were full, I stayed (at no charge) in 2 different people's homes & the skittle alley of a bar. I could not have wished to meet more generous or charming people....

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Re: France does it again.

Post by jackspratt » May 27, 2009, 8:24 pm

LoongLee wrote:Grown men crying are really quite distressing,,,,, Waaaaa! Waaaaa! Waaaa! Hollywood has stolen our glory, :(

Make the nasty ol' Americans stop,,,,,,,,,,,, :-({|= If Hollywood has such an influence over world culture that distresses you all,,, STOP watching. Your own countries film and theater can produce whatever they desire, do it.

Waaaa ! Waaaa! Waaaa ! The Americans made us pay for all the aid and supplies they provided. :cry: That's only partial payment,,,, the debt for multiple thousands of Americans buried all over the world can not be repaid. If the Europeans had united against Hitler instead of appeasing him, millions of lives would have been saved.
Another Hollywood view of history. :^o

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Re: France does it again.

Post by jimboLV » May 27, 2009, 8:34 pm

Hey Trubrit, don't knock the French. The very first true love of my life was a little French girl (OK she was from Canada, but still French descent). We shacked up for my last two years of college and I have never known such bliss, until now of course.

To get back on topic, don't be too hard on Obama. He is still feeling his way around on the diplomatic front. Remember, even though he is an American, he comes from a vastly different culture than any of our former Presidents. He probably doesn't have a clue about the affront to the British by this event. One would think that his State Department would have clued him in but who runs the State Department? I don't think Hilary has Obama's best interests at heart. Just my opinion.

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Re: France does it again.

Post by jingjai » May 27, 2009, 8:54 pm

This thread reminds of two kids in the playground, "my Dad can beat your Dad up".
Which country did what doesn't matter, let's look at the Marshall Plan after the war:
The Marshall Plan (from its enactment, officially the European Recovery Program, ERP) was the primary plan of the United States for rebuilding and creating a stronger foundation for the countries of Western Europe, and repelling communism after World War II. The initiative was named for Secretary of State George Marshall and was largely the creation of State Department officials, especially William L. Clayton and George F. Kennan. George Marshall spoke of the administration's desire to help European recovery in his address at Harvard University in June 1947.

The reconstruction plan, developed at a meeting of the participating European states, was established on June 5, 1947. It offered the same aid to the USSR and its allies, but they did not accept it. The plan was in operation for four years beginning in April 1948. During that period some 13 billion in economic and technical assistance were given to help the recovery of the European countries that had joined in the Organization for European Economic Co-operation.

By the time the plan had come to completion, the economy of every participant state, with the exception of Germany, had grown well past pre-war levels. Over the next two decades, many regions of Western Europe would enjoy unprecedented growth and prosperity. The Marshall Plan has also long been seen as one of the first elements of European integration, as it erased tariff trade barriers and set up institutions to coordinate the economy on a continental level.
And who did the recovery money go to:
Map of Cold-War era Europe showing countries that received Marshall Plan aid. The red columns show the relative amount of total aid per nation.

The Marshall Plan aid was divided amongst the participant states on a roughly per capita basis. A larger amount was given to the major industrial powers, as the prevailing opinion was that their resuscitation was essential for general European revival. Somewhat more aid per capita was also directed towards the Allied nations, with less for those that had been part of the Axis or remained neutral. The table below shows Marshall Plan aid by country and year (in millions of dollars) from The Marshall Plan.
Country 1948/49
($ millions) ↓ 1949/50
($ millions) ↓ 1950/51
($ millions) ↓ Cumulative
($ millions) ↓
'48-'49 '49/'50 '50/'51 Cumalative
Austria 232 166 70 468
Belgium and Luxembourg 195 222 360 777
Denmark 103 87 195 385
France 1085 691 520 2296
Germany 510 438 500 1448
Greece 175 156 45 366
Iceland 6 22 15 43
Ireland 88 45 0 133
Italy and Trieste 594 405 205 1204
Netherlands 471 302 355 1128
Norway 82 90 200 372
Portugal 0 0 70 70
Sweden 39 48 260 347
Switzerland 0 0 250 250
Turkey 28 59 50 137
United Kingdom 1316 921 1060 3297
Totals 4,924 3,652 4,155 12,721
And a humorous side note:
Secretary of Commerce W. Averell Harriman’s press aide, Alfred Friendly, wrote a humorous operetta about the Marshall Plan during its first year; one of the lines in the operetta was: "Wines for Sale; will you swap / A little bit of steel for Chateau Neuf du Pape?"
More Marshall Plan info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

As far as the French go, well what would you expect from the arrogant ba5tards...respect :lol: .

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Re: France does it again.

Post by Galee » May 27, 2009, 9:11 pm

This topic is going off subject. The report posted by the newspaper journalist saw fit to bring in Hollywood was his way of highlighting the relationship between France,USA and the ROTW.
This topic is about how France has snubbed/ignored other countries involved in the anniversary of D-day.
Maybe a new topic titled, How Hollywood interprets History, might suit forum members who want to discuss other aspects that develope from that.

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Re: France does it again.

Post by jingjai » May 27, 2009, 10:48 pm

Maybe a new topic titled, How Hollywood interprets History...
Yes, let's go off topic for a bit, Galee.
Most famous of all is Saving Private Ryan, Spielberg's D-Day epic, which presents the Normandy landings as a U.S.- only affair, without a Brit or Canadian in sight.
I don't know who wrote the article that the above quote was taken from? But, obviously he hasn't seen Saving Private Ryan.
Saving Private Ryan is really about: "Following the Normandy Landings, a group of US soldiers go behind enemy lines to retrieve a paratrooper whose brothers have been killed in action." It is about one unit of American soldiers, not the entire invading force or the entire invasion.
The movie The Longest Day (one of the best WW II movies ever, IMO), http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056197/ covered the entire allied forces.
There are so many other examples of how Hollywood covered the war, if interested check 'em out here:
http://www.imdb.com/keyword/d-day/
or here:
http://www.imdb.com/find?s=all&q=D+Day&x=14&y=5

And yes, Hollywood can be slanted, so what's new, it's there money.

OK, let's go back to bashing the French :lol: .

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Re: France does it again.

Post by LoongLee » May 27, 2009, 11:56 pm

This ought to kill the topic and lock it up.....

BobH,,,,,, I don't care how may times we discuss it,, the fact is that Germany is in the middle of Europe and the europeans have the responsibility to maintain peace,, not America 5000 miles away. It was Europe's ballgame, especially in light of the previous war, and their responsibility to create a climate or institutions to prevent war. The fact is that even NATO would not exist without the US participation. Their ability or desire to arm sufficiently to resist The USSR and the Warsaw Pact was demonstrated time after time. They simply did not want to devote the GDP necessary to field advanced weapon systems and troop strength.

You state "England & France were totally unprepared for war from an arms or people point of view even when they entered it, let alone before that." That's not the US fault, we were going through the great depression also.

Germany rebuilt and rearmed between the wars, and Europe slept. France demanded and got incredibly heavy reparations from Germany against the US wishes, leading to another war 20 years later. Europe could have rearmed if Germany did. The will wasn't there. The statements by some that the US got in late are disingenuous at best, our interference in Europes affairs would have been seen as just that, meddling. And why should we get involved if the rest of Europe didn't think it important? It absolutely was in our best interest to delay.

And just to keep this on topic, even if only slightly,,,,, I have major problems with "Hollywood" and their interpretations of history, especially the way the VietNam War and American GI's were presented.. People leave the theater and that is the way they remember events,,,,, it is very dangerous but I don't have an answer ,,,, if we value free expression or speech how can we control it ???,,, LL

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Re: France does it again.

Post by farang » May 28, 2009, 12:59 am

jingjai wrote:
OK, let's go back to bashing the French :lol: .
ok

why have the french got tree lined avenues???

its so the germans can march in the shade

ImageImageImage

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Re: France does it again.

Post by arjay » May 28, 2009, 1:32 am

An excellent OP Galee. =D>

It's disappointing however that some subsequent posters can't keep to the original topic.

I do hope that Obama's advisors have him standing on the correct beach. (It would be a further insult if he was on a British or Canadian beach.) ;) I guess Sarkozy is just a small minded politician with bigger ambitions.. ;)

In defence of the French people, I understand they still tend the many war graves/cemeteries with care and attention, even after so many years.

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