China breaks its word over Hong Kong

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papafarang
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Re: China troll

Post by papafarang » January 19, 2021, 5:33 am

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:
January 17, 2021, 9:52 am
papafarang wrote:
January 17, 2021, 7:11 am
Up to you , could be the us or the UK . could be Canada ,Israel ,Saudis ,aussies .take your pick . but China definitely has not involved itself in bombing foreign countries.
For many decades, China was not capable of it although they may have done some bombing in the Korean War.

Anyway, let's call a truce. This is going nowhere.
You have to go back to the Korean war :lol: ,might as well go back to the opium wars which brings us back to hong Kong. The part of China we stole .let's not forget there was no democracy at all in hong Kong until it was returned to Chinese communist party. Before 1997 hong kong residents under British rule Chinese had no rights to assembly, procession and association. You need to get out of your old colonial way of thinking , hong Kong is China ,its no longer any of our concern. As I said write a letter to the communist party to let them know you object ,flapping your gums to us will not make any difference at all. Meanwhile some poor goat farmers sitting on a hillside in Afghanistan tending his flock will go home to find his house and family have been vaporised by a drone ,with an announcement that america has just killed a ' top Taliban commander' again .


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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » January 31, 2021, 11:36 pm

There is more fuel to be added to the fire: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-i ... hinas-game
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » April 6, 2021, 12:17 am

Martin Lee, veteran Hong Kong politician, who has clashed with Britain and China in the past over the future of Hong Kong, and its legal status, is one of the convicted democratic leaders awaiting his fate. Let's see how lenient the People's Republic will be. Mr. Lee is a very gentle man. I met him a few times when he was in Toronto on speaking tours when the U.K. was negotiating with China over Hong Kong's future.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/hong-kong ... -1.5972374

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Lee
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by papafarang » April 6, 2021, 8:17 am

there was never going to be democrocy in China or hong Kong . 90% of Chinese support the Chinese government so talking about democracy was just pie in the sky.thing is the few freedoms they had has been wasted by a tiny minority. I guess they just have to accept that they're chinese living in China. The good news is if they want democracy they can always move to the UK , they can give up their family , culture and blend into the melting pot . it is what it is.
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by AlexO » April 6, 2021, 8:30 am

papafarang wrote:
April 6, 2021, 8:17 am
there was never going to be democrocy in China or hong Kong . 90% of Chinese support the Chinese government so talking about democracy was just pie in the sky.thing is the few freedoms they had has been wasted by a tiny minority. I guess they just have to accept that they're chinese living in China. The good news is if they want democracy they can always move to the UK , they can give up their family , culture and blend into the melting pot . it is what it is.
I really would question your 90% of the people support the Government Dean. Mainland China is very much like most of Russia and quite a few SEA Countries where very few are very wealthy, a few more are in the doing well bracket but most are still working for day to day survival wages or not much more. China has a huge internal security system that prevents any kind of dissent against the Party leaders. Support is hardly the word for scared to object. Look what has happened in HK when they started to complain and demonstrate.

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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » April 6, 2021, 9:24 am

Mr. Lee is a very gentle, intelligent and articulate man doing what he can in the face of a repressive odious regime.
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by papafarang » April 6, 2021, 9:43 am

AlexO wrote:
April 6, 2021, 8:30 am
papafarang wrote:
April 6, 2021, 8:17 am
there was never going to be democrocy in China or hong Kong . 90% of Chinese support the Chinese government so talking about democracy was just pie in the sky.thing is the few freedoms they had has been wasted by a tiny minority. I guess they just have to accept that they're chinese living in China. The good news is if they want democracy they can always move to the UK , they can give up their family , culture and blend into the melting pot . it is what it is.
I really would question your 90% of the people support the Government Dean. Mainland China is very much like most of Russia and quite a few SEA Countries where very few are very wealthy, a few more are in the doing well bracket but most are still working for day to day survival wages or not much more. China has a huge internal security system that prevents any kind of dissent against the Party leaders. Support is hardly the word for scared to object. Look what has happened in HK when they started to complain and demonstrate.
Chinese have about as much interest in democracy as we have in Communism. Very few are weathly ,a few more doing well and the rest just surviving. Sounds like america to me, in fact it sounds like every country in the world. only 40 years ago 1.2 billion of them lived in extreme poverty mainly due to westerners trying to rip China apart seems to escape people. I was wrong about the 90% ,it is in fact 95.5% according to Harvard university
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » April 6, 2021, 9:55 am

Mao's Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution were responsible for most of China's woes. He did a good job of self-isolating China from most of the rest of the world.
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by jackspratt » April 6, 2021, 10:06 am

Anecdotely, I would have thought Deng Xioaping's opening up to the west would have played a major part in lifting the Chinese out of poverty.

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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by papafarang » April 6, 2021, 10:24 am

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:
April 6, 2021, 9:55 am
Mao's Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution were responsible for most of China's woes. He did a good job of self-isolating China from most of the rest of the world.
Get a grip , China has been plundered for centuries , ever herd of the east India company, opium wars. That made plenty of people rich. Chairman Mao was just a loony ,dead and buried along with his fruitcake ideas.China has come a long way since those days. So why are you wanting to talk history ,were talking about the future . If 95.5 % of Chinese are happy about not being in a democracy its up to them. Its not like the Chinese are trying to change us is it . when the USSR collapsed we went on about how the west crushed the union with finance without bombs. Well the Chinese were paying great attention and now know cash rules.so they learned to play our game ,and they're better at it. The fact there is nearly twice as many billionaires in China than there is in america shows they learned well.
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by papafarang » April 6, 2021, 10:27 am

jackspratt wrote:
April 6, 2021, 10:06 am
Anecdotely, I would have thought Deng Xioaping's opening up to the west would have played a major part in lifting the Chinese out of poverty.
Totally agree with that
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by tamada » April 6, 2021, 10:37 am

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:
April 6, 2021, 9:55 am
Mao's Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution were responsible for most of China's woes. He did a good job of self-isolating China from most of the rest of the world.
In the 1970's, Nixon thought it would be a good idea to ease relationships with China if only to get a better handle on Communist expansionism and a counterweight to the Soviet Union. Then the rich and powerful western industrialists hijacked the show with their "great untapped 1 billion people marketplace" spiel. Problem was, the west had bugger all that the Chinese needed. But they copied just about everything the benevolent but naive west sold or loaned them.

The rich and powerful western industrialists then cashed in on the "billions" that China did have: their labor force. Since they could copy just about anything, lets just let them build it cheaply, put some quality control on it, import it and kill our home manufacturing, self-sufficiency and independence.

Once Clinton conferred most favored nation trading status on them, like watching a beautiful sunrise and finding yourself standing in dogshit, the moment was lost.

I worked in China for over eight years back in the 1980's, helping them find the oil they don't have. That was way before it became fashionable to work in China and keeping those buggers in their back yards wasn't such a bad idea.

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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by papafarang » April 6, 2021, 10:53 am

So Nixon is responsible :lol: . yes it seems like we happy to enjoy our dirt cheap products from China and we get to whinge about how Chinese suffer from low incomes.
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by jackspratt » April 6, 2021, 11:36 am

Bit hard to brush aside Mao's 27 year rule of China when looking at the plight of the 1.2b living in extreme poverty up until the late 70s.

After the opening up it was a marriage of convenience - China needed the west so they could industrialise, and the west was quite happy to get their consumer goods manufactured cheaper.

A bit like Playboy magazine, I guess - who was exploiting who?

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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by tamada » April 6, 2021, 12:03 pm

papafarang wrote:
April 6, 2021, 10:53 am
So Nixon is responsible :lol: . yes it seems like we happy to enjoy our dirt cheap products from China and we get to whinge about how Chinese suffer from low incomes.
I never suggested that Nixon's to blame. I simply stated historical fact with regard to why he engaged in the initial rapprochement. Clinton's commercial nod is closer to the feeding the great, western consumer frenzy that seems to be floating your boat this morning.

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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by papafarang » April 6, 2021, 12:16 pm

jackspratt wrote:
April 6, 2021, 11:36 am
Bit hard to brush aside Mao's 27 year rule of China when looking at the plight of the 1.2b living in extreme poverty up until the late 70s.

After the opening up it was a marriage of convenience - China needed the west so they could industrialise, and the west was quite happy to get their consumer goods manufactured cheaper.

A bit like Playboy magazine, I guess - who was exploiting who?
no one is brushing it aside , june 1981 even the communist party blamed the great leap forward for the millions of deaths through starvation. But that is history and a lesson learned. so what about modern china ? . playboy ? i think you will find it was the publishers that exploited everyone.
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by papafarang » April 6, 2021, 12:27 pm

tamada wrote:
April 6, 2021, 12:03 pm
papafarang wrote:
April 6, 2021, 10:53 am
So Nixon is responsible :lol: . yes it seems like we happy to enjoy our dirt cheap products from China and we get to whinge about how Chinese suffer from low incomes.
I never suggested that Nixon's to blame. I simply stated historical fact with regard to why he engaged in the initial rapprochement. Clinton's commercial nod is closer to the feeding the great, western consumer frenzy that seems to be floating your boat this morning.
im suggesting nixon is to blame for letting the Gennie out the bottle. yes the western gluttony , the fact that western consumers continue to buy, we blame the chinese for that too.
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by Laan Yaa Mo » April 6, 2021, 4:58 pm

I still prefer Martin Lee's approach to Hong Kong.
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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by tamada » April 6, 2021, 5:23 pm

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:
April 6, 2021, 4:58 pm
I still prefer Martin Lee's approach to Hong Kong.
I think it's called farting against thunder.

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Re: China breaks its word over Hong Kong

Post by tamada » April 6, 2021, 6:34 pm

papafarang wrote:
April 6, 2021, 12:27 pm
tamada wrote:
April 6, 2021, 12:03 pm
papafarang wrote:
April 6, 2021, 10:53 am
So Nixon is responsible :lol: . yes it seems like we happy to enjoy our dirt cheap products from China and we get to whinge about how Chinese suffer from low incomes.
I never suggested that Nixon's to blame. I simply stated historical fact with regard to why he engaged in the initial rapprochement. Clinton's commercial nod is closer to the feeding the great, western consumer frenzy that seems to be floating your boat this morning.
im suggesting nixon is to blame for letting the Gennie out the bottle. yes the western gluttony , the fact that western consumers continue to buy, we blame the chinese for that too.
Thus the avarice of commerce usurps the political expedient... 'twas ever thus.

Talking as an outsider, I reckon human beings have a lot to answer for.

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