Work permits and business ownership

[panick]

OK Guys here's the plan I'm in the throws of selling 1 of 2 houses I have in the UK (keeping one as a back-up ) paying off all debts etc and going to try and make a go of it in Thailand (Udon of course)
Any info/links on work permits,do's and don'ts etc would be greatly appreciated...thanks..Nick.

[BKKSTAN]

OK Guys here's the plan I'm in the throws of selling 1 of 2 houses I have in the UK (keeping one as a back-up ) paying off all debts etc and going to try and make a go of it in Thailand (Udon of course)
Any info/links on work permits,do's and don'ts etc would be greatly appreciated...thanks..Nick.

I hope there is more to your plan than that,otherwise you might be a candidate for a windfall!Wind falling where your money used to be What do you actually propose doing while you are here?

[panick]

Was thinking of a bit of property development,buying,fixing up,selling/renting but aimed more at the thai market not at farangs more of a long term investment that'll pay off in a few years as values increase,also same with cars/trucks etc and building the odd custom bike and trike ..... a man of many talents who gets bored sitting around

[BKKSTAN]

Are you sure you understand the Thai market enough .Values of properties ,autos etc. are nothing like the West.There is no comparative properties that are consistent enough to gage proper investment and resale prices.Thais are not interested in second hand properties for many cultural reasons,preferring to buy new everything!
Secondhand markets are almost exclusively for falangs!!The biggest mistake that most falangs make in Thailand is assuming making business in Thailand is similar to the West!!!Some think they can compete with Thais and THEY CAN NOT...period Nor will it be allowed if there is an inkling of success.
If you need to stay busy,I suggest you scale down to a hobby and not invest in a personal business!
It is not just a joke when you hear''The way to make a small fortune in Thailand,is to start with a large fortune!!"
The forces against you are to great:You will not ever get the best price,honest confederates,quality materials or workmanship!You will never be the preferred source because of trust and loyalty issues revolving aound ''face''!You will be undermined by the jealous Thais including neighbors,competitors,landlords and the authorities at the first sign of success!You will be raped with a smile by your Thai associates of your expertise.You will find the contracts between you and Thais are meaningless unless they are used to your disadvantage!Gaurantees and warranties,contracts to protect you and all verbal agreements are as worthless as used toilet paper!
As a falang,your job in Thailand is to sow,not reap You have no power in Thailand,nor will you find justice for yourself when(not ''if'')you are cheated!

[panick]

OUCH
You don't recommend it then Stan ......thanks for the sound advice,I spent the last 3 months looking in to it all whilst I was in Udon.Market values etc were looked at from a Thai prospective not a western so i'll never be rich but if I can make a little to subsidise an income I'll be happy The G/F's business's are now all sorted and make enough to support the both of us but I want earn a little more my own way with something else,hence the plan and back-up plan (still keeping the 1 house in the UK)

[BKKSTAN]

Wishing you all the best,panick

[rickfarang]

First off, Stan's observations square with my limited observations. You will be at a disadvantage from day one. If you have cash to burn, and you don't need to earn a living, you will be ok.

[Dakoda]

A news item from the BBC web site Timely

[businessman]

Frances is one of an estimated 41,000 Britons currently living in Thailand, according to research by the IPPR think tank.

Wow,thats a whole lot more Brits than i imagined were here.

[Doc]

Doing the things that you are wanting to do will make it difficult, if not impossible to get a work permit.

Getting a work permit is a complicated process - and requires financial statements, along with proof that you are not taking work away from a Thai national.

Believe that you might be better off if you find yourself a different game plan.

[Prenders88]

Frances is one of an estimated 41,000 Britons currently living in Thailand, according to research by the IPPR think tank.

Wow,thats a whole lot more Brits than i imagined were here.

They are the lucky ones, that have made a go of it in Thailand.
That's just the tip of the iceberg, last year 462,000 jumped ship from the UK.
This year it's 500,000 leaving stealth taxes, radical Islam in a street near you.
Left wing council's forcing kids to eat Halal meat in their school dinners, East European "Squareheads" taking all all the jobs and driving down wages and conditions.

Chronic housing shortage, and the social housing full of white trash chavvy single mothers, and 2nd and 3rd generation afro/caribs.
High property prices, in London, and if your a first time buyer, you need to earn ฃ60,000 a year to afford the loan repayments on a one bedroom flat overlooking a sink estate. Look at the comments on the BBC website.
High prices/Taxes and low value, and the rotten food and weather. Britain has now become a sh*t bucket.

[panick]

Well thanks for the encouragement lads
Just kidding
ANY posting positive or negative is more than welcome
I'm your typical English man who doesn't want to sit around all day doing F##k all day and realise that any income I make will be little or nothing compared to what I can do in the UK.
Thailand and its people hold a great place in my heart and life which is why I spend as much time here as possible.
Having travelled around most of the country I have found that the most aimable and respectful people live in and around Udon (that goes for the ex-pats too! ) SO......This is why and where I would like to make a new start and hopefully a long future for myself and Gf/Wife.....I would rather be Poor and Happy than Rich and Lonely
99.99% of my friends in the LOS are Thai and I have learnt a lot about the culture,beliefs and ethics here so I realise that I will never be a rich man (well I will be to start with! ) but I still want to give it a try ......
If all else fails I still have a nice home in the UK to fall back on, so my "back door" is always open and I can start again
So how about a little bit of encouragement instead of "Poo-Pooing" (Val will like that one!) my game plan.....Damn Why do I have to live live so close to France.....Thats another bottle of red wine gone

[Doc]

So how about a little bit of encouragement instead of "Poo-Pooing" (Val will like that one!) my game plan.

I spect that everyone here would give you encouragement if they thought that what you were proposing would work - even moderately so.

Most of us have heard all of the "false promises" of what is attainable here in LOS - and we are, as a result, realists.

Personally, I would rather be given the straight facts and a healthy dose of reality than having someone blow smoke up my arse.

Over the years, I have seen a lot of people start businesses, only to see them fail rather quickly. As someone that has started two very successful businesses back in the States, I like to think that I have a rather strong sense of business. I haven't seen anything here that would be a good business investment with a minimum of cash outlay that could offer any decent returns. As a result, I have had to work for others here as opposed to being totally independent, as I would truly like to be.

[oldfield]

Do...
rent at first (for living)
buy a car
spend a year just looking
market research for whatever you decide
have a business plan

Don't...
have a joint account with wife/gf
start a car rental company
open/buy a bar
build your own house
have partners you don't know
have Thai partners
make your wife/gf your manager

These are just imo and maybe the more experienced forumites/udonites can add to this list.

If I were you, I would look at something different like maybe a sheep farm or a fig plantation or something like that, maybe even try catering towards the 50000+ falangs in Thailand. Udon desperately needs a good proper English/French style bakery - maybe that's worth a pop. But don't compete with the other saturated businesses like care hire and bars - they are money pits.

As for buying and selling houses - I don't know much about this but there are a ton of houses in Udon for sale already - It's a buyers market.

Whatever you do - remember the golden rule - location location location.

Good luck mate and I wish you a successful time in Udon.

[lee]

Was thinking of a bit of property development,buying,fixing up,selling/renting but aimed more at the thai market not at farangs

Forget the selling part, concentrate on renting, and aim for the farang market not Thai. There is a serious shortage of rental properties in Udon and a gap in the market for this type of business. Find run down properties, do them up, furnish them and add all appliances such as fridge, TV, air-con and even plates dishes and cutlery. Then you can rent them out for short and long-term rental.

You could also consider the condo market; maybe you could convert the 3-4 storey town houses into condos and furnish them for renting. Anything downtown would sell like hot cakes.

You will need to register a company 49% farang 51% Thai. Then apply for a business visa in your home country, and then when in Thailand you can apply for a work visa as manager/owner position.

[laphanphon]

I am guessing you want something to do, and that generates money, as opposed to something that just generates money. Lee's idea seems like an excellent one, since you seem experienced in that field already, and is a bit safer with some knowledge, except for the partner part. if just wanting to generate money, rentals in home country, turned over to broker for their 5-10 % for collecting and maintaining property would suit my extremely lazy butt fine. also a very safe way to generate funds for living here. though i suspect you are an active person and wish to continue and have a working retirement here. just have as much paper protection as you can get with the partner idea. also expect it to be scutinized by authorities and competition, as they are starting to look very hard at these arrangements, where in the past, they didn't seem to concern themselves.

[BKKSTAN]

Here is a scenario to contemplate referring to security and justice!

You own a business in Thailand,your wife is Thai,but doesn't come from a powerful wealthy family(or course not,or she wouldn't be married to you!)in the area or worse yet ,she doesn't come from the province!You have read and understand all the rules about doing business in Thailand and the laws involved,of which you are in complete compliance!!
A local person of authority comes to your business and orders you pay large contributions,cease or alter operations etc. etc.(you have done nothing wrong)!!

What do you do??

[businessman]

Setting up the property business is fine and easy,BUT if you were successful,then troubles would start.It is a sector run by the big guys.If you are happy to play the game there is no way you can be "Mr nice guy".Thai style is to remove the opposition.

[lee]

I personally don

[BKKSTAN]

Think positive,then add prudence!!!If you do not understand the pitfalls,you are failure waiting to happen.If you don't need to make money to live here,invest some other way besides a business!Just take up a hobby and enjoy your retirement while you learn the ''ropes'' about living,working and making a business in Thailand You could even make the business a hobby without focusing on making money!
It would be interesting to find out how many falangs are able to stay within the confines of their work permit and still make money!!The slack given could not only disappear overnight,you could wind up in police custody!!
If you do and need some help,remember ''think positive''

Everyone has his opinion and experience in Thailand and everyone has their personal attributes that could help or hinder them in their relationships .both personal and businesswise.The pitfalls have more need of understanding for a relative new or naive expat,IMO,than the encouragement to enter the pit!